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Are we all going on holiday?

Holiday Ideas & Foreign Travel
terminal7
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Are we all going on holiday?

#310050

Postby terminal7 » May 19th, 2020, 6:41 pm

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps, said the Government was looking at so-called "airbridges" with countries that have low infection rates, which would mean easier entry for certain countries.


Hmm .... how does this work - the UK is a high infection country - silly me, all these low infection countries will just open their doors because Shapps says so. Of course we cannot get to an airport taking public transport - civic duty and all that.

T7

richfool
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310079

Postby richfool » May 19th, 2020, 9:00 pm

And we are still messing around apparently about to introduce (from 1st June) medical checks and quarantining of arrivals at airports (and ports?), when most other countries are starting to relax such checks. We should have been doing those checks since late February.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310080

Postby Lootman » May 19th, 2020, 9:01 pm

I have trips planned for July and September and I am taking them. I have already cancelled two other trips in April and May.

I am done with this police state.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310088

Postby richfool » May 19th, 2020, 9:29 pm

I don't view it as anything like a police state. As someone in the higher risk category, I have to say I am happy to stay at or close to home for the time being; in preference to any possible trips to hospitals.

Though I have to admit that I was away on an overseas trip in January - February, when this all blew up. It was interesting to note that airports in the Far East were doing temperature checks and everyone was wearing masks. Yet when I arrived back into the UK, no checks, just a piece of paper handed out by the cabin crew about self-isolating if one developed any symptoms.

I just hope we don't get inundated by holidaymakers or day trippers where I live.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310092

Postby Snorvey » May 19th, 2020, 9:54 pm

Lootman wrote:I have trips planned for July and September and I am taking them. I have already cancelled two other trips in April and May.

I am done with this police state.


Try not to let the door hit your arrse on the way out.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310093

Postby Lootman » May 19th, 2020, 9:58 pm

Snorvey wrote:
Lootman wrote:I have trips planned for July and September and I am taking them. I have already cancelled two other trips in April and May.

I am done with this police state.

Try not to let the door hit your arrse on the way out.

Perhaps one of the less noticed aspects of this virus is that people here now decry their fellow citizens for doing things as heinous as walking down the street and going on holiday.

Maybe this really was a Chinese conspiracy to destablise the West after all, turning us against each other. If you are any indicator then it would appear to be working.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310095

Postby Snorvey » May 19th, 2020, 10:10 pm

You still here?

Alaric
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310097

Postby Alaric » May 19th, 2020, 10:14 pm

A piece in the Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rists.html

However
The country has offered to waive quarantine for Britons if we do the same for Greek visitors here


It was suggested a similar reciprocal arrangement could be agreed with France, but apparently the EU says "No".

Also from the Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rules.html

Unless generally ignored, a 14 day isolation period for returning holidaymakers fails a test of practicality. You've just been away for a couple of weeks. Isn't one of the first things you need to do after recovering from the holiday and travel, to stock up on perishables like milk, bread and eggs?

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310099

Postby Lootman » May 19th, 2020, 10:20 pm

Alaric wrote:Unless generally ignored, a 14 day isolation period for returning holidaymakers fails a test of practicality. You've just been away for a couple of weeks. Isn't one of the first things you need to do after recovering from the holiday and travel, to stock up on perishables like milk, bread and eggs?

I am happy to go on the record here as saying that I have zero intention of obeying the 14 day quarantine idea. I will formally "ignore" it.

The government can go F itself in the A. It has failed to convince me that such a rule is prudent or practical.

JohnB
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310109

Postby JohnB » May 19th, 2020, 11:30 pm

It has no scientific merit when we are a high risk country. I'm sure that other countries would like to reciprocate, but their tourist lobbies may be stronger than ours. Allowing travel but imposing unreasonable conditions will make it easier for airlines and travel agents to not pay compensation.

And there is the matter of the school terms being extended into August to catch up. I'm sure some parents will push for it, others will accept their children missing 3 more weeks school for one week in the sun.

I have nothing booked, and doubt I will until next year.

Moderator Message:
Edited to removed Brexit references. Please keep politics off this board

Lanark
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310111

Postby Lanark » May 20th, 2020, 12:23 am

It certainly makes no sense when the govt are still not following the WHO advice of 14 days isolation for people who have tested positive and are recovering.

So someone who was actually ill with covid 7 days ago = completely fine to go out according to the UK govt.
Somone returning from holiday with zero symptoms, maybe even tested negative = has to be quarantined.

You would think that being near bottom in all the tables might make the UK govt think that, just maybe the WHO actually know what they are talking about?

People in other countries must be wondering what has gone wrong with this country, we have become a joke.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310115

Postby servodude » May 20th, 2020, 1:10 am

Lootman wrote:
Alaric wrote:Unless generally ignored, a 14 day isolation period for returning holidaymakers fails a test of practicality. You've just been away for a couple of weeks. Isn't one of the first things you need to do after recovering from the holiday and travel, to stock up on perishables like milk, bread and eggs?

I am happy to go on the record here as saying that I have zero intention of obeying the 14 day quarantine idea. I will formally "ignore" it.

The government can go F itself in the A. It has failed to convince me that such a rule is prudent or practical.


35K+ dead people so far in the UK and you need the govt to spell out for you why unfettered importing of viruses is a bad thing?

I think you'll find if you do take your trips is that "other places" are probably going to enforce the quarantine for you on arrival
- I suspect that the UK will be viewed as a net exporter of COVID for a while (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-07/ ... e/12225130)

- sd

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310145

Postby dealtn » May 20th, 2020, 8:23 am

terminal7 wrote:- the UK is a high infection country


Without being emotive, can you explain what this means, and why you think it so please?

