No point.

[baldchap]

Having watched the local retiree's from my industry at annual functions etc, I can honestly say that those who went closer to 60 than 65 have lasted on average about 10 years longer.

Does 'social security' imply pensions or other sickness/mobility related payments?

Still a believer in building the nest egg and getting out early, or at least moving to an office/indoor job.

[Darka]

I intend getting out as soon as I can.

Will have enough things to do to keep me active and prolong my life/retirement.

No way will I continue to work for the man any longer than I need to.

[Alaric]

If you retire early you’re more likely to die early as well.

Before jumping to too many conclusions, perhaps the authors of the study might have tested for a correlation between ill-health and retiring early. Defined benefit schemes have ill health retirement provisions which can be more generous than their usual early retirement benefits.

[SalvorHardin]

Before jumping to too many conclusions, perhaps the authors of the study might have tested for a correlation between ill-health and retiring early. Defined benefit schemes have ill health retirement provisions which can be more generous than their usual early retirement benefits.

That was also my first reaction. A major reason why people retire early is because they are ill and ill people as a group have a higher mortality rate. In my time as an Actuary sorting out pension misselling cases I used to come across a lot of this type of case: ill health retirement then dead within a year.

However another reason for premature death has nothing to do with ill-health and is responsible for part of the increased mortality that the study found. This comes from many people defining themselves by their occupation and place of work to such an extent that upon retirement they suffer the loss of a major part of their reason to exist. This can be particularly hard for people whose social life was to some extent bound up with their work because even if they still remain in touch they will forever be an "outsider" not privvy to much of the gossip and other social interaction.

If they don't find something to substitute for this then they may find that they don't have a good reason to get up in the morning and they may rapidly decline.

In my case my identity was never bound up with my work so I knew that I wasn't going to have that problem. Also my early retirement plans started several years before retiring so I had already mentally adjusted to not working. Nevertheless I still signed up for a degree course to start shortly after I retired to ensure that I had something to focus upon.

The converse is that people who buy an annuity out of choice have longer life expectancies than those who don't. This is self-selection; people who are ill or who expect to die early (family history gives them a lot of inside knowledge) don't buy regular annuities so they remove themselves from the pool of potential annuity purchasers thus increasing their life expectancy.

[moorfield]

I intend getting out as soon as I can.

Will have enough things to do to keep me active and prolong my life/retirement.

No way will I continue to work for the man any longer than I need to.

Ditto.
But I would like to keep brain engaged, and keep coming back to the idea of some sort of (combination of) academic study/research/work. I'm not sure how feasible that might be starting from late 40s, I do hold a (now rusting) undergraduate physics degree though.

[midnightcatprowl]

keep coming back to the idea of some sort of (combination of) academic study/research/work. I'm not sure how feasible that might be starting from late 40s

Well you can always study at least if you are self-funding (and indeed research too!). One of my ex-customers was an art teacher. She must have had a first degree but not sure if she ever did a Masters. Some time after retiring (not early retirement) she embarked on a self-funded PhD which she in due course achieved. She did the PhD because she wanted to study a certain theory or line of thought of her own. It didn't lead to work - to be fair she didn't want it to - but it did lead to invitations to speak and/or contribute at a variety of national and international conferences which obviously gave her a great deal of interest and pleasure.

N.B. On the other hand be wary about self-funded study particularly at PhD level. The problem about self-funding is that if something goes wrong you are on your own, unlike people funded by organisations or companies which may kick up a hell of a fuss if something they are paying for isn't happening in the way they want. My customer's supervisor became ill and she got stuck because it became impossible for her to complete her PhD without a supervisor but the university wouldn't do anything about the situation. It was absolutely clear that the academic who was her supervisor was, unfortunately, never going to be able to return to work but the university didn't want to deal with the situation and, under cover of being 'kind' to the ill academic was easily able to turn a deaf ear to the protests of a self-funding student. This meant that the PhD took much longer than it should which is particularly relevant as you get older and which is also relevant to other people starting to research in a similar area so that your work becomes of less interest. The latter was a great source of annoyance and frustration to my customer. If you were younger and looking to research/work post PhD the delay could be a lot more than irritating.

[tjh290633]

I carried on to 65, although there was a possible exit at 57. As it happens, I had an offer to join a company which I knew well, and had a thoroughly enjoyable 8 years. I've been retired 19 years now, and I think the secret is to find something to do which you enjoy doing. In my case it was as a volunteer driver for our local Community Bus, which involved driving local services around the villages in the area, nominally one day per month, but also doing excursions and private hires.

There is a lot of need for volunteers, particularly in the charity field, and accountants are in particular demand. You may find that your skills can fill an unfilled vacancy.

TJH

[thebarns]

I have seen studies that say it both ways re early retirement and link to health and mortality.

Assuming there are no underlying health issues that are causing the early retirement, I find it really hard to believe it is anything other than health enhancing.

At leat I hope so !

I am going to voluntarily retire early in 3 months from being the lead owner of a private sector business, managing that business of 50 people and a customer bank, often alone, for the last 15 years.

The cumulative work stress that builds over a number of years in that position each year was having different impacts on my health.

Following a successful sale of the business 3 months ago, I have to say I have felt like a new man health wise over these last few weeks and relish the thought of being free to do as I wish, when I want.

This has to lead to a healthier physical and mental lifestyle.

[XFool]

Just keep working.

We already know you’re better off financially the later you begin claiming Social Security. Now it seems there’s another reason to hold off on collecting those checks: If you retire early you’re more likely to die early as well.

It goes on to say:

A new study from Maria Fitzpatrick at Cornell University and Timothy Moore at the University of Melbourne shows a striking correlation between Social Security claims for early takers and a jump in mortality.

On my desk by tomorrow morning please! Five hundred lines: "Correlation is not causation."

e.g. Did you notice this sentence in the quoted article?

"The paper notes that the phenomenon may be linked partly to existing health problems that force some to stop working early.

[DiamondEcho]

Ditto. But I would like to keep brain engaged, and keep coming back to the idea of some sort of (combination of) academic study/research/work. I'm not sure how feasible that might be starting from late 40s, I do hold a (now rusting) undergraduate physics degree though.

Seen this several times, with people who've done well in careers then suddenly get spat out earlier than they expected. The immediate money side matters less (to such people) it's the loss of purpose, and then status that is self-destructive. Why get up until 11am if you don't have to? 1pm? 3pm? Get up at 8am, get drunk, sleep from lunch to dinner and repeat round the clock. It's quite fun for a while - this is your 'permitted play-time going crazy for a while', after years of crazy hours - isn't it? The day, week, etc loses it's normal imposed rhythm vs the rest of society, and you have to re-impose it yourself.
Status - You were Bob the builder, Quentin the banker, Max the biochemist, or Mike the engineer. Your job defines who and what you 'are', at least in the eyes of others. This is basic level of knowing how to start interacting with people you meet - 'Who are you, and what do you do?' - It's all social triangulation > 'How, and at what level, should I interact with this person?'. The field of relative status-levels figures more than you realise until you lose your job and you're not even in the game any more. Now you're just unemployed.
I had a competitive career, so even socially people were passively competitive (apparently); but being suddenly on the outside really brought it home to me how tribal it was amongst the surviving insiders.

