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Spec for the wife's new desktop?

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bungeejumper
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Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262795

Postby bungeejumper » November 7th, 2019, 2:37 pm

Apologies in advance for the intermittently recurring theme, but my poor head is swimming. :shock:

The wife's trusty Acer desktop turns ten years old in January, and this seems like as good a time as any to replace it, what with Black Friday coming up and all. But the welter of choices about processors and suchlike is a bit oppressive.

She does a lot of fancy stuff with Photoshop, but otherwise her needs are quite basic, and I'm not looking to budget more than £400 or so. She isn't fussed about wifi capability, because she'll be cabled directly into the hub. She's managed perfectly well with 500 gigs of hard drive for the last decade, and a terabyte (which seems to be standard these days) would be more than adequate (and I can always bung in a second drive, if not.) She probably ought to have 8 gigs of ram, and I'd be looking for DDR4, but the cost of upgrading a new machine from 4 to 8 is so minimal that it won't be a factor in my choice.

But..... I get properly tangled up when it comes to processors. My own computer has an Intel i5 CPU at 7400, but I have no idea whether she needs anything that chunky. My understanding is that the i3 is still capable of doing most things, but that it has fewer cores, which apparently means it's likely to be slower and less good at multitasking (or something like that?)

The web seems to think that all AMD processors except for the latest Ryzen are a bit pants, and that they use more juice and emit more heat. (Allegedly. Can anybody comment on that?) :lol:

And that it will hardly matter which processor she has if I put in an SSD, or get a machine that already has one. Which, according to this forum, is a doddle. I suppose I'll need to piggyback the drives with a cable if I do it myself? And how vulnerable are SSDs to SDS? (Sudden Death Syndrome.)

You see, neither of us wants to be continually fixing or upgrading stuff. We'd rather her machine was running on traditional lines if it's likely to be more reliable. You see where I'm coming from?

Currently looking at Acers and Dells, which have served us well over the years, but other thoughts very welcome.

Enough. Thanks!

BJ

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262813

Postby Urbandreamer » November 7th, 2019, 3:44 pm

Ok here's my 2p worth.

Yes i3's and i5's are easily good enough for most things. There is however a slight issue with Hyperthreading that efects AMD Ryzen chips less. You may have heard of spectre and meltdown malicious code. The fix needed on Intel chips is to flush the cashe on a context switch. This hurts performance a fair bit. A quick glance at Amazon shows that it's difficult to find a "new" i3 or i5 based PC though.

Modern AMD chips (Ryzen) perform very well against Intel.

If you were into gaming, then I understand that some games really do benefit from a top line Intel chip, which may itself cost more than your budget, but you're not.

Despite that it might be worth looking at "gaming" pc's because of the Photoshop work. Graphics processors are quite useful for visual stuff. The downside, IMHO, is all those LED lights and the fan noise.

Modern SSD's are very reliable and cheap. I would recommend going for a machine with a SSD and adding a second hard disk as providing the best performance/price trade off.

Do you "need" a DVD drive? Modern PC's seldom fit them, or have a bay to fit them. The answer is a USB one. They are inexpensive.

Would you be willing to install your own OS? It's easy and windows keys are cheap on ebay. It gives you a greater range of PC options.

Are you looking to change the monitor? You may need to check that you can plug your monitor into the PC, or buy an adaptor. My son has a cheap display port to VGA addaptor specifically because his graphics card has no VGA connectors.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262868

Postby xeny » November 7th, 2019, 8:08 pm

The most demanding thing you're mentioning is photoshop, and that can be very demanding, typically depending on what resolution and colour depth files you're working on.

Could you share that information with us, and what specification the existing machine is?

As an example, if I were asked to specify a machine for serious photoshop use in a commercial environment, I'd typically be looking at a minimum of a 4 core processor (the "i" labels are a moving target, so it's worth looking at how many cores you're actually buying for a specific processor part no.), 16GB of RAM, a TB or more of local drive, and quite possibly an SSD as a "scratch disk". However that's in the context of dealing with lots of high resolution images under time pressure, and your wife may be less demanding.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262884

Postby vrdiver » November 7th, 2019, 10:32 pm

If you can reuse the keyboard, mouse and monitor, then you could focus the budget on what you need, rather than purchasing duplicate pieces of kit.

I've used pcspecialist a few times (Mrs VRD does video editing). You can find a video editing spec for under £400 delivered - https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/desktop- ... computers/ which would also cope with photoshop (which Mrs VRD also has running).

I tweaked the spec slightly which brought the cost up to £458, by putting the OS on an M2 SSD and adding two 280Gb SSDs (one for applications, one for data) and adding a dedicated graphics card (which would allow two monitors if she wanted a second screen) for more dedicated image processing.

You could have a play with the different options to see the impact on price, and because individual components are specified you can google comparisons to see whether they deliver anything worth the extra cost. You can also save your spec as a quote and post it either over here, or in the pcspecialist forum with a description of your objective so as to get additional feedback. You can also call pcspecialist directly and discuss your objectives and proposed spec for a sanity check with them!

VRD
(no connection with pcspecialist except as a satisfied customer)

xeny
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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262965

Postby xeny » November 8th, 2019, 10:31 am

vrdiver wrote:
I've used pcspecialist a few times (Mrs VRD does video editing). You can find a video editing spec for under £400 delivered - https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/desktop- ... computers/ which would also cope with photoshop (which Mrs VRD also has running).

