Sicilian scams

[swill453]

We're not long back from a week in Sicily (which was amazing) and I thought I'd pass on details of a couple of "scams" we were caught out by.

The first one is a legal scam, and we only fell for it because we hadn't realised the way the fuel stations work there. This was a bright shiny Esso station in the city, nothing dodgy about it. The roadside sign showed a price of 1.67 euros per litre. I pulled up at the first row of pumps, and got out of the car to remove the fuel cap. An attendant, who spoke little English, indicated that he was going to fill me up, and started to do so. After he'd started I looked at the display on the pump, and saw that the petrol he was serving me was 1.92 euros per litre!

By pointing and sign language I queried it and his only response was "service". It turns out that garages there have 2 types of pumps, served and self-service, and you only get the cheaper street-advertised price if you go to a self-service one. They are labelled, but obviously I wasn't even looking out for such a thing.

So I had got out of the car, removed the cap myself, and still paid about an extra 10 quid for the tankful!

The second one was a real scam, but again we only fell for it due to naivety. We used a toll motorway for the first time, and pulled up at the tollgate entrance. There was a ticket machine with a woman standing next to it who was wearing a money pouch. She pressed the button on the machine, gave me the ticket and asked for 5 euros, which of course I handed over.

We drove about 40 miles and exited via a toll booth. I handed the ticket over, and the machine showed I was to pay 1.17 euros. Fair enough I though, maybe the 5 euros was some kind of fixed deposit, and the distance we had driven meant a surcharge was payable.

It was only later in the day when we drove the same route in reverse, there was nobody at the entrance and we took the ticket ourselves without having to pay anything. And of course the exit fee at the other end was the same 1.17 euros. The woman we gave the 5 euros to was a complete brazen scammer. If challenged I guess she would have tried to say she was providing a "service" by pressing the button on the machine and handing us the ticket.

So we wouldn't get caught out again, but it still burns a bit!

Scott.

[BobbyD]

Describing your lack of knowledge of the region you are transacting in's culture as a scam seems somewhat off, handing somebody stood next to a machine a reasonable sum of money for passing you the ticket the machine spits out a touch gullible. They were cheap lessons, not scams.

[swill453]

Describing your lack of knowledge of the region you are transacting in's culture as a scam seems somewhat off, handing somebody stood next to a machine a reasonable sum of money for passing you the ticket the machine spits out a touch gullible. They were cheap lessons, not scams.

OK I kind of agree the first one wasn't too scam-like, and I did admit it was legal.

But the second one, obviously I was gullible because I was a tourist had no idea whether toll roads there were pay on entry or pay on exit. Pay money, get a ticket would be a highly believable way that they could work. But she absolutely was a scammer, preying on such tourists.

Scott.

[BobbyD]

Describing your lack of knowledge of the region you are transacting in's culture as a scam seems somewhat off, handing somebody stood next to a machine a reasonable sum of money for passing you the ticket the machine spits out a touch gullible. They were cheap lessons, not scams.

OK I kind of agree the first one wasn't too scam-like, and I did admit it was legal.

But the second one, obviously I was gullible because I was a tourist had no idea whether toll roads there were pay on entry or pay on exit. Pay money, get a ticket would be a highly believable way that they could work. But she absolutely was a scammer, preying on such tourists.

Scott.

A scam requires dishonesty. How did she deceive you? That's just good honest initiative! It's also pretty harmless, a lesson learnt, and an anecdote all for a mere €5. She should have charged more! Italy does have some very real issues, I wouldn't have gone as far as classifying this as a scam.

It's the person stood next to the machine which would have had me questioning it. Half of two different systems.

[GrahamPlatt]

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

[swill453]

A scam requires dishonesty. How did she deceive you? That's just good honest initiative! It's also pretty harmless, a lesson learnt, and an anecdote all for a mere €5. She should have charged more! Italy does have some very real issues, I wouldn't have gone as far as classifying this as a scam.

It's the person stood next to the machine which would have had me questioning it. Half of two different systems.

We agree to differ. Standing next to the machine, looking official and demanding money. How many of us, the first time encountering an Italian toll road, and with split seconds to think about it, would have the confidence to refuse to pay?

Scott.

[swill453]

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

Yeah I'll know next time

Scott.

[BobbyD]

A scam requires dishonesty. How did she deceive you? That's just good honest initiative! It's also pretty harmless, a lesson learnt, and an anecdote all for a mere €5. She should have charged more! Italy does have some very real issues, I wouldn't have gone as far as classifying this as a scam.

It's the person stood next to the machine which would have had me questioning it. Half of two different systems.

We agree to differ. Standing next to the machine, looking official and demanding money. How many of us, the first time encountering an Italian toll road, and with split seconds to think about it, would have the confidence to refuse to pay?

Scott.

Well anybody who had done 5 minutes reading prior to their trip...

Your not having the knowledge or the confidence doesn't make it a scam. She's a chancer sure, and she is profiting from your asymmetry in knowledge, and it's probably quite a reasonable income at a busy toll, but dishonesty is literally a part of the definition of a scam and I'm not sure a predilection for dressing like a low level government functionary makes the grade in that regard, and to reference your attitude to the first instance I doubt it is actually illegal... Did you watch how the cars ahead of you handled her, or did you have a clear approach?

[swill453]

A scam requires dishonesty. How did she deceive you? That's just good honest initiative! It's also pretty harmless, a lesson learnt, and an anecdote all for a mere €5. She should have charged more! Italy does have some very real issues, I wouldn't have gone as far as classifying this as a scam.

It's the person stood next to the machine which would have had me questioning it. Half of two different systems.

We agree to differ. Standing next to the machine, looking official and demanding money. How many of us, the first time encountering an Italian toll road, and with split seconds to think about it, would have the confidence to refuse to pay?

Well anybody who had done 5 minutes reading prior to their trip...

Your not having the knowledge or the confidence doesn't make it a scam. She's a chancer sure, and she is profiting from your asymmetry in knowledge, and it's probably quite a reasonable income at a busy toll, but dishonesty is literally a part of the definition of a scam and I'm not sure a predilection for dressing like a low level government functionary makes the grade in that regard, and to reference your attitude to the first instance I doubt it is actually illegal... Did you watch how the cars ahead of you handled her, or did you have a clear approach?

With reference to your last point - I had a clear approach.

With reference to the rest of your utterings - whatever...

Scott.

[GoSeigen]

A scam requires dishonesty. How did she deceive you? That's just good honest initiative! It's also pretty harmless, a lesson learnt, and an anecdote all for a mere €5. She should have charged more! Italy does have some very real issues, I wouldn't have gone as far as classifying this as a scam.

It's the person stood next to the machine which would have had me questioning it. Half of two different systems.

We agree to differ. Standing next to the machine, looking official and demanding money. How many of us, the first time encountering an Italian toll road, and with split seconds to think about it, would have the confidence to refuse to pay?

<pedant>I know reaching agreement is difficult, but could we try at least? Was she standing next to the machine or was she stood next to the machine?</pedant>

The word scam works for me, even with BobbyD's tight definition. She was dishonest in that she impersonated an official and passed off the EUR5 as payment for the toll, which it wasn't. If no dishonesty were involved she would have paid the toll on the driver's behalf and issued a receipt detailing the toll amount (EUR1.50) and the service amount (EUR3.50). Obviously this business model is not viable so I can't conclude other than that trickery is involved.

GS

[pje16]

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

I wonder if Italians get caught out or is it a "touristy" thing

[GrahamPlatt]

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

I wonder if Italians get caught out or is it a "touristy" thing

I don’t know what it is. Having recently driven through Italy, I often saw people - Italians, not tourists, usually women - drive up to the serviced pump, sit it their cars while it was filled by the attendant, and pay through the window. i.e. never leaving their car. Weather was fine, so it wasn’t that. Security? Dunno. But the price difference is significant.

[GoSeigen]

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

I wonder if Italians get caught out or is it a "touristy" thing

I don’t know what it is. Having recently driven through Italy, I often saw people - Italians, not tourists, usually women - drive up to the serviced pump, sit it their cars while it was filled by the attendant, and pay through the window. i.e. never leaving their car. Weather was fine, so it wasn’t that. Security? Dunno. But the price difference is significant.

