The Lemon Fool

I would have loved to start a new business after selling the last one.

But the world moves on and those that can and do are anathema while those who can and don't are seen as victims.

Policy taxes people accordingly. Therefore full removal of oneself from the environment is practically encouraged via tax policy.

I see this positively as giving those who would like to, but have not yet, the room to run free. Also for those who can, but aren't quite there yet more room.

And in 200 years time nobody will consider any of this of any importance at all.

Freedom comes from FIRE

SalvorHardin wrote:Controlling your spending is a major piece of the puzzle. As I discovered during my time in the City, a surprising number of people on very high salaries aren't wealthy because all of their income goes on maintaining their lifestyle. Turn off their income for a couple of months and they'd be defaulting on all of their (many) loans.

This is a major part of it IMHO. I previously recounted working in a bank and the range of colleagues who were doing well, and the lifestyle of the sub-set who emerged at the end a decade+ later, with some wealth intact [that was under the topic title 'The Psychology of Money - Morgan Housel'] viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12138&p=146941&hilit=Ford+Europe#p146941
It's too easy to live for the now, spend up to your latest pay-rise, not prepare for being unemployed/unemployable x-years hence.

Controlling your spending is a major piece of the puzzle. It is, but I wonder how much that can be taught. Spending seems like an innate need for many. 'He drives a flashy car therefore he is successful'; the identity and ego gets bound up into it, 'invested' into it lol. How odd, but over Xmas I was amongst people who seemed to have precisely this view. It seems more common amongst people who aren't particularly wealthy.

This was my first Xmas back home in the UK after 10 years away, I was surprised by how displays of material wealth seemed to matter so much to people; especially in judging the status/merit of others. I feel almost subversive not playing along with that game

Dod101 wrote:Makes me wonder why people bother to work if they are 'retiring' in their 30's. It is also no wonder that we as a country are falling behind if this sort of talent s being lost to the workplace at such an early age. Dod

Why work/earn/save+ retire early eh, when instead you could aspire to a life at the grind-stone or on benefits or similar? I don't know, can't figure out that one at all
You get very anti-Randian (Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged) in almost suggesting the successful have a duty to keep on working to support those who... P it year after year up a wall on the latest toys.
If 'talent' is quitting the rat-race early, perhaps ask what's at fault with the race-track before blaming the players?

What's the point in retiring in your 30s if all your mates are still working?

That's a serious question by the way. I'm certainly aware of a few 'youngsters' who have completely gone off the rails when a few million has landed in their laps. Whether that be by lottery wins or inheritances.

If someone gave me £10m, after buying a new house, car and boat, i'd probably spend the next two weeks in the pub.

What makes one person different to another person? Guess if you come from money, it will be easier for you to deal with but there's no guarantee of that.

There aren't many super rich people that haven't succumbed to drugs, so what makes you any different?

HYD

Howyoudoin wrote:
There aren't many super rich people that haven't succumbed to drugs

HYD

I am genuinely puzzled as to where that idea comes from.

Gostevie

DiamondEcho wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Makes me wonder why people bother to work if they are 'retiring' in their 30's. It is also no wonder that we as a country are falling behind if this sort of talent s being lost to the workplace at such an early age. Dod

Why work/earn/save+ retire early eh, when instead you could aspire to a life at the grind-stone or on benefits or similar? I don't know, can't figure out that one at all
You get very anti-Randian (Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged) in almost suggesting the successful have a duty to keep on working to support those who... P it year after year up a wall on the latest toys.
If 'talent' is quitting the rat-race early, perhaps ask what's at fault with the race-track before blaming the players?

I would love to retire in my 40s. Whilst I enjoy work, I do not enjoy effectively being on call 24/7 which my last two employers have effectively required. Weekends and Holidays are regularly disrupted, and sometimes it feels the equivalent of modern day slavery despite being in a profession.

Howyoudoin wrote:What's the point in retiring in your 30s if all your mates are still working?

That's a serious question by the way. I'm certainly aware of a few 'youngsters' who have completely gone off the rails when a few million has landed in their laps. Whether that be by lottery wins or inheritances.

If someone gave me £10m, after buying a new house, car and boat, i'd probably spend the next two weeks in the pub.

