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Travel Bridges or...??

Holiday Ideas & Foreign Travel
mutantpoodle
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Travel Bridges or...??

#321648

Postby mutantpoodle » June 26th, 2020, 8:26 am

Travel Bridges.........where do they start

I have yet to see anywhere what segregation is planned after getting off the plane (I am talking on arrival in UK)
from my experience one walks often a long way along corriidors mixing with arrivals from all sorts of places
you then fight your way through passport control (even if using electric gates) and then jon a scrum at baggage collection

no mention anywhere of caution or control re where you came from

a few media folk have mentioned then jumping on buses/trains/tubes etc to get home...but surely by then its too late??

or have our glorious MPs yet to face this issue (problem)
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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#321653

Postby swill453 » June 26th, 2020, 8:36 am

Well as I understand it, the current "quarantine" restrictions don't go much further than asking arrivals to fill in a form with contact details and telling them to not leave the house for 14 days. They can still jostle for baggage, take public transport home, etc.

So the grand "air bridge" concept is quite simple to implement. Just stop asking them to fill in the form. Simples.

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#321686

Postby mutantpoodle » June 26th, 2020, 9:52 am

I think that you are quite correct Scott
If only our 'leaders' didnt spend (WASTE) so much time discussing it...perhaps they could focus on something that might be of benefit to the majority!!

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322004

Postby GrahamPlatt » June 27th, 2020, 11:17 am

Will this then mean that people returning to the UK from any of these “bridged” countries on and including the 6th of July will no longer be subject to the quarantine rules? Return on the 5th and they get 14 day’s incarceration, on the 6th they’re exempt?

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322009

Postby swill453 » June 27th, 2020, 11:37 am

GrahamPlatt wrote:Will this then mean that people returning to the UK from any of these “bridged” countries on and including the 6th of July will no longer be subject to the quarantine rules? Return on the 5th and they get 14 day’s incarceration, on the 6th they’re exempt?

Officially probably yes.

But if there are actually any checks right now that returnees from, say, Spain are obeying quarantine* then I expect they'll be stood down sharpish.

* - anecdotally there isn't much of an effort being made.

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322068

Postby Lootman » June 27th, 2020, 2:32 pm

mutantpoodle wrote:Travel Bridges.........where do they start

I have yet to see anywhere what segregation is planned after getting off the plane (I am talking on arrival in UK)
from my experience one walks often a long way along corriidors mixing with arrivals from all sorts of places
you then fight your way through passport control (even if using electric gates) and then join a scrum at baggage collection

If you go through the e-gates then there is no existing infrastructure to stop you and ask you where you have been. So if the UK is serious about this then an extra level of control would be needed, which would involve stopping everyone and interviewing them. Clearly that will cause massive delays if implemented properly. I'm not even sure there is the space in some airports and terminals to handle that.

And whoever is checking you has no real way of knowing where you have been. That is why they often ask you, but of course they won't know if you are lying (unless your passport was stamped).

This will get more messy if and when the EU implements its ban on arrivals from certain countries. Those plans currently include the US. I find it hard to believe that the UK would ban arrivals from the US. But again, if the UK goes along with that, then it's the same problem. How do you stop every arriving passenger and check that they aren't arriving from the US?

And of course you can get around that by flying from the US to the UK via some third non-EU country like Iceland or Norway.

The whole thing is stupid.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322206

Postby servodude » June 28th, 2020, 8:27 am

Lootman wrote:So if the UK is serious about this then an extra level of control would be needed, which would involve stopping everyone and interviewing them


Fill in a form on the plane
Disembark by category

With current traffic rates it's pretty easy

-sd (just back from an airport where it's done thus)

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322207

Postby Dod101 » June 28th, 2020, 8:34 am

sd is surely correct. The picture being painted is with Heathrow et al at full flow which, it is pretty obvious, it is not at the moment and seems unlikely to be for some time.

Dod

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322252

Postby Lootman » June 28th, 2020, 12:48 pm

servodude wrote:
Lootman wrote:So if the UK is serious about this then an extra level of control would be needed, which would involve stopping everyone and interviewing them

Fill in a form on the plane
Disembark by category

With current traffic rates it's pretty easy

-sd (just back from an airport where it's done thus)

What do you mean by "disembark by category"?

Sure, passengers can fill out a form on the plane like we used to do with immigration cards. But you'd still need some kind of checkpoint to collect them, which doesn't exist currently.

