Windows 10 license types & good places to buy

[Julian]

My current PC is running an OEM version of Windows 7 Professional upgraded to Windows 10 during Microsoft's free-upgrade period. I'm now planning to move to a completely new NUC-based system and everything that I've read tells me that I won't be able to transfer the license, the mobo change being the thing that really kills the transferability I believe. I'm hoping that my next PC will last me at least 5 years, maybe longer, but one never knows so I'm considering paying a premium when I license my new PC to get a full retail version of Windows that would then be transferable to any new machine. In retrospect I wish I'd done that last time.

Buying a stand-alone OS is a nightmare with all the dodgy stuff out there and sometimes even the reputable vendors aren't clear in their descriptions whether it is a retail or an OEM license being sold. To be safe I think I've found a Microsoft SKU that is definitely the retail version (FQC-09131). Even when looking for that specific SKU though it's laughable what Google Shopping shows with prices ranging from what I assume is a genuine FQC-09131 product at £220 (direct from Microsoft) vs what must be some seriously dodgy and definitely not retail versions at £21.37!

Does anyone have any recommendations for reputable sellers with good prices for retail copies of Windows? Microsoft's own web store is the obvious one but at £220 there would definitely seem to be savings to be had by going elsewhere. I've dealt with Scan and eBuyer before and they are selling at £182 and £179 respectively (rounding up the pennies) or even Curry's Business at £181 which I assume are all squeaky-clean but just wondering if there are any reputable places that offer deeper discounts that I might be missing. Maybe it's just me but I find it a bit disconcerting when the cheapest price that I'm finding, give or take a couple of quid, is PC World!

Depending on what sort of honest discounted price I could find it's also becoming a bit of a marginal thing anyway. If I end up paying twice as much for the retail version I could buy OEM and if I need to repurchase another OEM license for an upgrade I would still be breaking even. Then again, prices do go up so a license purchase in 4 or 5 years time is almost certain to be more expensive than the one I'm about to make so transferability would still seem to be useful - if it lasts that long. I suppose it also depends on whether Microsoft ever charge a version update fee again or whether all future Windows improvements comes from rolling Windows 10 upgrades or, if there is another version update in the future, Microsoft offers the same sort of limited-time free upgrade window in which case if it worked the way the Windows 7/8->10 upgrade did I would be upgrading a retail license and hence keep transferability in any new versions.

What are people's thoughts about how the whole Microsoft licensing model is likely to evolve and whether, as someone who always builds his own PCs, it is worth paying approximately double to get a retail version now in the hope of avoiding ever needing to buy another copy of Windows again? I'm definitely leaning towards just biting the bullet and getting a retail version. I'm very happy with Windows so I have no hankering to go Linux or Apple in the foreseeable future.

- Julian

[Infrasonic]

You can still get the free upgrade from W7 to W10 even though it's officially finished, so a legit full retail W7 pro license might be cheaper?

[Itsallaguess]

You can still get the free upgrade from W7 to W10 even though it's officially finished, so a legit full retail W7 pro license might be cheaper?

This is the route I took when I built my Windows 10 Pro AS-Rock H110 box.

The Windows 7 Pro key cost me £14 from Software Geeks, and then I used the Windows 10 creation tool to upgrade free to a Windows 10 Pro install.

Instructions and still-working links are in my April 2018 post detailing the process here -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11345&p=134124#p134124

I initially took that route not only to make what looked like a good saving on the installation, but to also give me the option of back-porting to the initial Windows 7 install if I didn't like Windows 10. As it happens, I quickly got used to the Windows 10 Pro environment, and have stuck with it ever since.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Infrasonic]

From the above Itsallaguess post links...https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product/windows-10-pro/
On sale reduced to £19.99

I'm very tempted to upgrade my W10 home at that price...

Edit:Trustpilot reviews here, scores very highly...https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/softwaregeeks.co.uk

[Julian]

Thanks Infrasonic and Itsallaguess. For that price I think I'll just stick with OEM and buy that £20 key and go straight to a Win 10 Pro full/fresh install. At that price I'm even tempted to buy a couple and keep one in reserve in case I do get the PC-upgrade-itch in 2 or 3 years time and simply can't resist another full system upgrade.

I notice that those SoftwareGeek keys are identified as volume licensing keys ("The product comes with step-by-step instructions for installation/activation, along with a volume license product key"). Is that anything to worry about? Is selling such a key as a one-off to a retail customer breaking any Microsoft rules or bending them so far as to be a bit dodgy?