What makes one person different to another person? Guess if you come from money, it will be easier for you to deal with but there's no guarantee of that.

There aren't many super rich people that haven't succumbed to drugs, so what makes you any different?

So what if your mates are still working? I never socialised with my friends during working hours anyway.

The big problem as I see it is that jealousy can all too easily rear its ugly head, so what I did is create a fake job (self-employed) so that it appeared that I was still working. It's relatively easy to do this as long as it is plausible that you can work from home. After a few months people will stop asking you about it beyond the usual pleasantries.

I'd suggest that those of us here on TLF who have taken early retirement, or are contemplating it, aren't likely to go off the rails. For one thing we've probably made most our money though work and investing it, so we have a different sense of value to someone in their thirties who has lived from paycheck to paycheck who wins the lottery or has a major inheritance. If someone gave me £10 million I'd still shop at Aldi and Lidl, I'd soon have a bigger portfolio and my one luxury would be buying a racehorse, or rather shares in many racehorses - with an extra £10 million that would be affordable (remember the general rule, "never invest in anything that eats").

Here's a fairly lengthy thread on dealing with very Early Retirement (mine is the fourth post in).
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3214

As mentioned previously by several of us, a key part of the solution is containing your costs. People who like to have a new car every year and buy flashy stuff to impress the neighbours almost certainly aren't going to have the discipline to retire early. But those of who do aren't going to become drug addicts or wasters (since I retired I've passed three degrees). This doesn't mean that you have to live a bargain basement lifestyle, just be a bit careful about the major expenditures. I live the rural lifestyle of someone earning roughly £30,000 a year before tax (way above average salary in my part of England), who doesn't have to pay the mortgage (or rent) and doesn't have any of the costs associated with going to work (which can be substantial).

Walrus wrote:I would love to retire in my 40s. Whilst I enjoy work, I do not enjoy effectively being on call 24/7 which my last two employers have effectively required. Weekends and Holidays are regularly disrupted, and sometimes it feels the equivalent of modern day slavery despite being in a profession.

I recall 30 years ago living in Tokyo, and having a phone by my bed. After 12hrs in the office I'd have London calling at 2am and New York at 6am. Often whilst some beauty was pleasuring me. We sometimes put in 110hr weeks back then, because that was what was demanded, 'to get ahead'.

SalvorHardin wrote:So what if your mates are still working? I never socialised with my friends during working hours anyway.

The big problem as I see it is that jealousy can all too easily rear its ugly head, so what I did is create a fake job (self-employed) so that it appeared that I was still working. It's relatively easy to do this as long as it is plausible that you can work from home. After a few months people will stop asking you about it beyond the usual pleasantries.

Agree with all SalvorHardin's comments, including the above. My non-working status drives my sister in law nuts; my mother refers to me as a "wheeler dealer" and I think is rather ashamed of my lowly status. However I don't inhabit this planet to satisfy the whims of 100% of other people; most accept my role as "professional investor".

Obtaining credit can sometimes be tricky as investment returns are usually not counted as "income", but UK tax policy is highly favourable IME.


GS

Howyoudoin wrote:What's the point in retiring in your 30s if all your mates are still working?

That's a serious question by the way. I'm certainly aware of a few 'youngsters' who have completely gone off the rails when a few million has landed in their laps. Whether that be by lottery wins or inheritances.

If someone gave me £10m, after buying a new house, car and boat, i'd probably spend the next two weeks in the pub.

What makes one person different to another person? Guess if you come from money, it will be easier for you to deal with but there's no guarantee of that.

There aren't many super rich people that haven't succumbed to drugs, so what makes you any different?

HYD

I retired in my early 40s; achieving it in ones 30s is mainly the preserve of City types and entrepreneurs who've sold businesses. For me it was a marathon rather than a sprint, hence having to wait a further decade. Definitely didn't inherit anything: grew up in a single parent household, council estate. Parents died young, dad with literally £40.29 to his name, not enough to bury him.

The idea that it's easier if you come from money is therefore not one I recognise. To my mind, if money's replaceable you're more likely to throw it up your nose or give it to Russian hookers than if you grafted for it, know there's no more available from mummy and daddy if things go Pete Tong and understand from personal experience how poverty feels.