Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

General discussions about equity high-yield income strategies
schober
Lemon Pip
Posts: 71
Joined: November 30th, 2017, 11:14 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160302

Postby schober » August 17th, 2018, 1:22 pm

Kurt Wulff covers 5 high income stocks in the oil/gas space
http://www.mcdep.com/index.htm

wanderer101
Posts: 41
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 6:47 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160604

Postby wanderer101 » August 19th, 2018, 4:15 pm

What a fascinating thread, thanks to all contributors.

For those interested in individual companies, there was passing reference recently to this question in a thread on HYP Practical here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12785

Where poster Horsey suggested:
If you don't mind dipping your investment toes into foreign stocks, there are quite a number of interesting Eurozone candidates many of which are household names....
e.g. BMW, Daimler, Unibail-Rodamco, Allianz, BASF, Aegon, ING Group


It was off-topic there (LSE-quoted only) but it's an interesting list, and as Flyer61 says, Daimler looks like a classic temporarily-out-of-favour-long-established-megacap HY buying opportunity - at 55.16 EUR (12-month-low is 54.27) p/e is 6.27 and yield 6.62% according to FT.
BMW is 81.41 EUR (12m low 76.50 ), p/e 6.2, yield 4.91%.

Same figures for the others on Horsey's list (same source) (sorry can't do tables):
Unibail 186.45, 177.35, 7.88, 5.79%
BASF 77.57, 76.25, 11.81, 4.00%
Allianz 184.24, 170.12, 11.85, 4.34%
Aegon 5.27, 4.63, 5.98, 5.31%
ING 11.70, 11.50, 9.0, 5.89%

I'd add to this list the German pharma and agrochemicals giant Bayer, which recently bought Monsanto and has been savaged in recent days by the Roundup court ruling in the US. It's gone from around 94 euros to a 5-year low of less than 80. Not necessarily HY (pe is 18.91 and yield 3.48%) but if you think the reaction is overdone - and it seems the scientific consensus is a lot less convinced than the jury - it could be an LTBH buying opportunity. I got in last week at 75.75 EUR.

@Pendrainllwyn:

Hong Kong has some strong companies with good yields but HKD dividends may not be to everyones' liking.


Don't see a problem with HKD myself, it's pegged to the USD and spreads are generally minimal.

Could I ask what companies you are thinking of in particular?

Of course there are various potential risk issues (to put it mildly). But if anyone has the appetite, the Chinese banks are currently in a trough, bombed out by concerns over the Chinese economy in general:
ABC price 3.63 52-week low 3.49, p/e 5.39, yield 6.07
BOC 3.54, 3.49, 5.6, 5.98
CCB 6.79, 6.45, 6.05, 5.08
ICBC 5.62, 5.33, 6.15, 5.16

Various Chinese telecoms and property firms also wallowing near multi-year-lows on single-digit P/Es, but often not high yield. Although China Mobile has a p/e of 11.22 and yields 4.65%.

many thanks wand

andyalan10
Lemon Pip
Posts: 92
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:49 am
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160656

Postby andyalan10 » August 19th, 2018, 9:53 pm

Funnily enough I bought Daimler a week ago in part due to the coverage on the HYP practical board.

They've gone down since. A couple of comments - it seems hard to get a consistent live or near live price. The FT price in their portfolio tool seems to only update once a day, and doesn't match the price on investing.com. I'm not totally convinced I'm looking at the shares that I have bought in my Youinvest SIPP, it only offered one choice under Daimler, and talks on the website about a Sterling quoted equivalent. Also it seems the German withholding tax on dividends is something over 26%, so my thinking at the moment is that I might aim to sell on a reasonable capital gain between now and the next ex-dividend date in April 2019.

wanderer101
Posts: 41
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 6:47 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160728

Postby wanderer101 » August 20th, 2018, 11:46 am

Hi Andy

According to this https://www.pkf.com/publications/tax-gu ... tax-guide/ Germany has a tax treaty with the UK that reduces the withholding tax to 15% (so 15.825% with solidarity surcharge). Note it's from 2016-17, they don't seem to have a more recent version.

