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Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

Including Financial Independence and Retiring Early (FIRE)
Quint
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Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175186

Postby Quint » October 20th, 2018, 1:25 pm

Hi,

Due to my previous thread being hijacked by those who wanted to start an active versus passive and income versus growth debate I have decided to start this as a new thread.

As I said before this I am posting for information only. It may be of interest or use to some. Please do not hijack this thread.

The goal of this portfolio is primarily to add some income to the top of a small DB pension that Mrs Quint will start to draw when she turns 60 in just over three years time. We have worked out the required income based on what she is currently living on now (and has been for the past three years, 8 months of which have been since FIRE at the end of Feb). The DB pension will meet about 50% of this income so the SIPP needs to provide the other 50%. Holidays and luxuries are provided for by a separate S&S ISA. Safety net of cash and bonds are held outside of the SIPP and would account for total loss of income from both SIPP and DB pension for 5 years. Once the DB and SIPP are being drawn on she will have seven years until the state pension kicks in. She will receive the full state pension.

SIPP is now fully invested, no additional money will be paid in but dividends will be reinvested for the next three years.

I have split the SIPP in to two elements, one to provide income to meet the requirement and one to provide some growth although this does provide some additional income which can be taken as extra income or reinvested in either the income or growth areas.

Currently the Income portfolio is (based on trailing yield) generating the income that will be required in 3 years time plus about 4% if I add the income from the growth portfolio this goes up to income required plus 15%. This is after deducting the platform fee which is capped at £200 p/a.

Once I had finished building the portfolio (this has taken nearly a year as the SIPP was combined from transferring in two separate pensions which came in six months apart) and is now split as below

Income = 62%
Growth = 36%
Cash = 2%

The detail of how this invested is below

Code: Select all

Income                             | % of Income Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
BT Group plc                       |                   3.9 |                  2.4
City Of London Investment Trust    |                  17.2 |                 10.6
CQS New City High Yield Fund       |                   8.0 |                  4.9
European Assets Trust              |                   4.0 |                  2.4
Henderson Far East Income Ltd      |                   8.4 |                  5.2
Imperial Brands                    |                   4.0 |                  2.5
Lowland Investment Company         |                   7.9 |                  4.8
Murray International Trust         |                   9.1 |                  5.6
National Grid                      |                   3.9 |                  2.4
North American Income Trust        |                   7.8 |                  4.8
Regional REIT Ltd                  |                   3.9 |                  2.4
Scottish American Investment Co    |                   8.1 |                  5.0
Standard Life Private Equity Trust |                   7.9 |                  4.9
Vodafone Group                     |                   5.9 |                  3.6
Total                              |                 100.0 |                 61.7
                                 


Code: Select all

Growth                                 | % of Growth Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
Finsbury Growth & Income Trust         |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Foreign & Colonial Investment Trust    |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Henderson Smaller Cos Investment Trust |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust     |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Witan Investment Trust                 |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Total                                  |                 100.0 |                 36.3
                                     

The plan was initially to hold only investment trusts but I did decide to add four direct share holdings but at a minimal capital value as part of the portfolio to boost income. This was because recent falls had pushed the dividend yields up to much higher levels than historical averages, all have been raising the dividends at a decent rate in recent years, I know BT have held the dividend this year but they have indicated that next year it should start to rise again albeit probably not at the pace seen in recent years.

Two top ups have been made with received dividends, these were City of London and Murray International and one top up of Vodafone after a price fall since initial investment. The plan is reinvest dividends primarily in the Growth portfolio and leave the Income portfolio to do its thing, if the overall income increases roughly in line with inflation I will be happy, if it increases ahead of inflation I will be very happy. If necessary elements of the growth portfolio can be top sliced to either provide additional income of reinvested in the income portfolio if it really becomes necessary and this would be in the Investment trusts and not direct shares. In time I would imaging the direct shares will become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall portfolio.

