Egypt. Safe?

[absolutezero]

I've got the opportunity to visit Cairo and Alexandria for a week of work in November.
Fly in to Cairo and out of Alexandria (possibly via Cairo - then possibly transfer via Istanbul via Turkish Airlines).

Has anyone been to Egypt recently? Any thoughts?

The FCO and US State Travel Advice is AGGGHHH!!! YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!!! but it says that about everywhere.
I get the idea the advice is mostly referencing events in The Sinai Peninsula and Western Desert rather than Cairo and Alexandria.

What should I expect? I know the roads are chaos and the public transport is a no no.
Are the cities reasonable or will I DIE!!!!?
How's the airport security? I read it seems to be tighter than it used to be a few years ago.
EgyptAir and Turkish Air? Reasonably safe?

[redsturgeon]

https://usdivetravel.com/T-EgyptTerrorism.html

I'd look at some statistics and make my own mind up on the risks I am prepared to take.

The odds of you becoming a victim of terrorist attack in Egypt on your business trip are probably smaller vs you having a fatal accident in your car on the way to the airport.

If you go though it would be wise to take precautions to avoid making yourself a target.

John

[redsturgeon]

https://usdivetravel.com/T-EgyptTerrorism.html

I'd look at some statistics and make my own mind up on the risks I am prepared to take.

The odds of you becoming a victim of terrorist attack in Egypt on your business trip are probably smaller vs you having a fatal accident in your car on the way to the airport.

If you go though it would be wise to take precautions to avoid making yourself a target.

John

Very true indeed and I am likely to adopt a similar view. Though in a tourist resort, you are unlikely to be a local. (Gunmen on the beach in Tunisia etc....) So, on that basis, while there are many alternatives to choose from, I'd likely choose one of those. A shame for the local businesses etc... But life isn't fair, is it? Edited to add - Turkish Airlines are one of my favourite carriers. I have just booked a couple of flights with them for next year.

Yes...but the OP is going there specifically for work and not as a tourist and it is his question that we are answering.

John

[absolutezero]

Thanks for the replies so far.
I'm of the mind that Cairo and Alexandria are probably fairly safe.
There is apparently a visible security service presence on the streets and in public places etc.

Sharm is a very different kettle of fish as it's on the Sinai Peninsula - a well known terrorist hotspot - and I'd be nowhere near the place. Literally fly in to Cairo, do the job, fly to Alexandria, do the job, fly home.
No messing. Not even sure I'd go and have a look at the pyramids or go out. More likely to stay in the hotel and eat meals there.

Turkish Airlines. I'm thinking the airline is again a very different kettle of fish to the country. I'd not particularly want to go to outside Istanbul Airport.

Any other thoughts?

[absolutezero]

I was recently in Jordan, and more recently still, Israel, and both trips I turned down the opportunity to go on to Egypt: not worth the risk in my opinion.

Having seen Sharm El Sheikh airport while visiting Egypt a few times in the mid 2000s I am surprised more bad stuff hasn't happened. It was the epitome of chaos and pandemonium.

As I say, would be nowhere near Sharm.

Interestingly, I was offered the same work in Jordan and ummed and ahhed about it and eventually decided yes - but it fell through anyway and was replaced by the offer of the same week in Egypt.

What was it that put you off Egypt when compared to Jordan? They seem fairly similar with regard to the alerts that I get through.

[tea42]

Recent attacks on Westerners would have been reported in the press… none have. There are Tourist Police everywhere looking after tourists and on the lookout for backhanders. Grease some palms. Dont take in Tramadol. I would go for it, but like every big Middle Eastern City dont carry obvious snatchable bags and be good humoured with the touts and kids who pester you. Bigger problems in what once were tourist destinations where they are now dirt poor and desperate.

[Slarti]

Check what your travel insurance says.

Also your life insurances.
I had to decline one offer of work as it would have caused me to invalidate one of my life insurance policies, which was a bit of a relief as I didn't want to upset the customer who gave me work in other locations and I did not fancy that one.

Slarti

[absolutezero]

Recent attacks on Westerners would have been reported in the press… none have. There are Tourist Police everywhere looking after tourists and on the lookout for backhanders. Grease some palms. Dont take in Tramadol. I would go for it, but like every big Middle Eastern City dont carry obvious snatchable bags and be good humoured with the touts and kids who pester you. Bigger problems in what once were tourist destinations where they are now dirt poor and desperate.

They make us do a huge risk assessment, which I have done.
We do have an app which gives us updates on incidents (terror, weather, strikes, politics etc) in places we go and there have been a few in the last couple of months for Egypt. Nothing that makes the International news though.
I don't think they deliberately target Westerners but they have a bit of a thing for Coptic Christians (which I'm not) and there is a risk of being, the delightful phrase, 'collateral damage'.
There was a car bomb and a suicide bomber in Cairo (only the assailant died), the airport fuel depot blew up (hot weather and not a bomb) and a few other bits down in the south of Egypt involving Coptic Christians (nowhere near Cairo or Alexandria).
I think it's a case of the main cities are ok but you'd be daft if you went elsewhere.

With regard to insurance: I don't have any life insurance as I don't need it and the Company has it's own insurance that covers everything (and I do mean everything - dread to think what it costs but it's not my concern).
The Company sends people to some dodgy places like Nigeria and Pakistan (which I always decline but some people take it).
My riskiest to date is Zimbabwe, which is nothing like the BBC would have you believe.

Egypt is my limit - just trying to work out which side of the line it's on. I think JUST about on the ok side.

[TaurusTheBull]

If it's terrorists' intentions to sew paranoia and fear, they certainly seem to have succeeded on this board!

Cairo and Alexandria are not Sinai. Turkey is safe, except from despotism.

Did anyone around at the time leave Britain when the IRA had their UK bombing campaign? Have you stopped going to America post-911? France, Spain, Germany etc?

Not all countrues where muslims live are dangerous. Terrorism basically occurs everywhere, don't be blinded by Trumpist prejudice, look at the statistics. Planes go down too....

[absolutezero]

Not all countries where muslims live are dangerous. .

Fully agree. I've been to the UAE several times and don't even think twice about it. Off to Oman soon as well.
So it's not 'muslims'. It's that some places have an inherently more unstable fel to them than others.

As an aside, I get more security alerts for France than I do for anywhere else.

[MaraMan]

I visited Alexandria and Cairo last year and I would not go back, at least until things change. I have visited Egypt twice before (not Red Sea resorts) and loved it. This time though I was genuinely uncomfortable, lots of men, some in masks/balaclavas, wielding automatic rifles in the tourist areas. I saw a local being beaten up by armed plain clothes security police, dont know why. Army/Militia everywhere, all heavily armed, road blocks, very uneasy for people not used to it. Alexandria itself doesnt offer much, busy market and some interesting historical sights, but not much more and Cairo is so shabby and dirty with piles of rubbish and waste in nearly every street it seems to my eyes tragic. I have loved Egypt, its beauty, history and mainly friendly people, but alas would not return until there has been a serious improvement in safety.

Just my tuppence worth.

MM

PS: I have travelled quite widely in the Middle East but never felt as at risk and scared anywhere else.

[woolly]

We lived in Egypt for over 15 years, pre-2011 "revolution". I actually feel more nervous walking in London at night, with hordes of people wandering around out of their minds on alcohol and other substances, than I ever did than in Cairo. Things may have changed for the worse, and certainly women are needlessly subjected to endless verbal heckling from sex-starved youths and need to take care, but the real risks you run are from crossing the road, driving on highways and a generalised lack of hygiene.
Enjoy it - November is a good time to visit, as the weather will be lovely as the summer heat has faded by then.

[absolutezero]

So it would seem there is quite a mixed bag of feelings about Egypt.
Most people I have spoken to tell me it's filthy, food hygiene is (at best) ropey and traffic is a huge issue.

People seem more split on the security side of it.
Must admit the attempted blowing up of the American Embassy in Cairo last week (what do you mean you didn't hear about that on the BBC News?) did make me think aaagh - but the men with guns soon sorted him out. He ended up just setting himself on fire. Hopefully one less ne'er-do-well to worry about!

[MaraMan]

Also wanted to mention that I think Turkish Air are excellent, modern fleet, good service and value. Egypt Air, none of these, avoid.

[absolutezero]

Also wanted to mention that I think Turkish Air are excellent, modern fleet, good service and value. Egypt Air, none of these, avoid.

My first thought about Turkish was 'Uhh. Turkey. Bit dodgy.'
From a bit of digging about it seems there is a huge difference in Turkish Airlines and Turkey!

[DiamondEcho]

Also wanted to mention that I think Turkish Air are excellent, modern fleet, good service and value. Egypt Air, none of these, avoid.

My first thought about Turkish was 'Uhh. Turkey. Bit dodgy.'
From a bit of digging about it seems there is a huge difference in Turkish Airlines and Turkey!

Turkish Airlines are considered a good airline, but you do notice a big difference in quality between domestic flights and high profile international routes like the UAE to Singapore where they're up against the likes of Singapore Air.

I haven't been to Egypt for years, but the security for passengers seemed thorough; that plane that got bombed out of the Sinai some years ago was an inside job. The likes of Sharm are chaotic though. But then so is Istanbul!

[DiamondEcho]

p.s. If you do go to Egypt, I'd use Wikitravel to get an update on the travel situations and taxis. In some countries [like Indonesia] there are usually one of two of the many taxi companies that are regarded as reliable for tourists, so it pays to know how to ID a safer company's vehicles at destination.
Re: Egypt, I'd also check into whether your hotels* can provide airport transfers. They tend to come at a premium to a local taxi but you're dealing with a known/named quantity, who has more of a professional reputation to maintain.
The last thing you want is to arrive at an airport, catch a local taxi, the driver refuses to switch on the meter, and have no idea what an honest price should be.
I've long regarded getting from an airport to the hotel on day-1 is when as a visitor you are most vulnerable, since you're likely quite tired, disoriented, and often don't speak the language, plus as a visitor you're likely carrying money/IT gear, and so on. Oh, and IME when I've arrived in Egypt and exited an airport to catch a local taxi, I've had to go from driver to driver to get quotes from them, since many will assume you've no idea and charge what ever they think they can gouge from you. That takes time and is stressful, as they know 'they've got you'.

* Or your employer if on business.

[absolutezero]

Also wanted to mention that I think Turkish Air are excellent, modern fleet, good service and value. Egypt Air, none of these, avoid.

My first thought about Turkish was 'Uhh. Turkey. Bit dodgy.'
From a bit of digging about it seems there is a huge difference in Turkish Airlines and Turkey!

Turkish Airlines are considered a good airline, but you do notice a big difference in quality between domestic flights and high profile international routes like the UAE to Singapore where they're up against the likes of Singapore Air.

I haven't been to Egypt for years, but the security for passengers seemed thorough; that plane that got bombed out of the Sinai some years ago was an inside job. The likes of Sharm are chaotic though. But then so is Istanbul!

This is reassuring. My main fear is aviation related terrorism. Which is stupid as flying is safer than driving to the airport - per passenger mile.
Of all the things to happen, something involving the plane is probably the least likely. But monkey brain and all that.

I do vaguely remember something about Egyptian airport security being lax but spot checks by the international aviation body resulted in British and American inspectors issuing "do this or your airports get shut" directives.

[absolutezero]

p.s. If you do go to Egypt, I'd use Wikitravel to get an update on the travel situations and taxis. In some countries [like Indonesia] there are usually one of two of the many taxi companies that are regarded as reliable for tourists, so it pays to know how to ID a safer company's vehicles at destination.
Re: Egypt, I'd also check into whether your hotels* can provide airport transfers. They tend to come at a premium to a local taxi but you're dealing with a known/named quantity, who has more of a professional reputation to maintain.
The last thing you want is to arrive at an airport, catch a local taxi, the driver refuses to switch on the meter, and have no idea what an honest price should be.
I've long regarded getting from an airport to the hotel on day-1 is when as a visitor you are most vulnerable, since you're likely quite tired, disoriented, and often don't speak the language, plus as a visitor you're likely carrying money/IT gear, and so on. Oh, and IME when I've arrived in Egypt and exited an airport to catch a local taxi, I've had to go from driver to driver to get quotes from them, since many will assume you've no idea and charge what ever they think they can gouge from you. That takes time and is stressful, as they know 'they've got you'.

* Or your employer if on business.

Arrived in Athens last night and they have a fixed 38 euro fee to the city centre hotels.
Taxi driver insisted it was 48 so we got diddled out of 10 euros.
I know he was at it but I couldn't be bothered arguing as the EU have done Greece over and the guy is just trying to make a living in what is obviously a poor place.
What's 10 euros?

[DiamondEcho]

What's 10 euros?

IMHO that not the point. What if you arrived at a remote airport on a delayed flight and the gouged fare was 100 Euro higher, or more? This is why, esp in 2nd or 3rd world countries, I use pre-booked hotel transfers when possible, booked by the hotel, as the driver is answerable to the hotel.