But my real point was about enforcement. How would the checkers know which flight you were on i.e. where you came from? The assumption is that nobody lies on the card. But if a passenger is coming from a country that is on the banned list or requires 14 days quarantine, then they have a motivation to lie.

I am flying to the US next month, and returning later in the month. Right now I am suppose to self-quarantine when I return. In fact, there is talk of banning travel from the US to the EU because of high infection rates in some parts of the US.

So this isn't just an academic question for me.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322262

Postby swill453 » June 28th, 2020, 1:07 pm

Lootman wrote:What do you mean by "disembark by category"?

Sure, passengers can fill out a form on the plane like we used to do with immigration cards. But you'd still need some kind of checkpoint to collect them, which doesn't exist currently.

But my real point was about enforcement. How would the checkers know which flight you were on i.e. where you came from? The assumption is that nobody lies on the card. But if a passenger is coming from a country that is on the banned list or requires 14 days quarantine, then they have a motivation to lie.

I am flying to the US next month, and returning later in the month. Right now I am suppose to self-quarantine when I return. In fact, there is talk of banning travel from the US to the EU because of high infection rates in some parts of the US.

So this isn't just an academic question for me.

I think you're missing the point. We already have quarantine for anybody coming in. How it's logged, monitored or enforced I don't know in detail, but it exists to a greater or lesser extent.

The new lists are about removing some of this for some countries.

And there's no "banned" list.

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322264

Postby Lootman » June 28th, 2020, 1:16 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:What do you mean by "disembark by category"?

Sure, passengers can fill out a form on the plane like we used to do with immigration cards. But you'd still need some kind of checkpoint to collect them, which doesn't exist currently.

But my real point was about enforcement. How would the checkers know which flight you were on i.e. where you came from? The assumption is that nobody lies on the card. But if a passenger is coming from a country that is on the banned list or requires 14 days quarantine, then they have a motivation to lie.

I am flying to the US next month, and returning later in the month. Right now I am suppose to self-quarantine when I return. In fact, there is talk of banning travel from the US to the EU because of high infection rates in some parts of the US.

So this isn't just an academic question for me.

I think you're missing the point. We already have quarantine for anybody coming in. How it's logged, monitored or enforced I don't know in detail, but it exists to a greater or lesser extent.

The new lists are about removing some of this for some countries.

And there's no "banned" list.

The EU is currently considering a banned list. It would include countries that have an infection rate above a certain number. On current counts this would include the US and Brazil.

Assuming that individual countries do not opt out of that, it is quite possible that Americans won't be able to visit most of Europe some time in July. Whether a British person returning from the US will be affected isn't clear yet.

The two things are similar. They both require some extra steps for arriving passengers, and someone to check it. In extreme cases the arriving passenger could be sent back (if they are on the banned list or if they refuse to complete the card or lie on it).

I guess my view is that if the checks are effective then the process will be ponderous to conduct. If it is more on the honour system, then abuse will be widespread and it won't work. I will let you know which next month :D

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322265

Postby PinkDalek » June 28th, 2020, 1:17 pm

Lootman wrote:[I am flying to the US next month, and returning later in the month. Right now I am suppose to self-quarantine when I return. In fact, there is talk of banning travel from the US to the EU because of high infection rates in some parts of the US.

So this isn't just an academic question for me.


Will you be allowed in to the USA?

You mentioned elsewhere that one of you has a couple of passports (I'm guessing not you) and I think you've said previously you are not a US citizen but perhaps you qualify under one of the exemptions:

US citizens and permanent residents of the USA, certain specified close family members and certain other limited categories of visas holders (such as UN staff and diplomats) are exempt. They will still be able to enter the USA, subject to normal entry requirements.


I'm sure you are already aware of this:

A Presidential Executive Order of 22 June means that further restrictions on certain visas (H1-B, H2-B, J and L) will be put in place from 24 June. To see if you are affected please refer to the US Government’s travel page.

Both extracts from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322266

Postby Lootman » June 28th, 2020, 1:19 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
Lootman wrote:[I am flying to the US next month, and returning later in the month. Right now I am suppose to self-quarantine when I return. In fact, there is talk of banning travel from the US to the EU because of high infection rates in some parts of the US.

So this isn't just an academic question for me.

Will you be allowed in to the USA?