So @Moorfield, and within the above random thoughts. I think you might consider, is their economic need behind study? Do you hope to accrue future income from it? Or is it purely to keep you occupied, give you reason to get up and goals to strive for?
If it's the former I did some quals along those lines. I had worked in finance, but from a time when you were hired on 'sharpness', and promoted on experience/results. I had qualifications but none relevant to that field until post-career! Post-career - To keep me occupied and give me marketable skills at the same time I did the AAT accountancy courses by home-study. I'm glad I did [can elaborate further how that went is anyone might possibly be interested in that].
If it's not for saleable skills but to 'keep your brain engaged' as you suggest, you have to think carefully about what really interests you. Things that resonate, inspire, that you'd get up at 8am to begin studying at home, when otherwise you wouldn't bother. I suspect that's harder than it sounds. There are many things I'd be interested to study and learn, but it would ultimately always be discretionary to continue studies, so it would have to REALLY grab me, and keep hold of me. It would have to be something I really believed I'd see through to the end. I've a friend, your age, retired engineer [and ex-RAF] and he studied Modern History via the OU, graduating this summer. He's now just enrolled for an MA in the same - reckon he found his niche.

[Getting late > better stop rambling]

[DiamondEcho]

- I have seen studies that say it both ways re early retirement and link to health and mortality.
Assuming there are no underlying health issues that are causing the early retirement, I find it really hard to believe it is anything other than health enhancing. At least I hope so !
- I am going to voluntarily retire early in 3 months ... and relish the thought of being free to do as I wish, when I want.
This has to lead to a healthier physical and mental lifestyle.

- Both ways. Perhaps it's better if ending employment is expected, planned, rather than via say sudden career redundancy. I've seen redundancy almost destroy people, not just their careers, but their families, accrued wealth, and they lost their homes. For some people it's devastating.
- I think the idea of retirement, putting your feet up, instant contentment etc is a myth many of us just nebulously expect. But I think we are inherently more driven than we realise, we have to feed a perpetual sense of achievement, and hence regular doses of pride-booster - whether studying for a degree, taking up a part-time job and doing it with pride, or starting and harvesting a prime vegetable patch in the garden. My dad is 95, hasn't had a need to work for 30 years, but he's up at 7-8am every morning and busy. I used to find this weird, but now I understand (not that he'd discuss it/why/how he feels about it). It's a reason to get up, a purpose, an external framework to his day he's chosen to impose upon himself - a form of self-discipline. I feel if he didn't have that resolve he might not still be here; and I have to say I take it as a warning/lesson for the future.

[TUK020]

Posted this before - a link to an article by Peter Drucker "Managing Oneself".
Well worth reading
It covers a wide variety of topics, one of which is the second half of your life.
It proposes that you should think of this as a new career, one which isn't defined by the need to earn.

http://academic.udayton.edu/lawrenceulr ... neself.pdf

[DiamondEcho]

Thanks for that link which I downloaded; I look forward to reading it. The first paragraph resonates, the idea that 'People have to learn to manage themselves'. I think that is a parallel of what I was suggesting, that once the 'external demands, the frame-work' created by career, employment, a routine driven by the demands of others goes, you have to recreate some form of framework yourself.
If I find it useful then perhaps I might suggest MrsDE read it too. She is planning to retire early, perhaps next year, and still has the lovely idea of not getting out of bed, lying around all day reading and relaxing and so on I've tried to gently convey that IME it IS great fun for a while, maybe a few months, but the novelty does wear off. That to me is the danger point, which you'd be wise to recognise when it comes, and preferably have a way forward in mind re: how to create a framework for your future.

[stevensfo]

Some very apt and thought-provoking posts here, most of which I agree with.

As a student and immediately after graduating, I had loads of horrible jobs in factories and farms, and I remember the guys in their early sixties sweeping the factory floor, crossing the days off till they could retire and boasting how they were going to do absolutely nothing but relax in front of the TV every day.
Fast forward to my boss in research who had to be almost dragged kicking and screaming into retirement at 65. He just adored what he did and hated having to leave. Fortunately he went to New Zealand soon after and got offered an honorary Professorship. To my knowledge, he's in his 80s and still writing articles for scientific journals.

I'm most definitely in the camp of those with no strong feelings about my work, so rather looking forward to retirement. I only ended up in science because I thought it would be easier to get a job but always retained a love of the Humanities, especially literature and languages. Consequently, I'm doing an online CertHE and plan to get at least to Diploma level by the time I retire. The problem here is that, above CertHE, there aren't that many places to choose from. I only know about O.U., OCA and London International.

