The Lemon Fool

It probably won't happen but apparently the government is looking at exempting over 50s from income tax for a year in order to attract them back into the workforce. If you are already FIRED would you be tempted by such an offer ?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/no-income-tax-over-50s-get-people-back-into-work/

Ministers are looking at plans to give tax breaks to people to come back to work after Covid-19.

As part of a major overhaul to boost employment, people would be offered the tax break to start work again.

Treasury officials are being urged by senior ministers to consider exempting people over the age of 50 from income tax entirely for up to a year to encourage them to start working again.

The plans come amid conners millions of people have opted out of the labour market since Covid.

I think they might be more successful if they persuaded employers to massively increase the number of part-time or job share opportunities that they offer.

Do you actually have to work to get the tax break? Otherwise it would be neat way for me to get a load of tax free cash out of my SIPP. I guess that would defeat the purpose though, so probably not

Scott.

swill453 wrote:Do you actually have to work to get the tax break? Otherwise it would be neat way for me to get a load of tax free cash out of my SIPP. I guess that would defeat the purpose though, so probably not

I wonder how it could actually work with someone in receipt of PAYE pension income. Even more so if the pension income went into 40% tax territory.

Actually it's a measure more likely to encourage retirement, on paper anyway, as otherwise the never-retired doing the same job get hit for more tax than the previously retired. NI could be waived for those under State Pension age, but that runs into the same discrimination problem.

How would those already over 50 in a job feel about working next to a returnee
I would be so annoyed

pje16 wrote:How would those already over 50 in a job feel about working next to a returnee
I would be so annoyed

They would persuade the management to make them redundant and then rehire them a few months later?

BullDog wrote:

pje16 wrote:How would those already over 50 in a job feel about working next to a returnee
I would be so annoyed

They would persuade the management to make them redundant and then rehire them a few months later?

that's a bit of as gamble though
This is typical of UK Gov being thick

Alaric wrote:

swill453 wrote:Do you actually have to work to get the tax break? Otherwise it would be neat way for me to get a load of tax free cash out of my SIPP. I guess that would defeat the purpose though, so probably not

I wonder how it could actually work with someone in receipt of PAYE pension income. Even more so if the pension income went into 40% tax territory.

Actually it's a measure more likely to encourage retirement, on paper anyway, as otherwise the never-retired doing the same job get hit for more tax than the previously retired. NI could be waived for those under State Pension age, but that runs into the same discrimination problem.

Yes, if you retire early and defer receiving pensions, then you can enjoy quite a light tax burden on your investment income for many years, That has started to change under this government and Labour is threatening to do a lot more. But at least in terms of the tax on capital gains and dividends, they are quite lightly taxed if you have no other income.

But I would never work again as I quite simply would not tolerate having anyone else telling me what to do, or even trying to. It's not about the money; the great thing about being retired is never having to do anything you don't want to do. And you can't put a price on that.

pje16 wrote:

BullDog wrote:

pje16 wrote:How would those already over 50 in a job feel about working next to a returnee
I would be so annoyed

They would persuade the management to make them redundant and then rehire them a few months later?

that's a bit of as gamble though
This is typical of UK Gov being thick

Not going to happen anyway. UK politicians are too busy acting like a Punch and Judy show. Sickening to watch really all the while the country is falling apart at the seams.

Lootman wrote:

Alaric wrote:

swill453 wrote:Do you actually have to work to get the tax break? Otherwise it would be neat way for me to get a load of tax free cash out of my SIPP. I guess that would defeat the purpose though, so probably not

I wonder how it could actually work with someone in receipt of PAYE pension income. Even more so if the pension income went into 40% tax territory.

Actually it's a measure more likely to encourage retirement, on paper anyway, as otherwise the never-retired doing the same job get hit for more tax than the previously retired. NI could be waived for those under State Pension age, but that runs into the same discrimination problem.

Yes, if you retire early and defer receiving pensions, then you can enjoy quite a light tax burden on your investment income for many years, That has started to change under this government and Labour is threatening to do a lot more. But at least in terms of the tax on capital gains and dividends, they are quite lightly taxed if you have no other income.

But I would never work again as I quite simply would not tolerate having anyone else telling me what to do, or even trying to. It's not about the money; the great thing about being retired is never having to do anything you don't want to do. And you can't put a price on that.

Indeed. Though for the latter part of my working life and I was being paid for what I knew rather than what I did I could tell the management exactly how things were. It's really liberating when you find yourself in positions where you really don't care what the management think or do. In a way it's better than being retired, it's more entertaining!

Whilst I enjoyed my work and the people I didn't enjoy the commute and time away from home.

It's nice to sleep on my own pillow and not watch the traffic news every Friday morning. Having got used to being at home and the freedoms, Tax free isn't enough to tempt me back.