You mentioned elsewhere that one of you has a couple of passports (I'm guessing not you) and I think you've said previously you are not a US citizen but perhaps you qualify under one of the exemptions:

US citizens and permanent residents of the USA, certain specified close family members and certain other limited categories of visas holders (such as UN staff and diplomats) are exempt. They will still be able to enter the USA, subject to normal entry requirements.


I'm sure you are already aware of this:

A Presidential Executive Order of 22 June means that further restrictions on certain visas (H1-B, H2-B, J and L) will be put in place from 24 June. To see if you are affected please refer to the US Government’s travel page.

Both extracts from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements

My wife is a US citizen with a US passport. I will be admitted as a "close family member" accompanying her.

When we enter the US together, we both go through the "US citizens and resident aliens" booth, and it is never a problem.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322275

Postby swill453 » June 28th, 2020, 1:27 pm

Lootman wrote:
swill453 wrote:And there's no "banned" list.

The EU is currently considering a banned list. It would include countries that have an infection rate above a certain number. On current counts this would include the US and Brazil.

We were talking about the UK surely?

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322278

Postby Lootman » June 28th, 2020, 1:32 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:
swill453 wrote:And there's no "banned" list.

The EU is currently considering a banned list. It would include countries that have an infection rate above a certain number. On current counts this would include the US and Brazil.

We were talking about the UK surely?

The UK is still in the EU.

The UK would be allowed to opt out, if it chooses. I hope it does, at least in respect of any US ban.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322282

Postby swill453 » June 28th, 2020, 1:41 pm

Lootman wrote:The UK is still in the EU.

Have you been asleep for the last 4 years?

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322284

Postby Lootman » June 28th, 2020, 1:46 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:The UK is still in the EU.

Have you been asleep for the last 4 years?

My understanding is that 2020 is a transitional period. We remain subject to EU rules until the end of the year.

In respect of travel you will notice this as you pass through Heathrow because there is one immigration area for EU citizens, which British passengers use. Presumably that will change at year-end, but I don't know how it will work then.

That said, the ban that the EU is contemplating is not binding on EU members, so the UK could opt out. I'm not sure if any Schengen nation can opt out. If the UK opts out then I imagine that Ireland will as well.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322285

Postby Howard » June 28th, 2020, 1:47 pm

Maybe the UK could use the system which the USA used. Passengers had to fill in an immigration form given out on the plane. Then you had to queue for (hours) to get to a booth where a surly individual took your fingerprints and entered your details onto the system. Any problems with your form and you were in trouble!

I remember years ago sitting at the front of Business Class, travelling to the USA and occasionally enviously glimpsing the wonderful service in First Class in the front of the plane. I noticed a guy, wearing an immaculate suit and enjoying the service. (I imagined it was an Armani, cost around $5,000 - but what would I know. :( )

He was just in front of me in the interminable queue for immigration at the US airport and to my amusement, hadn’t filled in the form correctly. He was told off and sent to the back behind the long line of economy passengers to get it right and I never saw him again! :lol:

I’m sure UK immigration are much kinder. But it’s probable worth obeying the rules - even if they are designed by a pretty incompetent government. ;)

regards

Howard

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322286

Postby swill453 » June 28th, 2020, 1:52 pm

Lootman wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:The UK is still in the EU.

Have you been asleep for the last 4 years?

My understanding is that 2020 is a transitional period. We remain subject to EU rules until the end of the year.

In respect of travel you will notice this as you pass through Heathrow because there is one immigration area for EU citizens, which British passengers use. Presumably that will change at year-end, but I don't know how it will work then.

That said, the ban that the EU is contemplating is not binding on EU members, so the UK could opt out. I'm not sure if any Schengen nation can opt out. If the UK opts out then I imagine that Ireland will as well.

We're not in the EU.

We're not contemplating any ban.

Scott.

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Re: Travel Bridges or...??

#322287

Postby servodude » June 28th, 2020, 1:55 pm

Lootman wrote:What do you mean by "disembark by category"?


You'll be familiar with the "landing card" for Visas, quarantine is handled similarly
- this was inter-state aus flying this time but its the same process that's used for international flights in most places that have actual quarantine (its in play here as Tasmania are really strict at the moment)

Basically residents leave the plane first, then exempt/excused, then quarantined
- each group goes a different way on disembarking
- the wife's seat on the plane was also changed at check-in when her status was confirmed (exemption paperwork finalised between ticket purchase and flight) to make the process simpler

-sd


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