Re the FT site, yes I've found that if you search in the 'add transaction' screen you get multiple different quote options, including all the local German exchanges. But if you go to the 'search securities' box at the top of the screen and hit return (i.e. not just click on the auto-suggested options) the first result will be the Xetra quote, which I expect is the one your broker is trading on (Halifax does). For Daimler the Xetra symbol is DAIX.N:GER

HTH wand

PinkDalek
Lemon Half
Posts: 6139
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 1589 times
Been thanked: 1801 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160750

Postby PinkDalek » August 20th, 2018, 1:33 pm

wanderer101 wrote:...

According to this https://www.pkf.com/publications/tax-gu ... tax-guide/ Germany has a tax treaty with the UK that reduces the withholding tax to 15% (so 15.825% with solidarity surcharge). Note it's from 2016-17, they don't seem to have a more recent version. ...


Yes, as you say, that 15% is the treaty rate but if anyone knows how it works in detail, kindly add to this topic re TUI:

viewtopic.php?t=2731#p35286

Which suggests an application is needed to the German Tax Authority before the 26%+ rate is reduced (ignoring pension schemes for the moment).

TwmSionCati
Lemon Pip
Posts: 54
Joined: November 9th, 2016, 12:11 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160838

Postby TwmSionCati » August 20th, 2018, 7:37 pm

PinkDalek,

... an application is needed to the German Tax Authority before the 26%+ rate is reduced...


Yes, that was my experience when I was holding Daimler recently; use form 010184 - KapESt-Erstattung UK/NIRLand. They react quickly and entirely without fuss — nothing like the agony of getting France or (God forbid!) Italy to partially refund tax withheld.

By the way, you said the other day [12-Aug-18, #158968]

... The remaining 15% is then claimed on my Income Tax Return. ...


Would you be so kind as to explain how this works in detail? I’m a basic-rate taxpayer and file my returns online, but I’ve never noticed a space for claiming from our tax people the portion that can’t be claimed from the foreign tax people.

Thanks in advance.


TSC

Gengulphus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4255
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 am
Been thanked: 2628 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160858

Postby Gengulphus » August 20th, 2018, 8:30 pm

TwmSionCati wrote:
... The remaining 15% is then claimed on my Income Tax Return. ...

Would you be so kind as to explain how this works in detail? I’m a basic-rate taxpayer and file my returns online, but I’ve never noticed a space for claiming from our tax people the portion that can’t be claimed from the foreign tax people.

It's called "Foreign Tax Credit Relief". It can be used to claim a reduction in the equivalent UK tax, up to the lesser of the foreign tax paid and the amount of the UK tax due on that particular item of income; if the UK tax due is the lesser, then the rest of the foreign tax paid cannot be claimed. So for withholding tax on a dividend, which is basically Income Tax deducted at source for UK tax purposes, as a basic-rate taxpayer you can't claim any of the withholding tax for dividends paid within an ISA, SIPP or other tax shelter or within your personal allowance and/or dividend allowance (*), and you're restricted to a claim of 7.5% rather than the full 15% for dividends paid outside the dividend allowance in your basic-rate band.

In the paper tax return, it's dealt with in the Foreign supplementary pages and described in their notes. I can't reasonably describe how to get to it in the online tax return without logging on and messing around with my own tax return to see exactly what the questions and responses are, which I'm afraid I'm not willing to do for the sake of a post! But usually the online return reflects the paper return well enough that the paper return gives a good indication where to look - and incidentally, I find the paper return's notes are still more informative and comprehensive than the online return's help system, despite having been made significantly shorter, less informative and less comprehensive some years ago.

(*) I'm reasonably certain you are allowed to choose to use your allowances in the most tax-efficient way, so if e.g. you have £2k of UK dividend income and £2k of foreign dividends which have had 15% withholding tax taken, all of which fall in your basic-rate band, you can decide that your dividend allowance will cover the UK dividends, leaving the foreign dividends to be dealt with by Foreign Tax Credit Relief and so no UK tax payable on any of the dividends.

Gengulphus

PinkDalek
Lemon Half
Posts: 6139
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:12 pm
Has thanked: 1589 times
Been thanked: 1801 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#160859

Postby PinkDalek » August 20th, 2018, 8:31 pm

Thanks for your reply re the Daimler procedure etc.

TwmSionCati wrote:By the way, you said the other day [12-Aug-18, #158968]

... The remaining 15% is then claimed on my Income Tax Return. ...

Would you be so kind as to explain how this works in detail? I’m a basic-rate taxpayer and file my returns online, but I’ve never noticed a space for claiming from our tax people the portion that can’t be claimed from the foreign tax people.