When the pensions are taken the 25% of the DB will be put aside to be used and the 25% of the SIPP will be created by selling down the required value from the growth portfolio which will be then reinvested in her ISA (and some in a fund account until it can all be moved in to the ISA) and the same products repurchased, or potentially I may look at putting some in to a global ETF. This decision will be made nearer the time when I can evaluate the performance of the growth products I have selected.

Feel free to comment but please no hijacking.

Regards
Quint

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175187

Postby Dod101 » October 20th, 2018, 1:41 pm

That seems to me to be a very sensible and well thought through strategy. I would not hold BT because I do not like its pensions deficit and it has been a less than reliable performer on the dividend front. As a substitute I think I would use HSBC or Legal & General. This would I think be a good entry point for either share but of course the HSBC dividend is currently on hold, although the yield is over 6%. Otherwise I would be happy to go with this plan, but of course as always, keep an eye on things.

Dod

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175193

Postby Quint » October 20th, 2018, 2:01 pm

Dod101 wrote:That seems to me to be a very sensible and well thought through strategy. I would not hold BT because I do not like its pensions deficit and it has been a less than reliable performer on the dividend front. As a substitute I think I would use HSBC or Legal & General. This would I think be a good entry point for either share but of course the HSBC dividend is currently on hold, although the yield is over 6%. Otherwise I would be happy to go with this plan, but of course as always, keep an eye on things.

Dod


Thanks Dod, good point about BT. It is one of those shares, I hold it in my fund account and it is down on capital, I think I managed to get it in the wife's SIPP at a low point and indeed has shown a capital growth of around 10% so far. If the share price does stage a bit of a recovery (which is half of the reason I added it along with the other three direct share holdings) and the dividend does not start to rise again then it may well get sold down and replaced. It will not be getting any more cash.

I hold HSBC and Legal and General in both my ISA and SIPP. The SIPP holdings were recently added but the longer term ISA holdings have fallen back from the high points last autumn although they are still well in the green for me.

You will notice I put in the full names of my holdings rather than the ticker ;)

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175301

Postby Walrus » October 21st, 2018, 9:37 am

Quint wrote:Hi,

Due to my previous thread being hijacked by those who wanted to start an active versus passive and income versus growth debate I have decided to start this as a new thread.

As I said before this I am posting for information only. It may be of interest or use to some. Please do not hijack this thread.

The goal of this portfolio is primarily to add some income to the top of a small DB pension that Mrs Quint will start to draw when she turns 60 in just over three years time. We have worked out the required income based on what she is currently living on now (and has been for the past three years, 8 months of which have been since FIRE at the end of Feb). The DB pension will meet about 50% of this income so the SIPP needs to provide the other 50%. Holidays and luxuries are provided for by a separate S&S ISA. Safety net of cash and bonds are held outside of the SIPP and would account for total loss of income from both SIPP and DB pension for 5 years. Once the DB and SIPP are being drawn on she will have seven years until the state pension kicks in. She will receive the full state pension.

SIPP is now fully invested, no additional money will be paid in but dividends will be reinvested for the next three years.

I have split the SIPP in to two elements, one to provide income to meet the requirement and one to provide some growth although this does provide some additional income which can be taken as extra income or reinvested in either the income or growth areas.

Currently the Income portfolio is (based on trailing yield) generating the income that will be required in 3 years time plus about 4% if I add the income from the growth portfolio this goes up to income required plus 15%. This is after deducting the platform fee which is capped at £200 p/a.