My list of things to do in retirement has got to the point now where I reckon I'm going to be a lot busier than I am now!

Steve

[Itsallaguess]

This is something I've thought about on and off quite often over the years.

It seems that we sometimes put so much thought and effort into the accumulation of wealth, that we tend to forget about needing the time to properly enjoy it...

To paraphrase Mark Twain and Will Rogers, I think there must be a period in most financially-successful people's lives where they must think of time a little like the 'land' in their well known quote, but ironically, it might get to the point where it's still possible to actually buy land with what you might have accumulated later in life, but it's simply impossible to buy more time.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[swill453]

It seems that we sometimes put so much thought and effort into the accumulation of wealth, that we tend to forget about needing the time to properly enjoy it...

To paraphrase Mark Twain and Will Rogers, I think there must be a period in most financially-successful people's lives where they must think of time a little like the 'land' in their well known quote, but ironically, it might get to the point where it's still possible to actually buy land with what you might have accumulated later in life, but it's simply impossible to buy more time.....

I can pinpoint the exact point* when I switched from being an accumulator to a spender. If all goes to plan and the laws of averages, it happened when I still had more than 1/3 of my time to go.

Absolutely no regrets so far.

* - 00:00 on 01/07/2014 to be precise

Scott.

[thebarns]

Using some sweeping generalisations.....

I'd guess most people are not really passionate and love their job, most do it for money.

I am about to retire aged 52 from a stressful occupation and position within that occupation.

I did keep going through it all as I knew financial security was getting closer and closer as the occupation is well paid.

Within 3 months I will be free to do whatever I want whether that be nothing or different hobbies or voluntary work.

Hopefully, I am still young enough to enjoy the fruits of the previous 30 years' of hard and stressful work.

Most people I know work purely for the money aspect and thus would cease and choose another line of work less well paid or pursue hobbies if financial security allowed them to do this.

But now I am free to do what I want to do, rather than be chained to a well paid job which has now allowed me to have this choice. Had I not gone down this route, then like many of my contemporaries, I may not have been in a position of financial security for another 10-15 years.

Health wise, I find this very liberating.

[DiamondEcho]

This is something I've thought about on and off quite often over the years.
It seems that we sometimes put so much thought and effort into the accumulation of wealth, that we tend to forget about needing the time to properly enjoy it...

Yes agreed, and I think it can be rather chicken and egg, hence something simply put off for another day. It comes back to the idea of 'How much is enough?'. I worked through my career, invested, re-invested on and on, and saw my wealth grow. But after some years I realised I didn't know how much income, even ballpark, I needed to fund the lifestyle our household aspires to come R-day.
I found this budget planner on MoneySavingExpert https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banki ... t-planning I found it very helpful as it goes down into a lot of potential detail, all the expected, but also things like annual cost of gifts in the family, charitable donations, holidays ( cost*frequency), cost of car, maintenance and how often might you wish to replace it? And maaany more things I probably wouldn't have thought of.
The first time I did it I just keyed in the major things, and the total wasn't as much as I'd feared. A couple of years later and I updated my data. I'm now on about v3 or 4 and I hope I'm getting closer to a realistic number.
I found it a rather uncomfortable process the first time, as I feared what the total budget might come out as; I really had no idea since I (now) haven't lived in the UK for 10 years. But even if I'd never left the UK, it would be a process of 'my life now' vs 'what I aspire to' that I'd have learned a lot from.


- I like the analogy too, thought provoking!

[absolutezero]

I do hold a (now rusting) undergraduate physics degree though.

We're peas in a pod!
I wonder how many of us come from a science/engineering type background. I suspect quite a few.

[tjh290633]

I have a degree in chemistry and worked mostly in process plant contracting, usually for the glass industry.

TJH