- Julian

[GeoffF100]

Instructions and still-working links are in my April 2018 post detailing the process here -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11345&p=134124#p134124

4. Use the Windows 10 installation tool to upgrade your Windows 7 Pro install to a Windows 10 Pro install.

How did you do that?

[Itsallaguess]

Instructions and still-working links are in my April 2018 post detailing the process here -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11345&p=134124#p134124

4. Use the Windows 10 installation tool to upgrade your Windows 7 Pro install to a Windows 10 Pro install.

How did you do that?

If you go to the Media Creation Tool download page, the instructions are on there -

https://tinyurl.com/q8oqvug

On the above page, select the first '+' sign below the 'Download Tool Now' button, and you'll see the instructions on how to 'Upgrade this PC now' to Windows 10, from a position of having a working and licensed version of Windows 7.

I did that from a Windows 7 Pro position, and now have Windows 10 Pro installed and licensed on my box...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Infrasonic]

Thanks Infrasonic and Itsallaguess. For that price I think I'll just stick with OEM and buy that £20 key and go straight to a Win 10 Pro full/fresh install. At that price I'm even tempted to buy a couple and keep one in reserve in case I do get the PC-upgrade-itch in 2 or 3 years time and simply can't resist another full system upgrade.

I notice that those SoftwareGeek keys are identified as volume licensing keys ("The product comes with step-by-step instructions for installation/activation, along with a volume license product key"). Is that anything to worry about? Is selling such a key as a one-off to a retail customer breaking any Microsoft rules or bending them so far as to be a bit dodgy?

- Julian

There's been debate on here and on TMF about how legit it is. There's no black and white answer as MS cloud the waters themselves with their EULA wording and the way they operate in practice, which is extremely inconsistent.
Morally it's down to the individual to make a judgement call. I'm a lot happier buying off Software Geeks as they seem to be a legitimate operation with good user feedback. How far you take the due diligence is a moot point as you could apply the same criteria to any company you do business with.
I generally do a companies house search or other free credit/directors checking service before ordering anything major over the web. Multiple resigned directorships, company insolvencies or overdue accounts and I tend to shy away.

I can't see how some of these eBay sellers that knock out licenses for under a fiver can be legit, I'd certainly not go that far to get a cheaper license, but there are users on the boards who have done it without any license suspension issues.

Caveat emptor...

[BobbyD]

I can't see how some of these eBay sellers that knock out licenses for under a fiver can be legit, I'd certainly not go that far to get a cheaper license, but there are users on the boards who have done it without any license suspension issues.

Caveat emptor...

There's another advantage to cheap ebay licenses, Paypal. If you aren't familiar with the vendor having a recognised intermediary with decent consumer protection between you and them takes all the risk out of guessing how legitimate they are.

There's also nothing to indicate that the traders aren't legitimate, just suspicion. To work out whether it's profitable you'd have to know how they came by them.

[GeoffF100]

I notice that those SoftwareGeek keys are identified as volume licensing keys ("The product comes with step-by-step instructions for installation/activation, along with a volume license product key"). Is that anything to worry about? Is selling such a key as a one-off to a retail customer breaking any Microsoft rules or bending them so far as to be a bit dodgy

Previously, it has been said that the Microsoft conditions forbid resale, but this restriction is not permitted by EU law, and is unenforcible within the EU.

[Breelander]

I notice that those SoftwareGeek keys are identified as volume licensing keys ("The product comes with step-by-step instructions for installation/activation, along with a volume license product key"). Is that anything to worry about? Is selling such a key as a one-off to a retail customer breaking any Microsoft rules or bending them so far as to be a bit dodgy

Previously, it has been said that the Microsoft conditions forbid resale, but this restriction is not permitted by EU law, and is unenforcible within the EU.

The EU ruling applies specifically to the resale of single use OEM licences and full Retail licences. It is not applicable to volume licensing. An OEM licence according to the MS EULA is supposed to only be for use by small system builders. They are meant to install the OEM windows on a system that is then to be sold on. The EULA forbids the resale, purchase and use of an OEM licence for personal use. It it this that the EU has ruled against. This ruling also applies to the resale of a full Retail licence, of course it is still a violation of the EULA to use one key to activate installs on two different machines at the same time. It's only legal to sell on a licence if it is first un-installed from the original PC.

Volume licensing contracts strictly forbid the selling on of individual licences and the MAK key that goes with it without strict conditions on the reseller to register the purchaser with Microsoft. It is highly unlikely that any of the eBay sellers have bothered to apply to Microsoft for permission to resell volume licences.

