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Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

General discussions about equity high-yield income strategies
nickd01
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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126374

Postby nickd01 » March 20th, 2018, 12:43 pm

tjh290633 wrote:I reformatted your original list and got rid of the Tabs, which were the problem. I've now looked at it a bit more:

Stock                                          %ofNotional   Profit/Loss %   % Median   Funds    Equities   % Median
Anglo American Plc Ord USD0.54945 1.33% -33.59% 58.21% 1.33% 62.44%
xxxxx
xxxxx
Vanguard Inv. UK FTSE DvpWldExUK EqIdx A 3.07% 4.79% 134.35% 3.07%
Vodafone Group Plc Ord USD 0.20 20/21 2.78% -14.76% 121.66% 2.78% 130.52%

Total 100.00% 38.37% 61.63%
Median 2.29% 5.12% 2.13%

You are 38% funds and 62% equities. Looking at the comparison, taking percentage median as a guideline, you are horribly unbalanced, both in shares and in funds. For the shares, with 23 holdings, I would set twice the median holding value as an absolute limit for any one share. Some are probably ripe for disposal. A good case for a measure of rebalancing.

Regarding the funds, if you wish to keep them, I would go for a simple mix of one global and one UK oriented, and I would go for ITs rather than ETFs or OEICS. You may feel otherwise.

TJH


Very helpful, thanks TJH.

Just so I understand your comments further; you comments are based around my holdings being more equally weighted. So, I should trim my bigger holdings and redistribute the cash across other positions or open new ones? That does make sense, I've always wondered about 'tinkering' but now it's been spelled out so clearly I can see how it's un-balanced.

I need to be honest with myself now, and decide whether I need income or growth over the next few years.

Your comments re: IT's vs ETF's - is that simply a personal perference to liking more actively managed funds or is there something else that steers you away from ETF's and the like?

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126375

Postby absolutezero » March 20th, 2018, 12:44 pm

JohnB wrote:I have one individual share holding from years back, LLoydsTSB, and get AGM invitations, short/long annual reports restructuring notifications, and dividend cheques/slips (not that they paid any for years). I guess if I'd bought that through a broker the dividend paperwork would go, but don't you still get all the other letters?

(I also deal with a lot more for mum, as her shares do like to chop and change)

This will depend if you
*hold shares directly, via CREST or certificated
*hold via nominee in an ISA or most online brokers

If you hold directly then you will receive stuff in the post unless you instruct them not to.
If you hold via nominee you tend not to receive stuff unless you specifically ask for it.

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126377

Postby kiloran » March 20th, 2018, 12:47 pm

nickd01 wrote:Thanks all for your replies; apologies for the delay in responding. Below are my holdings, as a percentage of notional. I tried to format it neatly, honestly - any tips?!

Formatting is easy if you use: http://lemonfoolfinancialsoftware.weebl ... ormat.html

You can practise on the Test board: viewforum.php?f=28

--kiloran

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126380

Postby vrdiver » March 20th, 2018, 1:04 pm

Lootman wrote:...in a taxable account then the work does increase with more holdings, because of the need to determine and report dividends and gains. It is for that reason that I hold smaller positions in my ISA and (a smaller number of) larger positions in my taxable account.


Mrs VRD holds part of her HYP in a taxable account: once a year they send her (via secure message) an annual summary which allows her to transcribe one "total dividends received*" figure from the report over to her tax return. The number of shares involved is irrelevant for this.

For CGT purposes, the same report shows sales, but her spreadsheet (OK, my spreadsheet**) shows average purchase price, sales price, quantity sold, and profit (#shares x (sales price - avg price)). The process takes about 10 minutes, sometime in July when she normally sorts the tax return out.

I appreciate that others may have more complicated, multiple account holdings and complicated affairs, but at the basic level, it's not hard work.

VRD


*All UK shares, so no issues with foreign holdings.
**Created so that CGT was not a nasty surprise, but could be modeled so as to help decide whether a sale was a good or bad decision!)

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126388

Postby vrdiver » March 20th, 2018, 1:20 pm

Several posters have mentioned "TR" is more important than dividends during the accumulation phase. Some have gone on to suggest converting to HYP from some other strategy at the point of retirement. This advice worries me.

I agree that Total Return is what matters during accumulation, but the accumulation phase should IMHO, also include learning how to manage whatever strategy will be used during decumulation. For that reason, I recommend anybody thinking of using HYP to generate dividend income for retirement, to run a realistic HYP first, for as long as possible. It doesn't need to be 100% of their wealth, but to "jump" ship onto a new, completely untested strategy (from the investor's point of view) at the very point when financial disaster can no longer be compensated for by further work is a brave move!

As to what age is too late to start - tomorrow! Today is the perfect time to start if not (investing for retirement) already ;)

I started running my HYP in 2004 at age 40, managing to retire at age 50, living off dividends only. And yes, a redundancy, and throwing a lot of earnings at the HYP helped :) but it was watching the annual dividends total rocket that inspired me to keep at it, whereas with share prices (as is currently happening) seeing my TR plummet is discomfiting, but really not that big a deal (focusing on dividends really does help to avoid following the market in its bipolar swings!)

VRD

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126396

Postby Julian » March 20th, 2018, 1:24 pm

vrdiver wrote:
Lootman wrote:...in a taxable account then the work does increase with more holdings, because of the need to determine and report dividends and gains. It is for that reason that I hold smaller positions in my ISA and (a smaller number of) larger positions in my taxable account.


Mrs VRD holds part of her HYP in a taxable account: once a year they send her (via secure message) an annual summary which allows her to transcribe one "total dividends received*" figure from the report over to her tax return. The number of shares involved is irrelevant for this.

For CGT purposes, the same report shows sales, but her spreadsheet (OK, my spreadsheet**) shows average purchase price, sales price, quantity sold, and profit (#shares x (sales price - avg price)). The process takes about 10 minutes, sometime in July when she normally sorts the tax return out.

I appreciate that others may have more complicated, multiple account holdings and complicated affairs, but at the basic level, it's not hard work.

VRD


*All UK shares, so no issues with foreign holdings.
**Created so that CGT was not a nasty surprise, but could be modeled so as to help decide whether a sale was a good or bad decision!)

Even for someone who only has a single nominee broker and thinks they have no foreign holdings it can for some people be a bit more complicated.

Quite a few Investment Trusts listed on the LSE are actually domiciled in Guernsey or Jersey and quite a few of the Vanguard funds (but maybe not the Vanguard ETFs, I'm not sure because I only have funds) are domiciled in Ireland. This means that one has to split out dividends from those holdings on a per-country basis. Some nominee brokers are better than others in breaking things out by country but some simply total the dividends from non-UK shares and so one needs to work out how much of the total is from Guernsey, Jersey, Ireland etc. It's not the end of the world but in these cases it is not quite as trivially simple as Mrs VRD's case.

I speak from experience by the way. Because of the above I migrated all of my non-UK-domiciled LSE holdings to a single one of my 6 nominee brokers so that I only have to do further dissection on one of my nominee brokers' annual summaries and the other 5 I can do what Mrs VRD does.

- Julian

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126398

Postby Lootman » March 20th, 2018, 1:25 pm

vrdiver wrote:
Lootman wrote:...in a taxable account then the work does increase with more holdings, because of the need to determine and report dividends and gains. It is for that reason that I hold smaller positions in my ISA and (a smaller number of) larger positions in my taxable account.

Mrs VRD holds part of her HYP in a taxable account: once a year they send her (via secure message) an annual summary which allows her to transcribe one "total dividends received*" figure from the report over to her tax return. The number of shares involved is irrelevant for this.

For CGT purposes, the same report shows sales, but her spreadsheet (OK, my spreadsheet**) shows average purchase price, sales price, quantity sold, and profit (#shares x (sales price - avg price)). The process takes about 10 minutes, sometime in July when she normally sorts the tax return out.

I appreciate that others may have more complicated, multiple account holdings and complicated affairs, but at the basic level, it's not hard work.

*All UK shares, so no issues with foreign holdings.
**Created so that CGT was not a nasty surprise, but could be modeled so as to help decide whether a sale was a good or bad decision!)

Actually you don't need "number of shares" nor "sales price" nor "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses. You just need the net proceeds number and the net cost basis, and identify the security of course. So that's just three data points - the gain or loss itself is derived.