I understand the system but I'm not great at explaining. What I wrote was here viewtopic.php?p=158968#p158968 including "cannot be reclaimed" and should have added from HMRC but the WHT can be used to offset your UK Income Tax liability on that foreign dividend income.:

If I may and briefly, only in so far as the qualifying (including restricting it to the treaty rate, usually 15%) withholding tax doesn't exceed the UK Income Tax liability on each individual holding. From what you are saying, you are probably taxed at the basic rate on dividends of 7.5%, such that the excess WHT is lost and cannot be reclaimed (not talking about SIPPs/Pensions etc here).. The later part when I said The remaining 15% is then claimed on my Income Tax Return relates to higher rate taxpayers.

I don't file online but https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... turn-sa100 and
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... eign-sa106 both provide some hints.

The first talks in Boxes 6 and 7 about Foreign dividends (up to £300) and associated withholding tax.

The second about Foreign Tax Credit Relief - If foreign tax was taken off your foreign income you may be able to claim Foreign Tax Credit Relief ....

There's much more in the Foreign Notes for the latter https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... s-2018.pdf

Where do put your foreign dividends on the online return and is there not something there that suggests you can claim foreign WHT (in part at least) against your UK Income tax liability on the income?

None of the above covers the intricacies of the Dividend allowance and how best it is offset.

This being High Yield Shares & Strategies - general, I'm wondering if the detailed discussion should continue at Taxes - Practical Issues.

TwmSionCati
Lemon Pip
Posts: 54
Joined: November 9th, 2016, 12:11 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161030

Postby TwmSionCati » August 21st, 2018, 1:49 pm

PinkDalek wrote: ... I'm wondering if the detailed discussion should continue at Taxes - Practical Issues.


Probably it should, if there's actually any more detail to provide after your and Gengulphus' helpful replies: which I doubt. Thank you both, and I'll give it a whirl next time.

TSC

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161135

Postby Walrus » August 21st, 2018, 11:29 pm

Moderator Message:
referenced quote deleted at request of poster.

also picked up some Kraft, some Pepsi and some Disney.

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161300

Postby Walrus » August 22nd, 2018, 6:42 pm

Moderator Message:
referenced quote deleted at posters request.


I really quite like the Pepsi share. It has all the attributes I like for buy and hold, I know Disney yield is not good, but I view it as a safe place to stick funds. I believe Disney will exist in 50 years so I'm happy to hold it. Kraft I think had a decent yield, decent set of brands again and provides some good diversification to the UK high yield shares I have. I also like the fact they provide more non GBP exposure to my portfolio.

ADrunkenMarcus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1586
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 11:16 am
Has thanked: 673 times
Been thanked: 479 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161340

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » August 22nd, 2018, 8:42 pm

Walrus wrote:I really quite like the Pepsi share. It has all the attributes I like for buy and hold,


Nick Train likes Pepsi, too, and it's a top holding in Evenlode Global Income. A good diversifier, as it has a snacks business and not solely drinks like Coca Cola. Pepsi is not the majority of its business.

Best wishes

Mark.

Wizard
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2829
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:22 am
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 1029 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161554

Postby Wizard » August 23rd, 2018, 6:08 pm

I have had AT&T on a watch list of US shares for a while. It currently yields over 6% and in my SIPP would be free of US tax. For those who only fish in the bigger shares its market cap at over $200b means that it is a monster (more than 3 times the size of BT and Vodafone combined). I wondered if anyone else had any views on it as an option.

Terry.

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161581

Postby Walrus » August 23rd, 2018, 7:49 pm

Wizard wrote:I have had AT&T on a watch list of US shares for a while. It currently yields over 6% and in my SIPP would be free of US tax. For those who only fish in the bigger shares its market cap at over $200b means that it is a monster (more than 3 times the size of BT and Vodafone combined). I wondered if anyone else had any views on it as an option.

Terry.


For me it's the broader question about telecommunications and whether it's a good industry to invest in. It's exactly where I'm at with Vodafone. looks cheap, massive barriers to entry (cost), most likely to be required for the foreseeable future. I feel like telcomms should be a decent bet but the markets don't like them. I 've topped up Vod up to its max now in the HYP 4 percent, but I'm considering a further conviction play in the value portfolio.

