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Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

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PinkDalek
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Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117180

Postby PinkDalek » February 10th, 2018, 5:42 pm

Hello Fools,

Q1 Anyone know the Rugby ground used for the adverts, by a certain fast food, provider on ITV?

Q2 Should that Wales try have been disallowed (this is not a spoiler as it could be read both ways)?

Edit: The highlights and commentary now being being shown suggest an incorrect TMO decision was made.

PD

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117524

Postby didds » February 12th, 2018, 9:52 am

There seems to be plenty of "evidence" on both sides of the equation as to the TMO decsuion. Including more evidence that there was a Welsh knock on before the ball went into ingoal.

I checked the WRU website yesterday. It still says England 12-Wales 6.

My bigger question is why didn't England work a DG in the last ten minutes or so when they had possession and territory, to extend the lead and get the scoreboard ticking? Farrell not in the tactical captaincy groove?

didds

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117529

Postby PinkDalek » February 12th, 2018, 10:04 am

didds wrote:There seems to be plenty of "evidence" on both sides of the equation as to the TMO decsuion. Including more evidence that there was a Welsh knock on before the ball went into ingoal.


I'd appreciate seeing such evidence. I was writing at half-time and there were, at that stage, insufficient angles etc. All I've seen since is the ball coming forward off the Welsh left knee then the non-try being scored, before the England player touched the ball. What is clear is the TMO made the decision very swiftly. Wrongly in my opinion and this was supported by the pundits after the match.

I checked the WRU website yesterday. It still says England 12-Wales 6.


Yes, I expected to be told to look at the scorebook. Even if Wales had scored at the time, I still think England would have gone on to win.

My bigger question is why didn't England work a DG in the last ten minutes or so when they had possession and territory, to extend the lead and get the scoreboard ticking? Farrell not in the tactical captaincy groove?


I was hiding behind the sofa during the last ten. The match reminded me of some of the low scoring E v W matches, in the seventies I think it was.

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117602

Postby didds » February 12th, 2018, 1:47 pm

Here's a "no it wasn't" link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43026443

here's a "yes it was" link.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... d-12004355

A bit of googling will find others.

And here's the view from two opposite ends of the spectrum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... s-england/
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... ions-rugby

didds

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117605

Postby youfoolishboy » February 12th, 2018, 2:03 pm

I think the right decision was made even before proof of the knock on has come up.
The TMO said it was inconclusive which is right it is not definite that he applied downward pressure, he definitely touched it but downward or at an angle?. The man who grounded it was therefore the English defender.
The reason the TMO was not sure was he gets the same feeds that the TV get and does not have anything but a headphone to the TV broadcaster and a screen he cannot stop the picture only ask for a different angle or possibly slowmo, I am not even sure about the latter being available. I remember on Aussy TMO at a famous England game that all he got was a continuous stream of the different angles so he had to wait till they came back round so he could make a decision which obviously took a while so it made it look a border line decision when it was in fact very simple, I think that was in a World Cup where the winger's foot clipped the line, not in the UK. Each country is different in the help they give the TMO but generally its not what you would expect of a professional sport.

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117616

Postby didds » February 12th, 2018, 2:31 pm

youfoolishboy wrote: Each country is different in the help they give the TMO but generally its not what you would expect of a professional sport.


... or indeed a professional media company...

didds

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117627

Postby simoan » February 12th, 2018, 3:06 pm

yfb,

Do you still referee? Hope it wasn't you wearing yellow at Bedford on Friday night? :-)

ATB, Si

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117678

Postby youfoolishboy » February 12th, 2018, 5:20 pm

Oh yes still refreee although the current youth before ability mantra in refreeing has caused me to be demoted twice. Last year's excuse was I was not assessed. I pointed out I was living in Italy and was on a pitch most week's waiting for an assessor but no one turned up. I had advised them I was going there and they signed forms to allow me to refreee overseas. Still smarting over that as you can see. Suffice to say I am not dedicating so much time to it now only 1 game a week or less and all local so was not in Bradford :0) Doing some Argentine club team U21s v a local club U21s tomorrow night which will be very interesting and fast.

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117764

Postby PinkDalek » February 13th, 2018, 12:03 am

youfoolishboy wrote:I think the right decision was made even before proof of the knock on has come up. ...


Interesting.

I’ve read about such proof but still haven’t seen it. That’s why I asked Didds for his “evidence”. Having looked, to me the Evans finger touched his own right thigh, rather than the ball. I too can use Google but have little time at the moment.