I believe that all brokers are supposed to send a consolidated tax certificate for the dividends. I just use that, as your wife does, but there are some here who like to manually record and compute them, and then the work is proportionate to the number of holdings and dividend payments.

I have foreign shares and options, so mine is more complicated than that in any event.

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126410

Postby TUK020 » March 20th, 2018, 1:46 pm

nickd01 wrote:Hi All,

I've had a shares portfolio for a while now, but to be honest I've realised I'm less of an avid / active investor than I thought so therefore I'm not doing too well. For example, I only seem to receive a dividend income of £2,773 for the last financial year on assets of around £85k split over around 25 shares and 5 or so ETF / Vanguard products.

I'm a little concerned as I read of many of you 'living off dividends' (Obviously I have no idea of your asset sizes!) but I cannot currently see when this will ever happen. I'm early 40's now and I need to really build assets but I'm a bit worried I've missed the boat.

My question - or I suppose musing - is should I sell out of my single stocks and go for the more passive approach in a few ETF's and Investment Trusts? Or, should I stick with a more rigid HYP approach and try and make it work. I suppose, only I can answer this really but I was wondering if anyone else has had the realisation this might not be the right approach for them?

Maybe I just need to trim the portfolio and be a little more honest with myself. I think, to be honest, I'm maybe panicing a little as I really would like to have the option to cut back work once the mortgage is paid off (Around 15 years I suppose)

Nick


Nick,
a different perspective:
If all you do is look at your portfolio once every 6 months, and decide where to re-invest your dividends, then you are likely to be gaining an average real term increase of 7% per year, which equals doubling every decade (using a very rough interpretation of TJH's returns, and assumptions about average inflation rate). I am also assuming that this is in an ISA, saving you tax considerations.
Your £2700 per year now will be £10800 per year in two decades time.

This is the equivalent of state pension all over again.
This would seem a worthwhile return for the effort
TUK020

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126487

Postby tjh290633 » March 20th, 2018, 5:27 pm

nickd01 wrote:
Very helpful, thanks TJH.

Just so I understand your comments further; you comments are based around my holdings being more equally weighted. So, I should trim my bigger holdings and redistribute the cash across other positions or open new ones? That does make sense, I've always wondered about 'tinkering' but now it's been spelled out so clearly I can see how it's un-balanced.

I need to be honest with myself now, and decide whether I need income or growth over the next few years.

Your comments re: IT's vs ETF's - is that simply a personal perference to liking more actively managed funds or is there something else that steers you away from ETF's and the like?


The equal weighting refers to the HYP part, and I adopted the principle of trimming back when a couple of mine went very heavy (LLOY and Zeneca in 1997). I decided on the 10% maximum weight then. With a much bigger portfolio it is now about 5%. How you go about the rebalancing is up to you. I haven't looked at the yields of your shares, but I have a method of using the yield of the shares and the inverse weight (i.e. lighter ranks heavier) to decide which shares are in line for topping up. However you may wish to sell some laggards or low-yield shares and replace them with new ones.

I am not a fan of tracker funds, and still have some legacy holdings in OEICs, M&G Dividend, Threadneedle UK Equity Income and JPM Natural Resources (into which I still pay a monthly subscription). My wife also has some BNY Mellon Newton funds, UK Equity, UK Equity Income, Continental European and Oriental. Oriental has been the best performer. JPM NRes has been a good performer since first bought in 1970 as Ebor Commodity fund. I have taken cash out on 4 occasions, to inject it into my HYP portfolio, and the IRR to date is about 11.8%.

I also hold some ITs on behalf of my grandchildren, and all of them have beaten the market during the time that I have held them. The return depends on the starting date, but Witan, for example, has been held for over 16 years, and the growth on the share price has been 6.3% pa, whereas the FTSE100 has grown by 1.9% pa over the same period. That's why I don't like trackers.

TJH

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126494

Postby Gengulphus » March 20th, 2018, 5:51 pm

Lootman wrote:Actually you don't need "number of shares" nor "sales price" nor "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses. You just need the net proceeds number and the net cost basis, and identify the security of course. So that's just three data points - the gain or loss itself is derived.

Agreed that you don't need "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses.