Once I had finished building the portfolio (this has taken nearly a year as the SIPP was combined from transferring in two separate pensions which came in six months apart) and is now split as below

Income = 62%
Growth = 36%
Cash = 2%

The detail of how this invested is below

Code: Select all

Income                             | % of Income Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
BT Group plc                       |                   3.9 |                  2.4
City Of London Investment Trust    |                  17.2 |                 10.6
CQS New City High Yield Fund       |                   8.0 |                  4.9
European Assets Trust              |                   4.0 |                  2.4
Henderson Far East Income Ltd      |                   8.4 |                  5.2
Imperial Brands                    |                   4.0 |                  2.5
Lowland Investment Company         |                   7.9 |                  4.8
Murray International Trust         |                   9.1 |                  5.6
National Grid                      |                   3.9 |                  2.4
North American Income Trust        |                   7.8 |                  4.8
Regional REIT Ltd                  |                   3.9 |                  2.4
Scottish American Investment Co    |                   8.1 |                  5.0
Standard Life Private Equity Trust |                   7.9 |                  4.9
Vodafone Group                     |                   5.9 |                  3.6
Total                              |                 100.0 |                 61.7
                                 


Code: Select all

Growth                                 | % of Growth Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
Finsbury Growth & Income Trust         |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Foreign & Colonial Investment Trust    |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Henderson Smaller Cos Investment Trust |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust     |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Witan Investment Trust                 |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Total                                  |                 100.0 |                 36.3
                                     

The plan was initially to hold only investment trusts but I did decide to add four direct share holdings but at a minimal capital value as part of the portfolio to boost income. This was because recent falls had pushed the dividend yields up to much higher levels than historical averages, all have been raising the dividends at a decent rate in recent years, I know BT have held the dividend this year but they have indicated that next year it should start to rise again albeit probably not at the pace seen in recent years.

Two top ups have been made with received dividends, these were City of London and Murray International and one top up of Vodafone after a price fall since initial investment. The plan is reinvest dividends primarily in the Growth portfolio and leave the Income portfolio to do its thing, if the overall income increases roughly in line with inflation I will be happy, if it increases ahead of inflation I will be very happy. If necessary elements of the growth portfolio can be top sliced to either provide additional income of reinvested in the income portfolio if it really becomes necessary and this would be in the Investment trusts and not direct shares. In time I would imaging the direct shares will become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall portfolio.

When the pensions are taken the 25% of the DB will be put aside to be used and the 25% of the SIPP will be created by selling down the required value from the growth portfolio which will be then reinvested in her ISA (and some in a fund account until it can all be moved in to the ISA) and the same products repurchased, or potentially I may look at putting some in to a global ETF. This decision will be made nearer the time when I can evaluate the performance of the growth products I have selected.

Feel free to comment but please no hijacking.

Regards
Quint



On the whole I think it's a pretty sensible looking portfolio based on your requirements.

A few thoughts I have, would be I don't particularly like BT but as others have mentioned rising interest rates will help its pension deficit and I like the holdings of Grid Imp and Vod and income enhancers. Legal and General is another I think could be added. I'm less keen on adding retail banks and have a suspicion those businesses are very much ripe for disruption. I'd consider holding some commodity exposure possibly through BRCI.

On the growth side I prefer the Linsell Train Global fund to the Finsbury trust, but again understand why you may pick the former for it's dividend and I guess costs of holding on certain platforms.

All in all a well thought out portfolio I'd say.

Quint
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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175307

Postby Quint » October 21st, 2018, 10:06 am

Walrus wrote:
Quint wrote:Hi,

Due to my previous thread being hijacked by those who wanted to start an active versus passive and income versus growth debate I have decided to start this as a new thread.

As I said before this I am posting for information only. It may be of interest or use to some. Please do not hijack this thread.

The goal of this portfolio is primarily to add some income to the top of a small DB pension that Mrs Quint will start to draw when she turns 60 in just over three years time. We have worked out the required income based on what she is currently living on now (and has been for the past three years, 8 months of which have been since FIRE at the end of Feb). The DB pension will meet about 50% of this income so the SIPP needs to provide the other 50%. Holidays and luxuries are provided for by a separate S&S ISA. Safety net of cash and bonds are held outside of the SIPP and would account for total loss of income from both SIPP and DB pension for 5 years. Once the DB and SIPP are being drawn on she will have seven years until the state pension kicks in. She will receive the full state pension.

