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Boeing 737 Max

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Lootman
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Re: Boeing 737 Max

#232801

Postby Lootman » June 29th, 2019, 9:33 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:Scary stuff....

It certainly is. I've been following the 737 saga with a sense of almost disbelief; it's a tale of simple disregard of common sense and safety. I think those at the top of Boeing should face charges of corporate manslaughter or whatever they call it in the US. It might just focus a few minds and change the culture. It really is a disgrace.

It's certainly a mess, and now the FAA is taking another look at the 787 Dreamliner, with allegations of shoddy work at one of the two plants where they are built (or rather, I should say, assembled).

As a regular flyer I am dismayed, and may well avoid these planes if they come back into service. If enough people feel the same way then this will feed upon itself. That said, we have been here before, notably with the DC-10 which had a series of accidents in the 1970s and 1980's, although eventually redeemed itself via the MD-11 (when a plane gets a bad rep, change its name). Even so SwissAir, of all airlines, managed to lose a MD-11 over Nova Scotia.

The Dreamliner itself was grounded in its infancy, due to spontaneously combusting batteries, and now people love them.

One thing to note, and as a Boeing shareholder I take notice, is that its share price is only off about 10%. Its regular 737 production is still profitable, and some all-737 airlines like Alaska never bought the Max. The 787 is selling like hot cakes. The new 777-X has hundreds of pre-orders. And Boeing still builds the odd 767 and 747 at Paine Field. Not to mention the two new Air Force Ones, and all the military stuff. So Boeing will survive.

And maybe the next major problem will be with an Airbus plane. The Air France A330 crash had a similar issue - misleading pitot tube readings. And as a rule Airbus planes are more software-dependent than Boeing. The A380 has hardly covered itself with glory either, even though none have crashed (a Qantas one came close). It's just that nobody wants them except for Emirates.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Boeing 737 Max

#232815

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » June 29th, 2019, 11:30 pm

Lootman wrote:
ReformedCharacter wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:Scary stuff....

It certainly is. I've been following the 737 saga with a sense of almost disbelief; it's a tale of simple disregard of common sense and safety. I think those at the top of Boeing should face charges of corporate manslaughter or whatever they call it in the US. It might just focus a few minds and change the culture. It really is a disgrace.

It's certainly a mess, and now the FAA is taking another look at the 787 Dreamliner, with allegations of shoddy work at one of the two plants where they are built (or rather, I should say, assembled).

As a regular flyer I am dismayed, and may well avoid these planes if they come back into service. If enough people feel the same way then this will feed upon itself. That said, we have been here before, notably with the DC-10 which had a series of accidents in the 1970s and 1980's, although eventually redeemed itself via the MD-11 (when a plane gets a bad rep, change its name). Even so SwissAir, of all airlines, managed to lose a MD-11 over Nova Scotia.

The Dreamliner itself was grounded in its infancy, due to spontaneously combusting batteries, and now people love them.

One thing to note, and as a Boeing shareholder I take notice, is that its share price is only off about 10%. Its regular 737 production is still profitable, and some all-737 airlines like Alaska never bought the Max. The 787 is selling like hot cakes. The new 777-X has hundreds of pre-orders. And Boeing still builds the odd 767 and 747 at Paine Field. Not to mention the two new Air Force Ones, and all the military stuff. So Boeing will survive.

And maybe the next major problem will be with an Airbus plane. The Air France A330 crash had a similar issue - misleading pitot tube readings. And as a rule Airbus planes are more software-dependent than Boeing. The A380 has hardly covered itself with glory either, even though none have crashed (a Qantas one came close). It's just that nobody wants them except for Emirates.

Boeing's 737 Max crisis could stretch into next year
https://www.channel3000.com/news/nation ... 1090467682
But it is not certain that a software fix will be the final solution ...

By the end of this year, Boeing will likely have about 400 built but undelivered Max jets in its inventory according to Cai von Rumohr, aerospace analyst with Cowen. But it won't be able to deliver those jets until after it fixes the planes already in the hands of airlines ...

"Boeing's first priority will be to prepare the 381 planes in customers' fleets for service," he said in a note this week ...

Boeing doesn't get most of the cash from the sale of the plane until it's handed over to the customer ...

"They're going to have to take on debt, eat into cash reserves," said Corridore. "As long as the plane comes back into service, the company will eventually be fine. And everyone expects that will happen. But whether it returns to normal in 2020 or not until 2021 is tough to say."


AiY

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Re: Boeing 737 Max

#232964

Postby redsturgeon » June 30th, 2019, 6:42 pm

I think the whole sorry tale is a microcosm of the wrongs of current corporate structures that reward cost cutting, short termism and share buybacks over investment and quality and real focus on customers as the executives pocket their ever increasing salaries and bonuses while the workers' wages are kept down with aggressive outsourcing and erosion of benefits.

John

Itsallaguess
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Re: Boeing 737 Max

#232967

Postby Itsallaguess » June 30th, 2019, 7:11 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
I think the whole sorry tale is a microcosm of the wrongs of current corporate structures that reward cost cutting, short termism and share buybacks over investment and quality and real focus on customers as the executives pocket their ever increasing salaries and bonuses while the workers' wages are kept down with aggressive outsourcing and erosion of benefits.


Don't forget about the poor governance.........it always boils down to poor governance......

Cost-cutting and outsourcing can work well if good governance both exists initially and, crucially, is maintained throughout. Where a lot of these large organisations are getting caught out is that the structural governance hasn't actually ever been all that good, but they've got away with it because the people doing the actual work have historically been experienced, conscientious, and motivated, so the real governance was previously being done where the work was being done....

All three of those crucial aspects suffer when costs are cut and work is outsourced, and it's then very often that the inherent 'governance' is shown up to be what it's often always been - bloody awful.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


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