...only some types of Microsoft volume license can be transferred, provided a formal transfer process is completed, which enables Microsoft to register the new owner. A very small number of software vendors specialize in brokering such transfers in order to allow the selling of volume licenses and keys. The most notable of these, Discount-Licensing, pioneered the sale of Microsoft volume licenses in this way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_licensing

So the sale of volume licencing MAK keys is a grey area, verging on nearly black. It is not out of the question that at some time in the future Microsoft may block a MAK key that has been abused in this way, possibly deactivating a windows install that has used it.

When you activate your windows with a MAK key this key will be stored in the registry, so how you activated can be identified. However, the digital licence stored on the activation servers does not store the key that was used to activate your PC. If you wanted to cover your tracks, then wipe the drive after activating. Then do a clean install, clicking 'I don't have a key' when asked. This will install W10 and activate from the digital licence, but will only have the generic key in the registry.

[Julian]

From the above Itsallaguess post links...https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product/windows-10-pro/
On sale reduced to £19.99

I'm very tempted to upgrade my W10 home at that price...

Edit:Trustpilot reviews here, scores very highly...https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/softwaregeeks.co.uk

I'll update again in case this is a simple misunderstanding but right now I would not recommend Software Geeks, or at least treat their claims of instant license key delivery with extreme caution.

I placed an order with them for 1 x Win 10 Pro key at just past midday on Sunday. I got the email from Paypal immediately after placing the order to confirm my payment and the order confirmation page on the SoftwareGeeks site said "Your order contains one or more temporary keys. We will soon update your order with live license keys". The "temporary key" was a 9 digit numeric code and not a windows XXXXX- ... -XXXXX format key so not actually a license key at all (I think - is it accurate to say that?).

Anyway, the site says that the best way to contact them is live chat in the right corner of the screen but that is not there in either Chrome or Edge browsers. They did not respond at all yesterday to a request I submitted on the web site contact form on Sunday and there is no phone number on the site so I have just emailed them. Luckily I usually take a copy of any web confirmation page after an order so I was able to attach a copy of that as well.

As I say, maybe it is just a mishap (on multiple levels) but right now they are a company I wish I had not placed an order with and I would advise fellow Fools to use extreme caution. If they do turn out to be bad it is also a worrying indictment on how much one can trust a company's TrustPilot score as well, might they be becoming like review ratings and be subject to distortion by interested parties?

At least I paid by Paypal so can file a complaint there if necessary, and it's only £19.99 anyway, but I would rather have had the 24/7 immediate email delivery of the license key that is promised on their web site without all this hassle.

- Julian

[Julian]

OK. I did get a reply from SoftwareGeeks within 2 hours which is acceptable although not sure why they never replied to my web form request which they had the whole of yesterday to respond to. Apparently they "had an issue with our (<their>) mailing servers" and have now sent me a key.

I'm still tempted to go and buy a boxed license from PC World or similar as a one-off investment to be 100% sure what I have but at least I have options now.

- Julian

[Infrasonic]

Be aware that ad/tracker blocking extensions like uBlock Origin and Ghostery can sometimes interfere with live chat facility, web forms, discussion forums et al as they are often third parties.
Ghostery in particular has caused me issues in the past on that front, especially in its early days.
I tend to turn them both off on mission critical sites (banking/ecommerce/utilities et al) to establish that the site works as intended first, then switch them back on later to see if anything critical goes awry. At least that way you have an A/B to know if the site has issues that are independent of anything your end to do with your browser extensions.

[twotwo22]

Just to jump in here....so I buy a Windows license from eBay for £5.99 or whatever, maybe even cheaper. Install windows, type in the license, everything installs fine, registers fine, updates work, stays this way for years.
What are the actual real world ramifications ? Is someone going to come to the house to see the Microsoft hologram stuck on the PC ?

[Itsallaguess]

...so I buy a Windows license from eBay for £5.99 or whatever, maybe even cheaper. Install windows, type in the license, everything installs fine, registers fine, updates work, stays this way for years.

What are the actual real world ramifications ? Is someone going to come to the house to see the Microsoft hologram stuck on the PC ?

I can't see that as being particularly cost-effective, and certainly not something I'd imagine any individual experiencing whilst the large-scale key-sellers were still selling keys....

If we ever see places like Software Geeks shutting down due to receiving a legal tap on the shoulder, then that's the type of initial action I'd imagine Microsoft taking before going anywhere near the downstream destinations...

For clarity, I've used Software Geeks a number of times and have had no issues with either the initial purchase or the subsequent long-term installs. I've no connection other than being a happy customer, and I'd recommend them over an Ebay seller every time....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess