The Lemon Fool

A few different threads on individual subjects, but after watching Aston Villa *************** it's looking like a fun season.

* I'd forgotten Villa won the European Cup in 1982. A good one for a quiz - name the 7 British winners etc.

Anyway, the usual Christmas fixture mayhem followed by the run in are looking like fun.
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*******Villa beating Man City and [expletive deleted] in the same week? Wow.

Tedx wrote:A few different threads on individual subjects, but after watching Aston Villa *************** it's looking like a fun season.

* I'd forgotten Villa won the European Cup in 1982. A good one for a quiz - name the 7 British winners etc.

There used to be a poster on TMF called AV82EC which has allowed me to remember not just the achievement but the year.

DM

Yes, yes - I remember him too!

...I never linked the username to the win though

Tedx wrote:
* I'd forgotten Villa won the European Cup in 1982. A good one for a quiz - name the 7 British winners etc.

I'm only aware of 5, with the most recent first time winners being that one in 1982. Although it is argued that another won it in 1895 in what has been called all of the British Cup, The European Cup and, most often, the World Championship.

dealtn wrote:

Tedx wrote:* I'd forgotten Villa won the European Cup in 1982. A good one for a quiz - name the 7 British winners etc.

I'm only aware of 5, with the most recent first time winners being that one in 1982.

There are certainly 6:

Man U
Man C
Liverpool
Notts Forest
Chelsea
Aston Villa

But the 7th? Maybe Celtic if we include all of the UK?

Or are you not counting the Champions League?

Lootman wrote:

dealtn wrote:I'm only aware of 5, with the most recent first time winners being that one in 1982.

There are certainly 6:

Man U
Man C
Liverpool
Notts Forest
Chelsea
Aston Villa

But the 7th?

No 2 of those won the Champions League not the European Cup. The 7th is "British"

dealtn wrote:

Lootman wrote:There are certainly 6:

Man U
Man C
Liverpool
Notts Forest
Chelsea
Aston Villa

But the 7th?

No 2 of those won the Champions League not the European Cup. The 7th is "British"

OK but when teams talk of their titles then they usually count the Champions League in with the European Cup.

Just like the old First Division is included in with the Premier League.

Lootman wrote:

dealtn wrote:No 2 of those won the Champions League not the European Cup. The 7th is "British"

OK but when teams talk of their titles then they usually count the Champions League in with the European Cup.

Just like the old First Division is included in with the Premier League.

Says someone that doesn't work in the football industry

dealtn wrote:

Lootman wrote:OK but when teams talk of their titles then they usually count the Champions League in with the European Cup.

Just like the old First Division is included in with the Premier League.

Says someone that doesn't work in the football industry

Oh I am sorry, I did not realise that was a requirement for offering an opinion here.

Sometimes you need to be further away from something to see it clearly. In this case the confusion over 5, 6 or 7 domestic winners is caused by people having differing views of what a title or trophy is and means. And about whether we are talking about the UK or just England. It is not compllcated.

7 British winners of the premier European club tournament then.

Lootman wrote:

dealtn wrote:Says someone that doesn't work in the football industry

Oh I am sorry, I did not realise that was a requirement for offering an opinion here.

Sometimes you need to be further away from something to see it clearly. In this case the confusion over 5, 6 or 7 domestic winners is caused by people having differing views of what a title or trophy is and means. And about whether we are talking about the UK or just England. It is not compllcated.

I think you will find I am very happy with people having opinions, even if they are incorrect factually. I wasn't the one saying how "teams" talk about their titles at the same time as not being a part of those teams.

If you know some of the clubs involved in professional football, and those that were concerned with competitions over those periods, you would recognise a distinction between winning a trophy of the previous years league title winners and being unbeaten over the course of that competition, and winning one involving multiple non-winners and where you can lose games on the way.

You will also know how the 1895 "winners", like Scotland in 1967, claim to have been world champions. That's being further away from something.

Tedx wrote:7 British winners of the premier European club tournament then.

Indeed, or "Champions of Europe", if you prefer.

Another trivia question might be about other British teams that got to the final, and lost.

Off the top of my head there is Ars'nal, Spurs and Leeds. Any others?

Lootman wrote:

Tedx wrote:7 British winners of the premier European club tournament then.

Indeed, or "Champions of Europe", if you prefer.

Another trivia question might be about other British teams that got to the final, and lost.

Off the top of my head there is Ars'nal, Spurs and Leeds. Any others?

Liverpool (multiple times), Chelsea, Man United and Man City (or does "other" exclude winners?)

dealtn wrote:

Lootman wrote:Indeed, or "Champions of Europe", if you prefer.

Another trivia question might be about other British teams that got to the final, and lost.

Off the top of my head there is Ars'nal, Spurs and Leeds. Any others?

Liverpool (multiple times), Chelsea, Man United and Man City (or does "other" exclude winners?)

Yes, when I said "other" teams I meant teams that had not also been European champions.

Lootman wrote:

dealtn wrote:Liverpool (multiple times), Chelsea, Man United and Man City (or does "other" exclude winners?)

Yes, when I said "other" teams I meant teams that had not also been European champions.

It also excludes the other British finalist too then!

dealtn wrote:

Lootman wrote:Yes, when I said "other" teams I meant teams that had not also been European champions.

It also excludes the other British finalist too then!

I said "off the top of my head" precisely because there may be others! i did not bother to look it up.

dealtn wrote:If you know some of the clubs involved in professional football, and those that were concerned with competitions over those periods, you would recognise a distinction between winning a trophy of the previous years league title winners and being unbeaten over the course of that competition, and winning one involving multiple non-winners and where you can lose games on the way.

If we are being pedantic (and it seems we are) then you'd expect someone who works in the football industry to know that it was perfectly possible to win the old European Cup without being the previous league title winners, and also losing games on the way. Just one example would be Nottingham Forest in 1980. They qualified as reigning European champions but were runners-up to Liverpool in the league the previous season. On the way to the final, they lost games to both Dynamo Berlin and Ajax, ultimately winning on aggregate in each case.

Sometimes, when it's obvious what someone means, it can be more conducive to friendly discussion if we just let it go, don't you think?

CryptoPlankton wrote:

dealtn wrote:If you know some of the clubs involved in professional football, and those that were concerned with competitions over those periods, you would recognise a distinction between winning a trophy of the previous years league title winners and being unbeaten over the course of that competition, and winning one involving multiple non-winners and where you can lose games on the way.

If we are being pedantic (and it seems we are) then you'd expect someone who works in the football industry to know that it was perfectly possible to win the old European Cup without being the previous league title winners, and also losing games on the way. Just one example would be Nottingham Forest in 1980. They qualified as reigning European champions but were runners-up to Liverpool in the league the previous season. On the way to the final, they lost games to both Dynamo Berlin and Ajax, ultimately winning on aggregate in each case.

Sometimes, when it's obvious what someone means, it can be more conducive to friendly discussion if we just let it go, don't you think?

one example?!

The old "Which team have won the European Cup more times than their national league?" question was a pub quiz staple
- has there been another?

CryptoPlankton wrote:

dealtn wrote:If you know some of the clubs involved in professional football, and those that were concerned with competitions over those periods, you would recognise a distinction between winning a trophy of the previous years league title winners and being unbeaten over the course of that competition, and winning one involving multiple non-winners and where you can lose games on the way.

If we are being pedantic (and it seems we are) then you'd expect someone who works in the football industry to know that it was perfectly possible to win the old European Cup without being the previous league title winners, and also losing games on the way. Just one example would be Nottingham Forest in 1980. They qualified as reigning European champions but were runners-up to Liverpool in the league the previous season. On the way to the final, they lost games to both Dynamo Berlin and Ajax, ultimately winning on aggregate in each case.

Sometimes, when it's obvious what someone means, it can be more conducive to friendly discussion if we just let it go, don't you think?

Quite correct