I'm not sure what would. Maybe if I was within cycle commuting distance and mixing a bit of brain with brawn opportunities. The travel might be OK if I can pick and choose what and where. Plus what about the commitments I've already made. That holiday date needs to be agreed and the sailing trip will depend on the weather and what if I don't cover the expected daily distances on my bike ride, will they agree that I can basically come and go as I please. How would that affect my colleagues? Whilst I can change in time so they don't suffer as much, ie I would plan less, it won't help now. Would they expect me to work Christmas day? I had to in the past and even enjoyed some of them it might tilt the scales

The money was never the main driver anyway but would I want a premium to go back? It might be nice to be earning if 2023 turns out badly.

I remember the Mrs boss saying "Have you thought this though" when she took early retirement. I wasn't sure if he was really concerned for her or the remains of the company and himself. Mute point as he was let go just after she left.

I wonder who it's aimed at, nurses and doctors. Rail staff. Basically anyone on strike. I know that sometimes you have to be creative but it might cause more problems that it solves.

The next government's problem though.

There's a whole government task force across multiple departments currently trying to work out how to reduce the number of economically inactive 50 year olds as its compounding the UK's labour shortage and expected to have a significant negative impact on growth.

Those who have retired early through FIRE will probably take lots of persuading, although some of the initiatives are expected to be around promoting voluntary work. Financial MOTs have also been mentioned to try to scare people into realising they might need more money than they think for retirement.

From what I've heard, many workplaces have become quite hostile places for older workers. Lots of leavers have cited the increasing amount of woke propaganda and professional grievance mongers as a major reason for retiring early.

"The civil service, the NHS, higher education and far too many private companies have become a paradise for “recreational offence-takers” who love to air their concocted grievances. On one occasion, Gareth had a complaint lodged against him for using the term Anglo-Saxon"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/01/11/over-50s-driven-work-wokery/

Sod that for a game of soldiers. Increasing incentives to not work means that fewer people will work.

SalvorHardin wrote:From what I've heard, many workplaces have become quite hostile places for older workers. Lots of leavers have cited the increasing amount of woke propaganda and professional grievance mongers as a major reason for retiring early.

Yes, even back in the 1990s when I last worked, there were an increasing number of mandatory "seminars" to attend on diversity, sexual harassment and various forms of "sensitivity" training. I can only imagine it is much worse now.

The other thing I sense, from talking to people I know over 50 who still work, is that so much of the admin aspects of work are now outsourced to the employee, who of course is supposed to have a smart phone and other devices at home so that they are potentially on the hook 24 hours a day.

As a fairly minimal smartphone user, and only since 2019, I am not remotely interested in that. I recall in 1997 my then boss offered me a free Blackberry. He was stunned when I said I did not want it.

Maybe, but it depends on the proposal. I could manage a morning per week in a coffee shop if they let me off the tax on my investment income

I would need several weeks annual holiday or flexi-time as well though once the sailing weather arrived.

I'm retiring in a couple of months, so possibly this is aimed at the likes of me.

Or possibly others of a similar age.

OK, let us address the elephant in the room, what the hell has it got to do with the government?

Let us ignore for a moment their decision to tax the high paid* and those who are even forced to contribute to pensions, leading to the financially forced retirement of medical consultants for financial reasons.

No let us assume that they can provide bribes, ignoring where they get that money. Why should they?
Is it because of the loss of experience to productive industries? Well isn't it up to businesses to invest in training?
Is it because we have a lack of young people? Most risking their lives trying to get here are young!

Sorry, but I can't see ensuring that people work, as a function of government. Are we citizens or slaves?

By the way, I voted that I could be bribed, but probably not.

*Ps I am, and always have been, a standard rate tax payer. That will change over the next 5-7 years to being a 0 rate tax payer. I'm really looking forward to that fact.

if you lazy buggers could get back to work... That would be great lv Rishi

dingdong wrote:There's a whole government task force across multiple departments currently trying to work out how to reduce the number of economically inactive 50 year olds as its compounding the UK's labour shortage

If they offered me £50k plus a Civil Service pension to sit around for a year pondering how to get people like me back in work, I'd jump at it. Especially if it was tax free.

DrFfybes wrote:

dingdong wrote:There's a whole government task force across multiple departments currently trying to work out how to reduce the number of economically inactive 50 year olds as its compounding the UK's labour shortage

If they offered me £50k plus a Civil Service pension to sit around for a year pondering how to get people like me back in work, I'd jump at it. Especially if it was tax free.

Would you do that if it meant spending 40 hours a week in some office somewhere? And 40 hours a week when you can't do anything else?

That is about £1,000 a week or £25 an hour. Now I feel sure a lot of people would love that. But I don't need the money but do value my time. Probably would not even do it for £100,000 a year.

This policy would be demented. A gift to the richest in society.

How about one of these policies:

1) Fund free childcare for parents returning to work.

2) Tell the retired over 50s that they will be liable for income taxes on an assumed £30k of wage earnings whether they work or not. They can then choose whether to pay the tax or return to work and earn tax free.