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Pension Transfer

Including Financial Independence and Retiring Early (FIRE)
WickedLester
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Pension Transfer

#159730

Postby WickedLester » August 15th, 2018, 6:44 am

I wonder if any of you clever people can offer me some practical advice.

I have a small pension fund that I have had for around 23 years. It was not actually an occupational pension fund but my employer introduced me to the adviser that set it up for me. I have probably not paid into it for around 15 years and it is currently worth a tad shy of £20k.

Now I wish to transfer this fund to my AJ Bell SIPP but Aegon Retire Ready who manage it are insisting that they do full AML checks before letting me transfer out. They are also insisting that I provide proof of address despite the fact that before it became Retire Ready I used to receive paper statements from Aegon to my home address (where I am on the electoral register) which has not changed in 10 years.

My point is that I have neither a valid passport nor photo driving licence so cannot provide them with the identification they require, but is it really necessary for me to do this anyway when I am transferring away from them not to them? It also seems to me that if they are not happy that I can identify myself then they should end the business relationship with me to be safe, which I would like done by a transfer to AJ Bell who are happy with my identity.

Surely I should not have to do this to transfer a small, old scheme from one registered provider in my own name, with my correct address and NI number to another registered scheme in my own name, with my correct address and NI number?

I have searched the web but finding anything definitive is very hard which leads me to believe this is an unusual situation.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Lester

swill453
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Re: Pension Transfer

#159733

Postby swill453 » August 15th, 2018, 6:55 am

How have you initiated this transfer, and what led to you being in communication with Aegon?

To do such a transfer I would have filled in the appropriate form at AJBell requesting the transfer, giving the Aegon account or reference number, and let them get on with it.

I have done this multiple times, and never had to contact the "donor" pension provider at all.

If you did do this, and Aegon got in touch with you direct, then I would ask AJBell for help.

Scott.

WickedLester
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Re: Pension Transfer

#159756

Postby WickedLester » August 15th, 2018, 8:41 am

Thanks Scott

I did contact Aegon. I think from memory when I have done pension transfers in the past I have contacted both firms form forms, it may be that this is unnessecary and I just need to use the forms available on AJ Bell's website.

I will phone AJ Bell today and ask them their advice.

Lester

melonfool
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Re: Pension Transfer

#159850

Postby melonfool » August 15th, 2018, 2:40 pm

swill453 wrote:How have you initiated this transfer, and what led to you being in communication with Aegon?

To do such a transfer I would have filled in the appropriate form at AJBell requesting the transfer, giving the Aegon account or reference number, and let them get on with it.

I have done this multiple times, and never had to contact the "donor" pension provider at all.

If you did do this, and Aegon got in touch with you direct, then I would ask AJBell for help.

Scott.


This is interesting - I'm sure that's how I did my last transfer which was from Aegon (RR) to AJ Bell SIPP. But just recently I contacted L&G who have one of my pensions and they sent me a 12 page booklet I need to get AJB to fill in! Plus a few pages I need to sign etc.

As a result of this, I have downloaded the AJB form and intend to just fill that in, send it to AJB with the booklet and ask them to deal with it.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Meanwhile I also contacted Virgin about three weeks ago asking them to 1) stop my DD and 2) tell me how to transfer out. They have not responded. I've messaged them three times now and the third time I threatened to report them to the ombudsman. If I've not heard in a week I'll do it from the AJB end.

Mel

kempiejon
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160062

Postby kempiejon » August 16th, 2018, 9:04 am

I have moved 3 abandoned pensions to a Hargreaves Lansdowne SIPP, in each case I had no initial contact with the previous pension providers I gave HL details on the accounts and they did most of the work, just one account I needed to fill in a declaration and return to the donor company.

StepOne
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160067

Postby StepOne » August 16th, 2018, 9:35 am

I have just moved a personal pension from Fidelity to iWeb (think it's based on Sippdeal/AJ Bell). I filled out a form for AJ Bell, which they sent to Fidelity, but Fidelity then posted me a bunch of other forms to fill out and sign. That's basically all that happened - but it's taken 3 months so far (not helped by me moving house in the middle of it) and it's still not complete!

StepOne

melonfool
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160068

Postby melonfool » August 16th, 2018, 9:37 am

L&G have confirmed I have to use their form or they will not do the transfer out - so I do have to fill it in and send it to AJB.

:roll:

I don't know if this is because it's a specific scheme set up by an employer. The AVC's that are part of my Boots FS pension I also have to fill out the Boots form, they sent me a VERY stern letter telling me I have to initiate the transfer through them.