I am interested in how other people see risk and its measurement.

servodude
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310149

Postby servodude » May 20th, 2020, 8:40 am

dealtn wrote:
terminal7 wrote:- the UK is a high infection country


Without being emotive, can you explain what this means, and why you think it so please?

I am interested in how other people see risk and its measurement.


how about comparing say deaths due to COVID with somewhere else?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tota ... er-million
gives for the UK 512 deaths per million people
- and by contrast for Australia 4

Irrespective of whatever the infection fatality rate turns out to be is certainly looks like there's a lot of it about in the UK

- sd

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310154

Postby jackdaww » May 20th, 2020, 8:45 am

Lootman wrote:
Snorvey wrote:
Lootman wrote:I have trips planned for July and September and I am taking them. I have already cancelled two other trips in April and May.

I am done with this police state.

Try not to let the door hit your arrse on the way out.

Perhaps one of the less noticed aspects of this virus is that people here now decry their fellow citizens for doing things as heinous as walking down the street and going on holiday.

Maybe this really was a Chinese conspiracy to destablise the West after all, turning us against each other. If you are any indicator then it would appear to be working.


==========================

going on holiday will result in more deaths.

:roll:

Dod101
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310155

Postby Dod101 » May 20th, 2020, 8:50 am

Unless there is a pressing need I will not be going anywhere any time soon (probably that means for the rest of this year) I just could not be bothered because airports are bad enough at the best of times although I am happy to put up with them for the sake of getting to foreign parts.

I will though try to get to Hong Kong early next year. It is easy to get to and I know my way around pretty well. It has also dealt with the pandemic in a commendably efficient way.

Lootman is not behaving or at least he is telling us that he is not going to behave in a responsible way. He seems to be encouraging anarchy. Maybe he and Trump ought to get together.

Dod

dealtn
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310157

Postby dealtn » May 20th, 2020, 8:53 am

servodude wrote:
dealtn wrote:
terminal7 wrote:- the UK is a high infection country


Without being emotive, can you explain what this means, and why you think it so please?

I am interested in how other people see risk and its measurement.


how about comparing say deaths due to COVID with somewhere else?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tota ... er-million
gives for the UK 512 deaths per million people
- and by contrast for Australia 4

Irrespective of whatever the infection fatality rate turns out to be is certainly looks like there's a lot of it about in the UK

- sd


Well firstly anyone can choose a "low" alternative, that would fail to convince anyone. (Both might be considered low risk, albeit one lower than the other, and some might even think the higher is closer to herd immunity and if infection rates have now fallen dramatically it was now safer).

But more importantly this is surely all about looking forward not backwards. Current infection rates might be very low, perhaps lower than other parts of the world. By the time airports are "open" again that could be much lower still.

If R=0.1 in both England and France, but R=0.5 in Scotland would you think "logically" it would be ok to have an open border between England and Scotland, but not between England and France?

Similarly if R=0.05 in general communities in England but R=2 in care homes how would you decide what is appropriate movement between those 2 communities.

Now I am not trying to be controversial, nor seeking a "discussion" on Covid, there are other places for that, this is "Airport Lounge", but I am trying to establish why some think risks are different to others, and can get quite emotive about it (such as the original post), when making judgements about practical policy responses.

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310160

Postby servodude » May 20th, 2020, 9:00 am

dealtn wrote:
servodude wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Without being emotive, can you explain what this means, and why you think it so please?

I am interested in how other people see risk and its measurement.


how about comparing say deaths due to COVID with somewhere else?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tota ... er-million
gives for the UK 512 deaths per million people
- and by contrast for Australia 4

Irrespective of whatever the infection fatality rate turns out to be is certainly looks like there's a lot of it about in the UK

- sd


Well firstly anyone can choose a "low" alternative, that would fail to convince anyone. (Both might be considered low risk, albeit one lower than the other, and some might even think the higher is closer to herd immunity and if infection rates have now fallen dramatically it was now safer).

But more importantly this is surely all about looking forward not backwards. Current infection rates might be very low, perhaps lower than other parts of the world. By the time airports are "open" again that could be much lower still.

If R=0.1 in both England and France, but R=0.5 in Scotland would you think "logically" it would be ok to have an open border between England and Scotland, but not between England and France?

Similarly if R=0.05 in general communities in England but R=2 in care homes how would you decide what is appropriate movement between those 2 communities.

Now I am not trying to be controversial, nor seeking a "discussion" on Covid, there are other places for that, this is "Airport Lounge", but I am trying to establish why some think risks are different to others, and can get quite emotive about it (such as the original post), when making judgements about practical policy responses.


R is a gradient
I thought we were talking about the size of the hill
Have fun
-sd

dealtn
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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310164

Postby dealtn » May 20th, 2020, 9:05 am

servodude wrote:R is a gradient
I thought we were talking about the size of the hill
Have fun
-sd


We are talking about transmission, and likely chance of getting the virus I would think.

If I were climbing a hill the chances of me tripping up on my next step are much more correlated with the gradient of my next step, not how high I am, or how far I have climbed. Why do you think differently?

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Re: Are we all going on holiday?

#310166

Postby jackdaww » May 20th, 2020, 9:12 am

isnt flying simply a no no ?

i understand aircraft air conditioning continuously re cycles the air through the cabin .

that would mean anyone onboard infected will shed virus and everyone else would be exposed .

if so , thats foolhardy at a bare minimum.

if someone thus gets infected , and subsequently does not self isolate , they will pass on the virus to others .

:?: :?:


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