SIPP is now fully invested, no additional money will be paid in but dividends will be reinvested for the next three years.

I have split the SIPP in to two elements, one to provide income to meet the requirement and one to provide some growth although this does provide some additional income which can be taken as extra income or reinvested in either the income or growth areas.

Currently the Income portfolio is (based on trailing yield) generating the income that will be required in 3 years time plus about 4% if I add the income from the growth portfolio this goes up to income required plus 15%. This is after deducting the platform fee which is capped at £200 p/a.

Once I had finished building the portfolio (this has taken nearly a year as the SIPP was combined from transferring in two separate pensions which came in six months apart) and is now split as below

Income = 62%
Growth = 36%
Cash = 2%

The detail of how this invested is below

Code: Select all

Income                             | % of Income Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
BT Group plc                       |                   3.9 |                  2.4
City Of London Investment Trust    |                  17.2 |                 10.6
CQS New City High Yield Fund       |                   8.0 |                  4.9
European Assets Trust              |                   4.0 |                  2.4
Henderson Far East Income Ltd      |                   8.4 |                  5.2
Imperial Brands                    |                   4.0 |                  2.5
Lowland Investment Company         |                   7.9 |                  4.8
Murray International Trust         |                   9.1 |                  5.6
National Grid                      |                   3.9 |                  2.4
North American Income Trust        |                   7.8 |                  4.8
Regional REIT Ltd                  |                   3.9 |                  2.4
Scottish American Investment Co    |                   8.1 |                  5.0
Standard Life Private Equity Trust |                   7.9 |                  4.9
Vodafone Group                     |                   5.9 |                  3.6
Total                              |                 100.0 |                 61.7
                                 


Code: Select all

Growth                                 | % of Growth Portfolio | % of Total Portfolio
Finsbury Growth & Income Trust         |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Foreign & Colonial Investment Trust    |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Henderson Smaller Cos Investment Trust |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust     |                  20.0 |                  7.2
Witan Investment Trust                 |                  20.0 |                  7.3
Total                                  |                 100.0 |                 36.3
                                     

The plan was initially to hold only investment trusts but I did decide to add four direct share holdings but at a minimal capital value as part of the portfolio to boost income. This was because recent falls had pushed the dividend yields up to much higher levels than historical averages, all have been raising the dividends at a decent rate in recent years, I know BT have held the dividend this year but they have indicated that next year it should start to rise again albeit probably not at the pace seen in recent years.

Two top ups have been made with received dividends, these were City of London and Murray International and one top up of Vodafone after a price fall since initial investment. The plan is reinvest dividends primarily in the Growth portfolio and leave the Income portfolio to do its thing, if the overall income increases roughly in line with inflation I will be happy, if it increases ahead of inflation I will be very happy. If necessary elements of the growth portfolio can be top sliced to either provide additional income of reinvested in the income portfolio if it really becomes necessary and this would be in the Investment trusts and not direct shares. In time I would imaging the direct shares will become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall portfolio.

When the pensions are taken the 25% of the DB will be put aside to be used and the 25% of the SIPP will be created by selling down the required value from the growth portfolio which will be then reinvested in her ISA (and some in a fund account until it can all be moved in to the ISA) and the same products repurchased, or potentially I may look at putting some in to a global ETF. This decision will be made nearer the time when I can evaluate the performance of the growth products I have selected.

Feel free to comment but please no hijacking.

Regards
Quint



On the whole I think it's a pretty sensible looking portfolio based on your requirements.

A few thoughts I have, would be I don't particularly like BT but as others have mentioned rising interest rates will help its pension deficit and I like the holdings of Grid Imp and Vod and income enhancers. Legal and General is another I think could be added. I'm less keen on adding retail banks and have a suspicion those businesses are very much ripe for disruption. I'd consider holding some commodity exposure possibly through BRCI.

On the growth side I prefer the Linsell Train Global fund to the Finsbury trust, but again understand why you may pick the former for it's dividend and I guess costs of holding on certain platforms.