Mel

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Re: Pension Transfer

#160077

Postby GentlemansFamily » August 16th, 2018, 10:40 am

keep badgering them!
unfortunately, they tend to mess things up and take their time - it took me ages to get things together too.
Good luck!

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Re: Pension Transfer

#160082

Postby puffster » August 16th, 2018, 11:09 am

I transferred a pension from Zurich to my current SIPP. When I checked with Zurich about any exit penalties or guarantees that might be lost, they also sent me a pack for the transfer which they said *had* to be filled out so I never used the current SIPP provider to do the transfer. I did this and it all went well and only took a few weeks. I presume if I had used my current SIPP provider to do a pull transfer then it would have been delayed whilst the pack was sent to me for filling out.

Regards, Puffster

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Re: Pension Transfer

#160265

Postby Agrajag » August 17th, 2018, 10:42 am

Hi Lester,

WickedLester wrote:Aegon Retire Ready who manage it are insisting that they do full AML checks before letting me transfer out.


It may be worth asking Aegon to carry out an Electronic AML check and pointing out to them that asking for documentation before transfer to make up for the gap in their AML records appears to be at odds with Outcome 6 of the FCA's Fair Treatment of Customers:
Outcome 6: Consumers do not face unreasonable post-sale barriers imposed by firms to change product, switch provider, submit a claim or make a complaint.

It might not work as AML trumps all, but could be worth a try.

melonfool wrote:Meanwhile I also contacted Virgin about three weeks ago asking them to 1) stop my DD and 2) tell me how to transfer out. They have not responded. I've messaged them three times now and the third time I threatened to report them to the ombudsman.


You need to make a complaint to the firm and receive the response (the firm must respond within 8 weeks) to take it to the Ombudsmen. If you've not done so already on your next message include the line "This is a complaint".

However, I'd never bother contacting the existing firm, just use and submit the forms to the provider you want to transfer to as they have a vested interest in sorting out the snags as it's their new business.

Agrajag

melonfool
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160271

Postby melonfool » August 17th, 2018, 11:23 am

Ta Agrajag - I knew that, but I got a load of paperwork from Virgin last night, so that's next week's job.

Mel

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Re: Pension Transfer

#160595

Postby Pipsmum » August 19th, 2018, 2:53 pm

I'm genuinely very interested in this thread as I have a vintage pension too. I'm 58 later this year so don't know whether to tinker with it or let it run to its end.

What virtues and benefits are there in moving it to someone like HL? Is it so that you can manipulate it into shares of your own choice?

WickedLester
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160601

Postby WickedLester » August 19th, 2018, 3:57 pm

Well an update on this. A couple of days after I made a formal complaint Aegon contacted me to sat that they had now managed to verify my identity electronically which should of course have been what they did in the first place. In fact to test their systems I opened a new pension online in about five minutes and noted that it was not necessary for me to send in my passport to begin paying in to it.

I am disgusted with their customer service, it appears that they tell lies and I left them a one star Trustpilot review which is about on a par with their overall score there.

So this weekend I am going to fill in all the forms and send them off and hopefully in a couple of weeks time it'll all be done and dusted.

Thanks for all the replies.

I also have a tiny nest pension from some temporary work I did a few years ago and I understand they are just as reticent about letting you transfer out.

TUK020
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160630

Postby TUK020 » August 19th, 2018, 6:13 pm

Pipsmum wrote:I'm genuinely very interested in this thread as I have a vintage pension too. I'm 58 later this year so don't know whether to tinker with it or let it run to its end.

What virtues and benefits are there in moving it to someone like HL? Is it so that you can manipulate it into shares of your own choice?


Pipsmum,
I am in the fortunate position of having a main Defined Benefit Pension from the company that I spent the majority of my career with. After careful consideration, I decided not to touch that, and let everything run for a few more years until retirement (most of it can be taken from the age of 60 without penalty, about 1/5th from 65).
I also had two other small company pensions, and a personal top up pension. I have moved all of these into an HL SIPP (and my current employer pays into this).

This gives me the ability to run this myself, invested in individual S&S and some I.T.s (variation on the HYP theme)
This also gives me the flexibility to determine when and how much to draw down, so that I can use this as a "filler" before I take the main pension, and subsequently as a top up, to flexibly manage my income to manage my income tax rate. This flexibility is as important as the self managed investment bit.