Understood re the TMO etc but I felt Anscombe was in control of the ball - albeit momentarily. If the angle you mention was enough not to have been classed as a knock-on, then why is it relevant (knowing you are a ref, with whom I never disagreed during my very amateur rugby days, except later on over a pint)?

Forecast: Argentina U21s to win with ease.

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117777

Postby youfoolishboy » February 13th, 2018, 7:22 am

It is not clear there was downward pressure, I am not saying there was or wasn’t it is just from the footage available a case can be made both ways hence inconclusive so no try. Subsequent frame by frame analysis I believe, not seen by me yet, shows that the downward pressure was applied however the same analysis apparently proves it was a knock on by the Welshman who put it in goal before that. My statement that the correct decision was made was based on what I knew the TMO had to work with and from that I still say he made the correct decision as it is impossible to definitely say either way. In the end he got the right answer, no try back for the penalty, so I guess the system works lol.
There are two criteria for grounding the ball in goal
1. When carried over man and ball must be in contact with the ground, no pressure no control so long as he is in possession fine line between control and possession mind you.
2. If the ball is loose in goal, after a kick say, downward pressure must be applied possession (control) is not. An oddity here to help you understand is that a try can be scored by a man in touch or touch in goal, ie not on the playing area, by putting his hand downwards on a ball loose in goal. If he had been in possession he would not score it.
Not sure about tonight touring teams can be remarkably erratic in standard. This lot have 2 teams worth so one squard is going to be strong I guess, not sure if they are playing the first or second game though, I am doing the 1st game hope its my one.

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117790

Postby didds » February 13th, 2018, 8:28 am

another 2p...

1) not sure TMOs can use slow-mos any longer? Or that naybe only for foul play episodes? There has been some recent cuffufle over slow-mo'd foul play incidents looking far worse in slow-mo than in real time.

2) our colts played a touring Argentinian team a few years back - from Argentinas oldest rugby club IIRC. The tourists won by 2 points in a quite fantastic game, played under lights on a Friday night (our club has championship standard/quality lights on the training/2nd pitch, but unfortunately rarely use them to play evening matches. Though to be fair the only fixtures that would likely work would be very close geographically opposition and tourists.

didds

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117847

Postby simoan » February 13th, 2018, 11:52 am

youfoolishboy wrote:Oh yes still refreee although the current youth before ability mantra in refreeing has caused me to be demoted twice. Last year's excuse was I was not assessed. I pointed out I was living in Italy and was on a pitch most week's waiting for an assessor but no one turned up. I had advised them I was going there and they signed forms to allow me to refreee overseas. Still smarting over that as you can see. Suffice to say I am not dedicating so much time to it now only 1 game a week or less and all local so was not in Bradford :0) Doing some Argentine club team U21s v a local club U21s tomorrow night which will be very interesting and fast.

I was at the Bedford v Jersey Championship game on Friday night. I was nowhere near Bradford either :-)

Anyway, nice to know it wasn't you getting all the abuse. Ref had a shocker... missed the Jersey winger dropping the ball and knocking on for the winning try. Didn't penalise all manner of handling in rucks to slow the ball down with a yellow card. Jersey won because the ref was weak and they played him like a fiddle. Great game to watch though with 9 tries, some of them really good. Much better than the rubbish Eng v Wales match IMHO with all it's bad kicking, poor handling and turnovers.

All the best, Si

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#117968

Postby youfoolishboy » February 13th, 2018, 7:57 pm

Never trust an Argie, swines only had one team and my game as first up was cancelled thats 3 in 6 days I have had cancelled on me!
I dont defend refs the same these days the standards are shocking, age is the only factor in promotion. If you have a load of kids then you might look at ability but its not that important. You got lucky having one that was not fixated with using yellow cards that is the norm when they have no idea how to control a game I had one use 7 yellows in a game I AR'd, NZ v Australia expats in London, I normally do that game and have given out 2 in total over 3 or so years, both to the same guy the Australian captain. I must find another way of keeping fit :0)

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#119068

Postby dionaeamuscipula » February 19th, 2018, 3:33 pm

So what about the ?first English try, where the player had the ball tucked under his arm and as a result didn't ground it at all (at least on camera)?



DM

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Re: Six Nations - half-time quiz - E V W

#119073

Postby PinkDalek » February 19th, 2018, 3:53 pm

dionaeamuscipula wrote:So what about the ?first English try, where the player had the ball tucked under his arm and as a result didn't ground it at all (at least on camera)?


Agreed, I wasn't convinced by that one, but, as you suggest, other angles may have helped viewers to see it more clearly. The one I've seen the ball is slightly obscured by his torso and the slow-mo version stops too early.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... yfXDvqso-c


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