You don't need "number of shares" if you only ever sell the entirety of a holding. If you sell part of a holding, however, you need to 'apportion' the net cost basis between the part sold and the part kept, and for that you need to know the fraction of the number of shares in the original holding that you sold - which is of course the number of shares sold divided by the number of shares in the holding before the sale.

Much less important in practice, there is also a very marginal case in which you might want the gross proceeds of the sale, which is "number of shares" times "sale price" - i.e. it hasn't had the trading costs deducted like the net proceeds. It might just be needed to establish whether you're required to report your gains and losses at all because you are required to report them if your total gross proceeds (for the tax year concerned) are over a threshold of 4 times the CGT allowance. It's not needed if (a) you have some other reason why you have to or want to report them; (b) your total net proceeds is over the threshold, since the total gross proceeds must then also be over; or (c) your total net proceeds are below the threshold by an amount that is clearly more than the total trading costs for the sales. But that does leave a narrow window in which the gross proceeds might be wanted to determine for certain whether you need to report gains and losses - though you could of course just decide that if you did happen to hit that narrow window, you would decide that you wanted to report them anyway!

So not a reason one strictly needs the gross proceeds, or equivalently the sale price - but it is a reason why one might want them.

Though actually I myself tend to want the sale price for another purpose, namely checking for typos and omissions in my records. In particular, if for each transaction involving a particular type of share I record its transaction type (basically buy vs sell), number of shares, transaction price, trading costs and total purchase costs/net sale proceeds, it's possible to automatically calculate what the last should be from the others and compare it with the figure I entered and flag up the problem if they're different. That will detect almost any typo in any of the figures entered. And another useful check is that the total effect of all my transactions to date on the number of that type of share should be the number of shares of that type in my broker account(s) - if it's not, I've probably omitted to record a transaction. (For example, I recently found such a "number of shares" mismatch on my holding of National Grid - turned out that I'd failed to record the 11-for-12 share consolidation that accompanied its special dividend in May last year.)

Gengulphus

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126496

Postby Lootman » March 20th, 2018, 6:01 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
Lootman wrote:Actually you don't need "number of shares" nor "sales price" nor "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses. You just need the net proceeds number and the net cost basis, and identify the security of course. So that's just three data points - the gain or loss itself is derived.

Agreed that you don't need "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses.

You don't need "number of shares" if you only ever sell the entirety of a holding. If you sell part of a holding, however, you need to 'apportion' the net cost basis between the part sold and the part kept, and for that you need to know the fraction of the number of shares in the original holding that you sold - which is of course the number of shares sold divided by the number of shares in the holding before the sale.

Yes, I almost always do sell an entire holding when I sell at all. But in the case of a partial sale then the cost basis number is the cost basis of the part I sell. So yes, I need to take account of the number of shares in doing that mental calculation. But having done that, I don't need to then record or document the number of shares itself on my spreadsheet. It's already been apportioned.

Perhaps what I should have said is that HMRC don't need to see the number of shares sold on my return.

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126500

Postby JohnB » March 20th, 2018, 6:04 pm

@TJH are you quoting the total return in each case? The FTSE index may have only risen 2%, but 16*3.5% dividends being reinvested makes a huge difference

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126506

Postby PinkDalek » March 20th, 2018, 6:20 pm

Gengulphus wrote:...
So not a reason one strictly needs the gross proceeds, or equivalently the sale price - but it is a reason why one might want them


Another reason might be to claim the incidental costs of disposal, against the Gross proceeds.

Lootman and I had a chat on this issue over at Taxes (Practical issues) last March. It was left in the air but the relevant part starts here:

viewtopic.php?p=40153#p40153

I'd be interested in your views on that thread over there, should you have the time or inclination.

Edit: The second page over there included this from Lootman:

PD, I will ask my accountant your related question when I talk to him, probably June or so, and report back.

Easily overlooked but did that conversation take place and, if so, I've just bumped the thread in case Lootman wishes to update?

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126595

Postby vagrantbrain » March 20th, 2018, 11:32 pm

I'm not far behind the OP - late 30s, mid 5-figure assets - and for a couple of years I based my investments round a HYP of the usual suspects supplemented by some european and US companies. The returns were perfectly acceptable but it just didn't sit right with me. I found having my investments in just 15 or 20 companies was too much risk for me and I would fret every time I read something negative.

Took the decision early last year to move in to ITs and ETFs and since then i've felt much happier and can now sleep at night! The core is based on having at least 50% in an ETF tracking the MSCI world index (covering all the developed countries) and up to 50% in ITs to cover areas I want to increase my expose such as the far east, technology, etc.

I've definitely noticed the drop in income but as it was just getting reinvested it's not an issue for me at this stage of my life. I think HYP is a good strategy if you're comfortable with it, and while i'm glad I did it as I learned a huge amount (including about myself), I don't think its for everyone.

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126598

Postby Charlottesquare » March 20th, 2018, 11:45 pm

Lootman wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
Lootman wrote:Actually you don't need "number of shares" nor "sales price" nor "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses. You just need the net proceeds number and the net cost basis, and identify the security of course. So that's just three data points - the gain or loss itself is derived.

Agreed that you don't need "average purchase price" for reporting gains and losses.

You don't need "number of shares" if you only ever sell the entirety of a holding. If you sell part of a holding, however, you need to 'apportion' the net cost basis between the part sold and the part kept, and for that you need to know the fraction of the number of shares in the original holding that you sold - which is of course the number of shares sold divided by the number of shares in the holding before the sale.

Yes, I almost always do sell an entire holding when I sell at all. But in the case of a partial sale then the cost basis number is the cost basis of the part I sell. So yes, I need to take account of the number of shares in doing that mental calculation. But having done that, I don't need to then record or document the number of shares itself on my spreadsheet. It's already been apportioned.

Perhaps what I should have said is that HMRC don't need to see the number of shares sold on my return.


But you do need to record the number of shares remaining in your records and their carrying pool cost in case you sell another less than entire holding in the future, or start mucking about repurchasing to augment the number held/pool value or heaven forbid you buy sell on same day or repurchase within 30 days. I used to have a client that was in and out of the same 12-15 shares like a yo yo, circa 200 sales a year and similar number of purchases, matching re CGT was a long, slow, process (should have used software)

Thankfully long term buy and hold hopefully reduces the burden.

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126615

Postby Gengulphus » March 21st, 2018, 2:06 am

JohnB wrote:I have one individual share holding from years back, LLoydsTSB, and get AGM invitations, short/long annual reports restructuring notifications, and dividend cheques/slips (not that they paid any for years). I guess if I'd bought that through a broker the dividend paperwork would go, but don't you still get all the other letters?

It depends on exactly how you use the broker to buy the shares. If you buy certificates through a broker, or if you buy in a broker CREST account, your holding is directly registered with the company under your name and address. Traditionally, that meant that the company send you all their shareholder communications by post; nowadays, it usually means that they send you the first set by post, and that first set includes (or even consists entirely of) a letter saying that they normally publish the shareholder communications on their website and only post you a letter saying that the new communications are available there (a simple letter is much cheaper for the company to print and post than e.g. an annual report - especially some of the monsters produced by e.g. insurance companies!). They do offer you the chance to opt for receiving hard copies by post if you want - I believe it's a legal requirement that shareholders can do that - and they often invite you to supply your email address so that they can email you to tell you that shareholder communications are available rather than posting you a letter.

If on the other hand you buy in a broker nominee account (much more common than broker CREST accounts), your shareholding is not directly registered with the company under your name and address. Instead, it is registered with the company under the broker's nominee company's name and address, usually combined with the shareholdings of many or all of the broker's other clients who hold that type of share in nominee accounts to form a single registered shareholding. So all the company knows is that the broker's nominee company holds a total of say 1,234,567 shares, and it can only send shareholder communications to the broker's nominee company (*). It's the broker's job to keep track of how those 1,234,567 shares are split up among their clients and pass on relevant communications, etc, as needed to the clients - for example, to split up the sums they receive as dividends correctly between their clients, or to pass details of corporate actions that want a response (e.g. rights issues) to their clients and collect the clients' responses, collate them and pass the result on to the company (for example, by telling the company the total number of rights their clients want to take up and keeping the individual client responses so that they can distribute the resulting shares correctly when they arrive).

One particular point worth making about the method used is that share ISAs have to be held in nominee accounts.