[My bold]

What is significant? I live in a place where service is provided and pay 5% of the fuel price for the service. Does that qualify as significant? (The OP paid 15%.)

GS

[BobbyD]

The word scam works for me, even with BobbyD's tight definition. She was dishonest in that she impersonated an official and passed off the EUR5 as payment for the toll, which it wasn't.

Did she though? Or did she just allow those who are less familiar with the set up to believe that she was an official? If she actually claimed to be an official then yes it's a scam, if she allowed the op to put 2 and 2 together and come to the answer of 7 not so much.

Your first lesson (self-service vs serviced) is the way of all Italy, not just Sicily.

I wonder if Italians get caught out or is it a "touristy" thing

I don’t know what it is. Having recently driven through Italy, I often saw people - Italians, not tourists, usually women - drive up to the serviced pump, sit it their cars while it was filled by the attendant, and pay through the window. i.e. never leaving their car. Weather was fine, so it wasn’t that. Security? Dunno. But the price difference is significant.

Didn't want to pump their own petrol? It's a discretionary service available if the customer wants it. I doubt they were all driving the cheapest trim of the cheapest car available either and the price difference there is much more significant...

[Tara]

If you holiday in the home of the Mafia, you probably just have to accept a bit of location risk.

[DiamondEcho]

I often saw people - Italians, not tourists, usually women - drive up to the serviced pump, sit it their cars while it was filled by the attendant, and pay through the window. i.e. never leaving their car. Weather was fine, so it wasn’t that. Security? Dunno.

Works the same way in Japan, and you pay the regular marked price, this hyper-efficient service is just how it is. They have a parallel in Turkey too, you pay the price on the big sign at entry, though you might choose to tip the guy a coin or two.

Of course in the UK it used to operate how it still does in Japan, IME well through the 70s.

[Urtew]

Let's say the first one is a tourist trap rather than scam. But it's annoying. The best bet is to go to petrol station when it is closed (night, holidays), cause they are all set to automatic (banknotes, credit cards) and prices are also a bit lower. This is true for whole Italy. Beware however for beggars that poses as servants and want to tank for you and then demand money. Ignore them. Otherwise in order to tank without service look for the tracks: SELF or FAI DA TE.

As for the second, yes it is a scam, no matter that it is only for a small amount but it's a SCAM. Could be also worse i.e. she just demanded money and gave you no ticket. Then you pay also fine at the end. In Italy you always pay at the end when leaving autostrada. There are few but really very few tool boots when you just pay but get no ticket i.e. Torino ring road. But they are few.

Here is a good list of annoyances,traps and scams in Sicily but they apply also for the rest of the Italy and some also for other countries:

search google: simsoneblog scams sicily

[Padders72]

I've visited and driven in Sicily many times and found it no worse, better in fact than mainland Italy for fun and games like the above. In fact once when we had to return a hire car with damage (sustained when my wife stopped at a round about and was rear ended) I was very pleasantly surprise that they charged much less than a UK repairer or hire co would have, like €100. Yes the bugger who did the damage drove off but is that a surprise? That's not uncommon round my own way, where insurance is optional it seems.

It is easy to pull ones own bad experiences into a stereotype but I dont think Sicily needs singling out like this. I've seen much much worse in Barcelona where pickpocketing is endemic or Greece in general. I found Sicily a very welcoming and honest place in the main. Tried driving in France lately? The speeding fine fraud is brutal.

If you go anywhere in as a stranger and are naive, then don't be surprised when grifters take the Mick. Do your homework!

[TaurusTheBull]

Hi,

I'd say that €5 was cheap for the subsequent swapping of stories and information on lemonfool. These travel lessons are usually worth paying because they are long remembered, but our pride may not readily accept them.

Seriously, I've been scammed 3 or 4 times over the years, though not recently, so I must be learning. That's not including, for example, minor scams such as the vendor in Peru refusing my 5 nuevo sol for a postcard in 2008 because the taxi driver had given me fake change.

Taurus