An example is that I pulled the tax free lump sum out of the SIPP, and have then been cycling that into an ISA, plus kids' ISAs to get as much out of the taxable pot before they go and change the rules on us again.

However, I do have the peace of mind that I still have the main DB pension scheme if I screw it all up.

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Re: Pension Transfer

#160742

Postby StepOne » August 20th, 2018, 12:42 pm

Pipsmum wrote:What virtues and benefits are there in moving it to someone like HL? Is it so that you can manipulate it into shares of your own choice?


I don't know if buying your own choice of shares could be described as a 'virtue or benefit'. I can imagine a lot of pensions being frittered away that way.

I have moved all my pensions into a SIPP, but am planning on leaving it invested in a range of cheap, diverse, global trackers. (Although I will probably have the odd 'punt' with 1 or 2% if I am honest!)

I know a couple of people who have transferred out of DB schemes recently. The main advantage for them is that they can put their SIPP into drawdown, and anything they don't spend can be left to their kids, unlike the DB scheme which would have died with them/their spouse.

melonfool
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Re: Pension Transfer

#160892

Postby melonfool » August 20th, 2018, 10:25 pm

Moderator Message:
I have moved the sub-topic to its own thread so that people can find it and comment. Here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13261 Mel

Pipsmum
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Re: Pension Transfer

#161175

Postby Pipsmum » August 22nd, 2018, 9:31 am

StepOne wrote:
Pipsmum wrote:What virtues and benefits are there in moving it to someone like HL? Is it so that you can manipulate it into shares of your own choice?


I don't know if buying your own choice of shares could be described as a 'virtue or benefit'. I can imagine a lot of pensions being frittered away that way.

I have moved all my pensions into a SIPP, but am planning on leaving it invested in a range of cheap, diverse, global trackers. (Although I will probably have the odd 'punt' with 1 or 2% if I am honest!)

I know a couple of people who have transferred out of DB schemes recently. The main advantage for them is that they can put their SIPP into drawdown, and anything they don't spend can be left to their kids, unlike the DB scheme which would have died with them/their spouse.


Quite agree about the frittering away risk. However it is the passing to the kids/own control aspect that is intriguing. Mine at last check is being managed very well with a reputable fund source, so will probably leave it well alone for now and would certainly pass it by your collective eyes before being rash. However, useful comments on here are being avidly observed.

melonfool
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Re: Pension Transfer

#161179

Postby melonfool » August 22nd, 2018, 9:39 am

Pipsmum - when you say 'vintage pension', do you actually mean a defined benefit scheme, or something different?

People seem to have assumed you mean a DB scheme but as you have said 'managed by someone very reputable' it sounds like it's a defined contribution scheme, or group personal pension type arrangement.

If it is the latter then the 'leaving it to the kids' aspect is not an issue, as it will be anyway (you need to do a declaration for the trustees). It is only DB schemes and annuities which disappear when you die (to keep the schemes funded for people who live longer).

Mel

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Re: Pension Transfer

#162251

Postby Pipsmum » August 26th, 2018, 6:59 pm

melonfool wrote:Pipsmum - when you say 'vintage pension', do you actually mean a defined benefit scheme, or something different?

People seem to have assumed you mean a DB scheme but as you have said 'managed by someone very reputable' it sounds like it's a defined contribution scheme, or group personal pension type arrangement.

If it is the latter then the 'leaving it to the kids' aspect is not an issue, as it will be anyway (you need to do a declaration for the trustees). It is only DB schemes and annuities which disappear when you die (to keep the schemes funded for people who live longer).

Mel


I don't want to hijack this thread too much with my own misunderstandings. Mine was unlikely to be a DB scheme as I was mostly self employed. It was a regular contribution thing that matures on a certain date by having been invested into funds by whoever I took it with. I stopped contributing to it when I wasn't working so it stayed at a certain level. I'll dig it out when next doing such things, examine it in detail and will report in here on a new thread before doing anything daft.

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Re: Pension Transfer

#162258

Postby Alaric » August 26th, 2018, 7:35 pm

Pipsmum wrote: I'll dig it out when next doing such things, examine it in detail and will report in here on a new thread before doing anything daft.


You would need to find out what it's invested in and what it's currently worth. Whether it's worth switching to something else is going to be a function of convenience, charges and choice of assets. A SIPP would be able to access almost everything that's available to UK retail investors and the more expensive SIPPs stuff that isn't generally available. If when you start taking benefits, you wanted them in flexible form, you might find a "vintage" pension would restrict you to buying an annuity unless you transfer.


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