Sunday afternoon musings: Not telling anybody

[UncleIan]

I think the most likely use of (very) limited spare cash would be to chuck a few quid at getting the mortgage down as I'm sure that once that is repaid, and your home is your own, life becomes a whole lot easier! Not too sure what a few quid at the mortgage actually saves in real terms though...

I made a spreadsheet, I think the columns were something like

Date
Total amount left
Monthly amount paid
Interest rate
Interest amount
New total amount left
One off funds added

I probably could have done without one of the total columns, but anyway. It was fairly belt and braces, and used to drift off course as I was working out interest monthly, and it was actually calculated daily.

I used it to model changes to interest rates, but also used it to model changes to monthly payments, and add bonus payments/one off payments, and see what happened to the end date, what date the new total amount left went negative. You could also see the effect of the compound interest over time, and with one off payments, e.g. if you paid off £1000 in one go, and it had made £1100 difference by the end - I'd just "earned" £100! Or if you up your monthly payment by £25, it knocks x months off the end of your mortgage.

Basically felt I had to do this as we spent our savings and some poorly performing endowments on an extension, so we owed the mortgage co £90k (yes, going back a bit) and had no savings vehicle or fund to pay it back.

The spreadsheet focussed the mind. Almost became slightly addictive. It worked a treat anyway, we paid it off I think 2-2.5 years early.

[JohnB]

I FIREd last October at 48. I told everybody who'd listen, just as I'd moaned to them how much I hated my job for years before that. Sometimes I call it retirement, sometimes that I've given up my job and don't need to look for another one. I'm open in saying I've got enough cash, and no-one looks puzzled by that. They know I was a civil-service plodder who got lucky with a few years contracting.

I'm frugal, scruffy and single, no children, so its not an aspirational lifestyle, and most of my friends aren't conspicuous consumers anyway, I live in a academic, books, beer and pub grub social network. My past extravagance was travel, 54 countries so far, and I'll get back to that, but backpacking across South America just doesn't appeal to them.

Without a single clear thing to do, I do get some projection from others "when are you starting your novel", but no resentment.

I'll discuss numbers with close friends, and discuss principles with anyone, but don't generally know many spendthrifts who financially out of control.

[AleisterCrowley]

frugal, scruffy and single, no children

That's me! I'm working towards being able to retire 'early' (I get work DB pension at 60 - I'm 51) but I've got a few £1000 to go before that happy day is possible.
Going back to the start of this interesting thread - what to tell people.
Just say you're a Private Investor - which is likely to be true in pretty much every case

[moorfield]

I'm hoping to be FIREd at 49, but to be honest I've put no thought yet into what happens next. I don't think I'd ever want to stop working completely, but nor would I want to remain in any form of permanent employment answering to the man. Some form of academic research appeals perhaps.

[toofast2live]

Retired at 48. Both the wife and I on good DB index linked pensions which we started taking 10 years early at 50. The investments have done well and I think we now spend more than we did working, manly because all we did was w*rk.

Everybody was fine about it - a few jokes but nothing else. The past 14 years have been fantastic, spending six months a year in Spain, travelling a lot, getting my yachtmaster qualification, reading. I even wrote a few articles for TMF for 6 months, before they wanted share pushing cr*p. Been blessed...

[saechunu]

Some good posts. I particularly liked todthedog's anecdote about the admin in Sweden being a nightmare.... and that from someone who's lived in France. The mind boggles.

While 'Retired' is the occupation I specify on any official documents it's not a very informative term so in conversation with people I tell them I run an investment portfolio. This is entirely truthful and more descriptive. It's also less tacky than me telling my roofer, for instance, that I'm of independent means, which'll probably just see my invoice being hiked. So low key it is. As I've done this for much of my adult life it's all that many people have ever known me claim to do. Plus with many people working from home nowadays my lack of apparent work no longer marks me out as quite so iffy.

My description of vocation sometimes prompts a follow-up question so I explain no, I'm not a broker like Hargreaves Lansdown or a fund manager like Woodford but instead look after mine and my partner's own money. That normally does it as almost no one I ever come across is really much interested in investment. It seems most people have one of three takes on the subject:
1. "It's like punting on the dogs": these types are often very risk averse and so they've no further interest in something involving uncertainty (and there's no mileage in explaining that everything involves uncertainty...).
2. "I want to get rich fast"; these types have no interest in the discipline of a lifetime investment plan that may start slowly but can build significant wealth.
3. "It's all too complicated"; I have the most sympathy for these types as investing is a big subject that may seem overwhelming to begin with, set against the backdrop of an industry all too happy to relieve you of your hard-earned. In the face of this, inaction or deferment to an unspecified future date is the common response.

However...

Just recently I've detected that some contemporaries have begun showing a touch more interest in this boring old investment lark. Not in the get rich quick stuff but the good long term boring variety. Some of this is undoubtedly an age thing for them, whether they're contemplating the prospect of a different liberated life after their child raising years or one beyond a career that's now losing its allure. But I also suspect that media coverage of Osborne's pension reforms, increased longevity and none-interest rates, have begun to slowly place onto more people's agenda the notion of perhaps one day supporting themselves from some form of ongoing money pot, a.k.a. the perpetual investment portfolios many of us are already using.

So for the first time I've begin to field questions from them on ways to go about this (though often a bit late), the sort of things the financial independence blogosphere dedicates itself. Perhaps one day my chums will all be claiming their vocation is also managing an investment portfolio, my wilderness years will be over and I'll again fit right in. Won't be holding my breath though!

[ChrisF0]

Having a small business is an enormous help when explaining your rackety lifestyle to the puzzled. Especially if it is run from home, and is obscure/has no obvious output. In our case to do with words/text/publications/media ("very specialised subject. We mostly work for bigger companies so our name never appears.")

You can be as "busy" as you like (as an earlier poster said) and the independent business explains why you can take days off in the week. Or all week ....

The more obscure the field the better, so no-one can tell if you are actually producing anything, and an international component helps muddy the waters still further ("It's all published abroad....").

Hasten to add that (in mid-60s) I am still doing some work, when it is a fun project with good people, but not quite as much as the rest of the world sometimes assumes. Seems perfect to me!
C

[Lootman]

I never derived my identity from my work and so, when I retired, it was a non-issue for me. There is no stigma, to my mind, in being gloriously under-employed, and I didn't feel any need to lie, make up stories about a fake career or otherwise fabricate or obfuscate.

If someone asks what I do, I reply "I am retired". If they ask what I do with all the time, I reply "I pass time pleasurably".

I've honestly not missed working, not one day. I served my time and deserve my idle silver years.

And I've passed this non-work ethic onto my kids, who have each told me that it is their ambition to retire even earlier than I did.

[thebarns]

Loot,
I have similar sentiments to your own.

I hope to retire in just over a year, having just turned 53.

Worked hard putting up with a lot of work related stress in the process being the Boss, which can be an isolated position.

I will retire conscience free that I have done my bit in providing jobs and paying taxes and will happily never do another bit of work ever again.

Most of my contemporaries will not retire at this age, but nor have they had the sort of job I have had for the last 30 years.

I will have no qualms telling people I am retired because I had had enough and was in a financial position to walk away and pursue more relaxing and healthier interests and will also have a 10 year old daughter that will keep me more than busy !

[todthedog]

Loot you have hit the nail on the head, I enjoy being busy, I always tried to keep work and 'life' in different boxes hence the change not so difficult. Like yourself have never regretted and never wanted to go back.
Have to say now nobody would have me!

[MDW1954]

I am a self-employed writer and editor, working from home, almost never needing to travel, and with a range of interesting work that just keeps arriving from regular clients.

I started out thinking in terms of retiring early, and then decided I didn't want to. I changed all the pension projections to 70, and told friends and family that 70 was going to be the retirement date.

Simply put, I enjoy what I do too much to want to retire -- although my range of daily activities is very close to SalvorHardin's!

I'm now 62. One kid has flown the coop; the other is halfway through university. Wife has retired.

MDW1954

[thebarns]

Malcolm, noted that you fill your time in much the same way as SalvorHardin.....

Not sure your retired Missus would approve of one of his interests !!!!!

I plan to do much the same, only throw in a lot of golf !

[MDW1954]

Not sure your retired Missus would approve of one of his interests !!!!!

I couldn't possibly comment

MDW1954

[the0ni0nking]

And I've passed this non-work ethic onto my kids, who have each told me that it is their ambition to retire even earlier than I did.

Interestingly that is largely my stated mentality.

My dad retired / opted to take redundancy when he would otherwise have been forced to relocate c300 miles at the age of 51. Then started doing numerous activities with a group of fellow retirees about 10 years his senior.

1 year into retirement he went to the doctor complaining of shortness of breath at altitude on one of their weekly walks and in a very short time frame had a quintuplet heart bypass. Doubt he would have found out about it if it hadn't been for taking that retirement option. He's still chugging along nicely c25 years later.

My mum continued to work for c15 years after my dad stopped - I reckon if they'd both retired before grand-kids came along things would have been much more challenging in terms of finding sufficient stuff that they wanted to do!

My target is now to retire somewhere between 50-52 - currently 14 years away with a nice HY portfolio for income and 3 properties paid off in full (one main home UK, one home Spain and one BTL [fully managed by an agent and in a different part of the country to my main home - acquired during a 2 year absence from God's own county as a result of relocation].

I think health is one of the things that is very useful at targetting the mind to achieve something.

Cheers
0inK

[mickeypops]

This is a great thread. Thanks to everyone for their stories.

[BarrenFluffit]

Self employed share investor covers it if someone is really interested. Most people eye's glaze over or they tell you about their investing experiences.

I think it's important to recognise your good fortune and be sensitive to others positions; listen more than talk basically.
Being a supportive person with your time tends to lead to interesting situations and encourages people to see you as a person (rather than a rescource).

In practice most people know others in the same day to day position, it's just their a bit older.

Not working is my big luxury; otherwise my lifestyle is modest (and has been surprisingly cheap).

[saechunu]

Not working is my big luxury; otherwise my lifestyle is modest (and has been surprisingly cheap).

Working ever harder, ever longer, just so you can amass ever more tokens in the bank seems a bit pointless if in doing so your ability to actually do enjoyable stuff in your life is severely constrained because you have little free time available in which to do it.

Conversely, being 'free', largely in control of your own time, not ruled by the clock or by a schedule imposed by others (such as an employer) is a hugely valuable thing.

[DiamondEcho]

I've just noticed this topic and haven't time to read it whole, but am in similar circumstances to SalvorH. I was made redundant from my career at 38, with no real hope of getting back in. I'd always been a saver rather than spender so had savings and investments meaning I didn't necessarily have to find further employment.
But to the original question 'what do you say?'. I think the first thing is it's ok for your closest friends+family to know the truth IME, but it's new people you meet at social events where it can be an obstacle. That's because when you meet new people the tendency is to try and socially 'triangulate' each other, it's human nature. Both on the social pecking-order ['surgeon vs road-sweeper'] in order to determine respective hierarchy [this matters far more between career-age men IME], but also importantly to divine commonalities that can then follow on to be topics of discussion.
One time at a party a friend of a friend asked what I did and I flippantly replied 'nothing', and yes it killed the conversation stone dead. I learned that you burn your social bridges by even suggesting anything like that. So I'd suggest having a plausible cover, something that requires some ongoing need to graft; like 'historical researcher', 'antiques dealer' or 'property developer'. I dabbled in the latter for a number of years and when not hands-on was 'researching and waiting for the next opportunity' which worked fine, although it could have referred to ogling at Sarah Beaney on TV As mentioned^ 'freelance financial writer' would work pretty well too

Ps: Agree with BarrenF 2 posts up^ too

[TedSwippet]

... but some people have so little idea about finance that a simple explanation would make things worse - to them, having a £1m retirement fund is exactly like being a big lottery winner. While you're banging on about safe withdrawal rates they'll be dreaming about what they'd spend it on.

That mindset isn't restricted to just friends and acquaintances, though. You can regularly see it in the columns of the mainstream media (some of whom should know better). You can also see it in the actions of several chancellors, both past and present.

Thinking back, how often have you heard or read some variant of the phrase "... lucky enough to have a decent pension"? As if the entire thing was created entirely out of pure good fortune, and with no element at all of doing without and sacrificing current consumption for future financial security.

[MaraMan]

Interesting thread. I struggle to make a decision about retiring to be honest. I am 55, still do a largely unrewarding but highly paid job, have a nice mortgage free house, decent amounts in ISAs and Pensions, but have what seems to be a far from frugal lifestyle. Think I will retire soon but am worried that the shock of a significant fall in annual "income" will be an even bigger shock to the system, although I hasten to add we won't be on our uppers. Its very difficult to know how much income we will "need" in retirement. I guess its down to how much discretionary spending you want/need. We enjoy a lot of travel, high end cruises, flying in the front of the plane, that sort of thing. We do what we want, and get what we want, when we want. The idea of a retired frugal lifestyle doesn't really float my boat, of course though this is no criticism of those for whom that is either an enjoyable reality or a realistic aspiration.
Each to their own I suppose, just not sure what my own is at the moment. I will probably just jump in and see if I can swim.
By the way we have 4 adult children between us and they are convinced we are loaded so we will need a way to manage expectations with them.
MM