I should say that IMHO, both options have their disadvantages. Traditionally, the certificate (and CREST account) method produced vast amounts of paper through the post, with much of it devoted to details of little or no interest to ordinary individual shareholders. The more modern methods involving company websites get rid of the volume-of-paper problem, but if anything make the find-the-needles-of-useful-information-in-the-haystacks-of-detail problem worse (for instance, I've definitely seen a tendency for company annual reports to become longer and longer over the years...).

On the other hand, the nominee (and ISA) method means that all shareholder communications are filtered through the brokers. That produces much less paper - often virtually none - and the brokers have a strong incentive to cut out irrelevant detail, namely that they don't want to have to deal with large numbers of "what on earth does this mean?" questions from their clients! So they tend to summarise as much as possible - and that typically means a lot. E.g. a rights issue for which the company's shareholder circular might be 50-100 pages long becomes a single-page broker corporate action saying essentially something like "ABC is doing an N-for-M rights issue at a subscription price of XXXp per right. Based on your holding of XXXX shares, you have YYYY rights. You have the following options of what to do with them: 1) Take up all of your rights; 2) Take up some of your rights; 3) Sell all of your rights; 4) Sell enough of your rights to raise the money needed to take up the rest. If you don't respond, the rights will lapse and the company may make a lapsed-rights payment to you." Along with a few more essential details such as response deadlines, when cash must be available in your account, etc.

Which generally works fine - but does have the disadvantage that brokers have a tendency to oversimplify, which tends particularly to affect their summaries of the more complex corporate actions, and occasionally they completely garble what's on offer, making it incomprehensible. Or rather worse, perfectly comprehensible but just plain wrong - for instance, there used to be "B/C share schemes", which returned cash to shareholders in a way that allowed them a choice of tax treatment, either as income (subject to Income Tax) or as capital (subject to CGT). To make the choice, shareholders elected to receive either B or C shares at an intermediate stage in the action, and I've once encountered a case of a broker sending a corporate action notice for one such scheme that described everything perfectly correctly, except that it had which of B and C shares was for the income treatment and which for the capital treatment precisely the wrong way around!

(*) That's in the absence of information the company has received by other means - for example, many companies allow people to register to receive non-individualised shareholder communications by email, almost certainly on the basis that email is so cheap that it costs less to send them to anyone who asks for them than to try to restrict them to the shareholders who are actually entitled to them.

Gengulphus

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126621

Postby JohnB » March 21st, 2018, 7:04 am

Thanks for the very detailed reply. I'd still be concerned about the frequency of emails, even if there were no physical paperwork. I particularly dislike the content free emails companies send out "important communication on our website, please login to find out more".

I find my 8 tracker holdings to be pretty quiet. If you want volume of emails, try p2p, its an endless stream of messages of loans in the pipeline, partial redemptions and weasel words as recoveries occur!

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126642

Postby tjh290633 » March 21st, 2018, 9:01 am

JohnB wrote:@TJH are you quoting the total return in each case? The FTSE index may have only risen 2%, but 16*3.5% dividends being reinvested makes a huge difference

In that case, just the share price. The total return is somewhat higher, but I would need the TR version of the index for that comparison.

TJH

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

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Postby JohnB » March 21st, 2018, 9:29 am

Where "somewhat" is 1.035^16=73% then

I think anyone comparing investment should be very careful that they do not refer to an income rather than accumulation product and then disregard the income...

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Re: Maybe a HYP isn't for me?

#126672

Postby tjh290633 » March 21st, 2018, 10:58 am

JohnB wrote:Where "somewhat" is 1.035^16=73% then

I think anyone comparing investment should be very careful that they do not refer to an income rather than accumulation product and then disregard the income...


WTAN is not an accumulation unit. The share price on 21 Dec 2001 was 380p, and on Monday night 19 Mar 2018, it was 1030p. On those dates the FTSE100 was 5217.4 and 7042.93 respectively. Those are the figures that give the IRRs of 6.33% and 1.86%.

The total return for the holding is 11.08% over that period (for a single share bought at 380p it would have been 8.34%). The current figure for the FTSE100TR Index is 6045.10. On 21 Dec 2001 it was (I think) 2448.32, which makes the IRR for the FTSE100TR 5.72%. If my start date value is incorrect, then please tell me.

TJH


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