All in all a well thought out portfolio I'd say.


I have a very large holding of Lindsell Train global equity in my SIPP and ISA, it is one of me favourite and best performing investments, I wish there was an IT version but as there is not I added Finsbury to keep the SIPP charges capped at £200 for this portfolio. Platform is HL.

My SIPP is a different animal all together as I have no DB pension and I am 5 years younger. My SIPP is still being constructed and is about 70% invested currently. These are tricky times investing wise so I am trying to tread carefully. I intend to post my SIPP in a separate thread later but have been a bit busy the last few weeks.

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175313

Postby everhopeful » October 21st, 2018, 10:53 am

I hold ten of your selection across our two ISAs and one SIPP. I have nearly 30% in fixed interest, prefs and individual bonds as well as some IT exposure including CQS. Overall my fixed interest yields around 6% and has also shown decent capital uplift. I note you say that you hold some bonds outside your SIPP but I just wanted to make the general point that if a defined income is being sought and in the context of nervousness about the equity markets I am surprised less reference to fixed income is made in these boards when portfolios are being discussed.

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175349

Postby tjh290633 » October 21st, 2018, 3:22 pm

everhopeful wrote:I hold ten of your selection across our two ISAs and one SIPP. I have nearly 30% in fixed interest, prefs and individual bonds as well as some IT exposure including CQS. Overall my fixed interest yields around 6% and has also shown decent capital uplift. I note you say that you hold some bonds outside your SIPP but I just wanted to make the general point that if a defined income is being sought and in the context of nervousness about the equity markets I am surprised less reference to fixed income is made in these boards when portfolios are being discussed.

The problem with fixed interest is that it is fixed. You need increasing income in retirement, and you need that income to increase at least as fast as inflation.

The more fixed interest you have, the more pressure there is on the equity portion to provide the protection against inflation.

TJH

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175355

Postby Quint » October 21st, 2018, 3:52 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
everhopeful wrote:I hold ten of your selection across our two ISAs and one SIPP. I have nearly 30% in fixed interest, prefs and individual bonds as well as some IT exposure including CQS. Overall my fixed interest yields around 6% and has also shown decent capital uplift. I note you say that you hold some bonds outside your SIPP but I just wanted to make the general point that if a defined income is being sought and in the context of nervousness about the equity markets I am surprised less reference to fixed income is made in these boards when portfolios are being discussed.

The problem with fixed interest is that it is fixed. You need increasing income in retirement, and you need that income to increase at least as fast as inflation.

The more fixed interest you have, the more pressure there is on the equity portion to provide the protection against inflation.

TJH


TJH,

You beat me to it.

As we are looking at early retirement with a potential investment period of over 30 years still I am not overly nervous about equities as things should even out over such a long period. It is also why I have chosen Investment Trusts as they are able to use their reserves to smooth dividend income.

Also I prefer my non equity holds to be in something 100% safe, liquid and free of tax and no cost to hold. Hence cash ISA and premium bonds. Yes I am aware they will lag inflation but that is a known down side that I can deal with.

Bonds are at risk of capital loss in a rising interest rate environment or risk of default with individual corporate bonds. There are very few IT's purely related to bonds, I do not wish to hold OEIC's in this SIPP due to platform costs and direct bond holdings are not an area I wish to venture in to at this point in time. I have considered bond ETF's and decided they are not appropriate at this time.

If I add the bond and cash allocations outside of the SIPP then the portfolio looks more like:

Equities = 75%
Bonds = 12.5%
Cash = 12.5%

Also I view the income from the DB pension as a proxy for bond income with the bonus of index linking up to a point.