I'll be honest

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18694
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6568 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#161585

Postby Lootman » August 23rd, 2018, 7:56 pm

Walrus wrote:
Wizard wrote:I have had AT&T on a watch list of US shares for a while. It currently yields over 6% and in my SIPP would be free of US tax. For those who only fish in the bigger shares its market cap at over $200b means that it is a monster (more than 3 times the size of BT and Vodafone combined). I wondered if anyone else had any views on it as an option.

For me it's the broader question about telecommunications and whether it's a good industry to invest in. It's exactly where I'm at with Vodafone. looks cheap, massive barriers to entry (cost), most likely to be required for the foreseeable future. I feel like telcomms should be a decent bet but the markets don't like them. I 've topped up Vod up to its max now in the HYP 4 percent, but I'm considering a further conviction play in the value portfolio.

Vodafone is at least sticking to its knitting. AT&T and Verizon have both made takeovers for media-like companies in an attempt to play catch-up with Netflix, Disney and Amazon, and that's a high-risk, high-stakes game. They may look like bond surrogates but AT&T was at $42 a year ago, and $32 now. Verizon seems to oscillate around $50 without doing anything.

Pendrainllwyn
Lemon Slice
Posts: 304
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:53 pm
Has thanked: 162 times
Been thanked: 200 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#163661

Postby Pendrainllwyn » September 2nd, 2018, 5:28 am

xxxx strategy resonates with me. I also enjoy the investment process; reading up on companies, crunching numbers etc. I am not always investing in shares I would hold indefinitely but for a growing proportion of my holdings that's the case.

Pendrainllwyn

flyer61
Lemon Slice
Posts: 575
Joined: November 11th, 2016, 12:53 pm
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#163751

Postby flyer61 » September 2nd, 2018, 4:30 pm

Here are two more for those who want income and diversification. Always check the tax treatment first before purchase. Both are as ADR's traded in the USA. Could work well in a UK SIPP.

SPKKY Spark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_New_Zealand

WBK Westpac https://www.westpac.com.au/about-westpa ... or-centre/

ADrunkenMarcus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1586
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 11:16 am
Has thanked: 673 times
Been thanked: 479 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#163752

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » September 2nd, 2018, 4:35 pm

Pendrainllwyn wrote:xxxxx strategy resonates with me. I also enjoy the investment process; reading up on companies, crunching numbers etc. I am not always investing in shares I would hold indefinitely but for a growing proportion of my holdings that's the case.


Ditto.

And I will top up existing holdings, where prices are favourable, as part of that process. Kone is a prime candidate for me.

Best wishes

Mark.

flyer61
Lemon Slice
Posts: 575
Joined: November 11th, 2016, 12:53 pm
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 208 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#163762

Postby flyer61 » September 2nd, 2018, 5:57 pm

Mark,

there in lies the problem...

prices are high! As an alternative to KONE a more diversified Company would be United technologies (UTX). Instead of buying more KONE I bought UTX. On price both are probably not to expensive. UTX have OTIS lifts and a whole lot of other stuff. I get a buzz everytime I am wizzed about by either of these twos products :lol: and I don't expect Amazon to be under cutting their stuff anytime soon.

ITW is another on the radar. Yield for these and UTX is not great....

Walrus
Lemon Slice
Posts: 255
Joined: March 21st, 2018, 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: International Shares as part of High Yield Portfolio

#163766

Postby Walrus » September 2nd, 2018, 6:09 pm

Walrus wrote:Thanks everyone.

Initially I was specifically thinking about blue chip global companies in the developed world paying a decent dividend and offer some growth. Companies that immediately appeal to me are Kraft, Pepsi and Nestle, I'll be honest I don't like the drag on income from an investment trust.

In specific scenarios like emerging markets and smaller cap I can see that I am getting added value. On the income side from blue chips I am less convinced of the benefits. That being said the yield on Murray international looks very interesting and trading at a slight discount.

@SalvadorHardin I know it's not am income share but what attracted you to Juventus, I can see that would complement my MSG holding and generally I'm quite bullish on the sports sector.


Looks like I missed the boat there. Was just looking with the plan of having a dabble with the Juve share. It was 0.86 EUR when I first checked a couple of weeks ago.
1Eur 23 now!!!! Would have been a nice trade that!


Return to “High Yield Shares & Strategies - General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests