I have a confession...

[Leothebear]

Recently Mrs LtB and I attended "An evening with Michael Portillo" in Horsham. There I've said it.

When he was a high powered minister with Mrs T I loathed him for his arrogance and like many took great delight when he famously lost his seat in 1997. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/19 ... vatives.uk

I was surprised by his humility and dignity in defeat (see in the link). The bugger blunted my pleasure because I was impressed with him and what I wanted him to be enraged and aggressive.

That defeat, rather than damage him, seemed to chill him. Later in his relaxed performances on 'This week' and subsequent role as presenter of his railway journeys has seen him blossom as a TV presenter. It has become a programme I now rarely miss.

The evening with MP was really very entertaining. It's not easy being live on stage but MP was candid, friendly, amusing and when answering the many questions put to him, showed he really was an enlightened guy. (I was particularly impressed when he said that questions would have to stop as he had to get the 21.44 back to London Victoria).

So there it is. Sorry but now I really like Michael Portillo.

[bungeejumper]

Agreed, Portillo is a complete gentleman, as he proved during his more than gracious speech on the night of his election defeat in 1997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvWE6V9ulE ). And fascinating company, by the look of him. I'd say he was ready to quit politics by the time he got ousted - and probably a good thing, because he'd have been hounded even more if he'd been running transport these days.

When I was at university, we once had Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford addressing the students' union in a debate on the same stage where Black Sabbath had been ripping it up the previous night. She, of course, was a notorious little sexual-bigot woman who had launched all sorts of legal actions for blasphemy, obscenity and just about everything that didn't fit her tiny little blue-rinse mind, and he was a sober-faced fool with a heavily religious attitude who had helped her to get where she was.

So we all assembled in the hall, ready to take this ridiculous pair of 1950s throwbacks to pieces. How hard could it be? We were in for a surprise. Longford was every bit as useless as he promised to be, but Whitehouse could out-argue just about anything and anyone. She was still a bigot, but she knew her ground (limited in scope although it was), and she also knew how to throw a stun grenade, such as declaring to the students that she thought sex was great, the more of it the better please. Anybody who thought she was going to submit to a storm of verbal rotten tomato-throwing was going to go home disappointed.

Rather impressive, in its way. And a valuable reminder to all of us that when it comes to debate, it isn't always what you say, it's the way that you say it.

BJ

[pds2008]

The only nagging worry about my new found admiration for Portillo is that I do not want to repeat it in the future with Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson. I wish my loathing of those tossers to be life long!

[Rhyd6]

pds2008 I echo your sentiments entirely but my three tossers are Corbyn, McDonnell and Thornberry.

R6

[Lootman]

The only nagging worry about my new found admiration for Portillo is that I do not want to repeat it in the future with Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson. I wish my loathing of those tossers to be life long!

Is the term "loathing" appropriate for someone whom you do not know and have not met, based purely on nothing more than the fact that you disagree with them on some political issues?

Didn't Portillo just prove that to you? Isn't that the same kind of intolerance than got Rees-Mogg into an incident the other day?

I think Corbyn is wrong on just about everything but I don't hate or loath him. I met him once at a party in Islington when he had recently become my MP and I was perfectly civil to him even though I thought his views were unadulterated idiocy.

[scotia]

The only nagging worry about my new found admiration for Portillo is that I do not want to repeat it in the future with Gove, Rees Mogg and Johnson. I wish my loathing of those tossers to be life long!

Maybe you should wish the opposite - They could probably do a lot less damage if they were forcibly transmuted (by the voters) into commentators on great railway journeys.

[pds2008]

Hey Lootman

I just read the headline for Beerpib's Snug

"A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted banter and discussion..."

Calm down

[Lootman]

Hey Lootman

I just read the headline for Beerpib's Snug

"A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted banter and discussion..."

Calm down

It was a light-hearted inquiry into the derivation of the cited loathing.

Maybe you should calm down?

[Leothebear]

Are you guys Scousers by any chance?

[pds2008]

I was just having a joke about some cartoon-like posh tory politicians - clearly picked the wrong forum. Hey-ho

Anyway, I will confirm that I have never met any of the afore-mentioned gentlemen - and totally regret forming a negative opinion about them

Better move on to another light hearted discussion group......

[scotia]

I was just having a joke about some cartoon-like posh tory politicians - clearly picked the wrong forum. Hey-ho

This is a perfectly respectable spot for such jollity. How about picking alternative occupations for politicians that you would hope should be retired from their current job. Maybe Rees-Mogg should set up as a gentlemen's outfitter?

[UncleEbenezer]

I was just having a joke about some cartoon-like posh tory politicians - clearly picked the wrong forum. Hey-ho

This is a perfectly respectable spot for such jollity. How about picking alternative occupations for politicians that you would hope should be retired from their current job. Maybe Rees-Mogg should set up as a gentlemen's outfitter?

Obviously. The lead toffoons would be ideally suited to retreating to an ancestral residence (think, a castle in shropshire) to dote on their prizewinning pigs.

I recollect saying of Portaloo when he came out as socially-liberal, give him the job of shadow home secretary. I don't recollect exactly when that was, but one could date it by the other half of that thought: he'll run rings around Blunkett.

[didds]

Maybe Rees-Mogg should set up as a gentlemen's outfitter?

Or a pier foundation?

didds

[bungeejumper]

Maybe Rees-Mogg should set up as a gentlemen's outfitter?

Or a pier foundation?

I once worked (briefly) with his old dad, Lord William. A charming old geezer, although his judgment was slipping a bit. He used to say that Tony Blair was the best leader the Conservative Party never had.

Discuss.

BJ

[pds2008]

I can see Rees Mogg and Gove as a respectable pair of undertakers - though I am not sure I would leave Gove alone with the deceased.....

[UncleEbenezer]

He used to say that Tony Blair was the best leader the Conservative Party never had.

Discuss.

BJ

Several candidate explanations:

1. It's a myth you're reporting (though I certainly heard the remark, so someone must've said it).
2. It was a joke.
3. It was his dotage speaking.
4. The remark needs context.

If I had to bet on it, I think I'd put the humorous quip as first candidate.

[AleisterCrowley]

The lead toffoons would be ideally suited to retreating to an ancestral residence (think, a castle in Shropshire) to dote on their prizewinning pigs.


Not Shropshire, please...
Oddly enough, Jeremy Corbyn was brought up in a Shropshire mansion (Yew Tree Manor)

[bungeejumper]

He used to say that Tony Blair was the best leader the Conservative Party never had.

Discuss.

BJ

Several candidate explanations:

1. It's a myth you're reporting (though I certainly heard the remark, so someone must've said it).
2. It was a joke.
3. It was his dotage speaking.
4. The remark needs context.

If I had to bet on it, I think I'd put the humorous quip as first candidate.

Hate to burst the illusion, but I heard him say it several times, including in a speech at an investment dinner. So there's the context.

The old boy may have been losing it a bit by that stage, but he was very open-minded in the way that he assessed people, and he admired Blair's ability to lead and inspire. (All right, you're allowed to snigger at this point. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. )

Rees-Mogg, as Times editor (and possibly the greatest of them all ), is still remembered for attacking Mick Jagger's prison sentence for cannabis possession with the words: "Who breaks a butterfly upon a wheel?" Which infuriated Tunbridge Wells at the time, but which reflected a willingness to step outside the general perception and decide for himself/oneself. Which I think is where this thread came in?

BJ

[scotia]

Turning back to the track of alternative occupations, I'm sure Boris would make a perfect Circus Clown.
But I'm seeking a nomination for the politician most doomed to failure - you see there's currently an opening as the Scottish Football manager.

[bungeejumper]

Turning back to the track of alternative occupations, I'm sure Boris would make a perfect Circus Clown.
But I'm seeking a nomination for the politician most doomed to failure - you see there's currently an opening as the Scottish Football manager.

Like it. Great question. Surely Nicola would be a shoo-in?

"I know my predecessor said at the time that we would unconditionally accept the findings of the referee, but although it's two and a half years past the full-time whistle, the Scottish people are united in wanting another free vote on his ridiculous and biased decision. We are not re-writing history, we are redefining its retrospective parameters in relation to the emerging post-decision scenario (continued on page 94)....."

BJ