Quint

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175361

Postby everhopeful » October 21st, 2018, 4:14 pm

I was lucky enough to buy most of my fixed interest when prices were much lower than they now are so can accommodate some capital erosion and of course if the price drops so the yield increases. I think it matters where you think inflation is going and what the outlook for equities is. I happen to think inflation is destined to stay relatively low and am nervous about the short term outlook for equities. The recent correction in the market barely touched my fixed interest holding. There is a risk of default with individual bonds but there is of course a risk holding individual shares. I am not in any way meaning to criticize your SIPP holdings as I hold many of them as I said. I just wanted to make a case for introducing some fixed interest to add balance and diversity.

Quint
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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175364

Postby Quint » October 21st, 2018, 4:37 pm

everhopeful wrote:I was lucky enough to buy most of my fixed interest when prices were much lower than they now are so can accommodate some capital erosion and of course if the price drops so the yield increases. I think it matters where you think inflation is going and what the outlook for equities is. I happen to think inflation is destined to stay relatively low and am nervous about the short term outlook for equities. The recent correction in the market barely touched my fixed interest holding. There is a risk of default with individual bonds but there is of course a risk holding individual shares. I am not in any way meaning to criticize your SIPP holdings as I hold many of them as I said. I just wanted to make a case for introducing some fixed interest to add balance and diversity.


I do appreciate what you are advocating, and there has been some discussion on the subject which has helped me draw the conclusions that I have.

Maybe the use of fixed interest is not discussed heavily in this section where maybe it should be.

There are many ways to achieve an objective and I think both of ours will do the trick.

Hariseldon58
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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175606

Postby Hariseldon58 » October 22nd, 2018, 6:58 pm

I understand why the individual shares are there but I’d prefer say The Merchants Trust, Shires Income or Henderson High Income. All yielding around 5% with more diversity than the individual holding.

Merchants has rid itself of some of its expensive legacy debt and is doing better on the capital side of late.

I can understand the high yield fixed interest bonds , the higher income is probably more use in the early years than later in life and the presence of the growth element provides provision for growth, sounds sensible.

Quint
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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#175637

Postby Quint » October 22nd, 2018, 9:40 pm

Hariseldon58 wrote:I understand why the individual shares are there but I’d prefer say The Merchants Trust, Shires Income or Henderson High Income. All yielding around 5% with more diversity than the individual holding.

Merchants has rid itself of some of its expensive legacy debt and is doing better on the capital side of late.

I can understand the high yield fixed interest bonds , the higher income is probably more use in the early years than later in life and the presence of the growth element provides provision for growth, sounds sensible.


Merchants Trust was on my original list but I decided not to purchase. As pointed out it has since staged something of a recovery. Henderson high income was also considered. Shires was not on my radar.

I think the next two to three years will tell if I made the right decision with the four individual shares.

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#178125

Postby Gadge » November 4th, 2018, 9:06 pm

I would either sell the individual shares or buy enough of them to spread the risk.

Gadge

Ps I have only read your post and not all the other posts so this may have been covered to death by other lemons already

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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#178132

Postby PinkDalek » November 4th, 2018, 9:46 pm

Gadge wrote:Ps I have only read your post and not all the other posts so this may have been covered to death by other lemons already


Unlike the click back system on TMF, if you don’t quote the author (as I’ve done here), no-one (other than you) will know to whom you’ve replied but I imagine it was the OP.

Quint
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Re: Mrs Quint's SIPP - Update

#178174

Postby Quint » November 5th, 2018, 10:25 am

Gadge wrote:I would either sell the individual shares or buy enough of them to spread the risk.

Gadge

Ps I have only read your post and not all the other posts so this may have been covered to death by other lemons already


Hi,

Point taken on board. Actually nobody else has suggested this and as each share is one of 19 holdings and 15 of the holdings are in diversified IT's I am happy with things as they stand. However that is not to say that they may not get sold in the future. I have no intention of buying any more individual shares for this portfolio, nor will I be topping up the individual shares.

The holding in BT is showing a 25% gain on capital at the moment. If the share price continues to recover but the dividend stagnates and drops to a level that can be matched by an IT then this may get sold and the money put in to an IT. This goes for any of the other holdings. Time will tell.


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