I tweaked the spec slightly which brought the cost up to £458, by putting the OS on an M2 SSD and adding two 280Gb SSDs (one for applications, one for data) and adding a dedicated graphics card (which would allow two monitors if she wanted a second screen) for more dedicated image processing.


Rather than the bottom end machine, I'd really try hard to get the next model up and skip the GPU if you're tight for cash - the AMD A series APUs are notoriously anaemic for even somewhat CPU intensive tasks, especially in comparison with a recent Intel Quad core, which the next machine up has.

The Asus H310M already supports driving multiple monitors from the CPUs built in graphics (there are DVI, VGA and HDMI ports) , so although you'd lose potential GPU acceleration if your video editing software supports that, I think you'd end up with a lower cost and overall better performing PC.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262970

Postby vrdiver » November 8th, 2019, 10:43 am

xeny wrote:Rather than the bottom end machine, I'd really try hard to get the next model up and skip the GPU if you're tight for cash - the AMD A series APUs are notoriously anaemic for even somewhat CPU intensive tasks, especially in comparison with a recent Intel Quad core, which the next machine up has.

The Asus H310M already supports driving multiple monitors from the CPUs built in graphics (there are DVI, VGA and HDMI ports) , so although you'd lose potential GPU acceleration if your video editing software supports that, I think you'd end up with a lower cost and overall better performing PC.

Good point. Especially as it's relatively easy to add a graphics card later if desired, whereas the motherboard is a much bigger upgrade hassle.

(For the OP's wife, processing photographs, absolute speed isn't the same issue as for the video editor, but the point is still valid.)

VRD

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#262975

Postby xeny » November 8th, 2019, 11:09 am

vrdiver wrote:(For the OP's wife, processing photographs, absolute speed isn't the same issue as for the video editor, but the point is still valid.)

VRD


Performance requirements for working with photos can be deceptive, depending on what you're doing - I'm currently trying to review tens of thousands of 24 megapixel images - it's triggered upgrades to server RAM , server drives (to SSDs) as well as workstation CPU, simply so I can load and render 10MB .jpgs a little faster.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#263072

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » November 8th, 2019, 6:45 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Apologies in advance for the intermittently recurring theme, but my poor head is swimming. :shock:

The wife's trusty Acer desktop turns ten years old in January, and this seems like as good a time as any to replace it, what with Black Friday coming up and all. But the welter of choices about processors and suchlike is a bit oppressive.

She does a lot of fancy stuff with Photoshop, but otherwise her needs are quite basic, and I'm not looking to budget more than £400 or so. She isn't fussed about wifi capability, because she'll be cabled directly into the hub. She's managed perfectly well with 500 gigs of hard drive for the last decade, and a terabyte (which seems to be standard these days) would be more than adequate (and I can always bung in a second drive, if not.) She probably ought to have 8 gigs of ram, and I'd be looking for DDR4, but the cost of upgrading a new machine from 4 to 8 is so minimal that it won't be a factor in my choice.

But..... I get properly tangled up when it comes to processors. My own computer has an Intel i5 CPU at 7400, but I have no idea whether she needs anything that chunky. My understanding is that the i3 is still capable of doing most things, but that it has fewer cores, which apparently means it's likely to be slower and less good at multitasking (or something like that?)

The web seems to think that all AMD processors except for the latest Ryzen are a bit pants, and that they use more juice and emit more heat. (Allegedly. Can anybody comment on that?) :lol:

And that it will hardly matter which processor she has if I put in an SSD, or get a machine that already has one. Which, according to this forum, is a doddle. I suppose I'll need to piggyback the drives with a cable if I do it myself? And how vulnerable are SSDs to SDS? (Sudden Death Syndrome.)

You see, neither of us wants to be continually fixing or upgrading stuff. We'd rather her machine was running on traditional lines if it's likely to be more reliable. You see where I'm coming from?

Currently looking at Acers and Dells, which have served us well over the years, but other thoughts very welcome.

Enough. Thanks!

BJ

Requirements to run Photoshop

  1. 1.6GHz with SSE2 support
  2. 64-bit version MS Windows 10
  3. 4GB Ram (8MB recommended)
  4. 6.5GB disk space
  5. 1280 x 800 resolution (at 100% scale factor)
  6. MS DirectX9 or 10
Budget

£400

Options
AMD Ryzen 5 Quadcore


  • https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/315_3226_30328_xx_ba00012893-bv00311092-ba00012871-bv00311074-ba00002916-bv00311044-ba00012875-bv00311086/1_20/price-asc/299-499-criteria.html
Intel i5 Quadcore

  • https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/315_3226_30328_xx_ba00012893-bv00311092-ba00012871-bv00311064-ba00002916-bv00311044-ba00012875-bv00311086/1_20/price-asc/299-499-criteria.html
Caveat

I'm not suggesting you shop at Curry's. But I've just used their website as a starter for ten to look at options available for the budget available. I purchased a new laptop last year in a "December Sale". It was end of line, but was good value for money. I needed more speed, power and ram. Which I managed to get. It may be worth waiting for the same time of year as there may be similar "end of line" opportunities?

AiY

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#263142

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » November 9th, 2019, 3:25 am

Exactly. Around four years ago, I spotted an "opened box" but new ASUS laptop in John Lewis just after New Year for £399. Intel i7 CPU, 8gb RAM, 1Tb HDD etc.... After around two years of ownership I fitted a Crucial 1Tb SSD in place of the 1Tb HDD and that transformed the machine to a higher level of performance instantly. Today, I am still very happily using the laptop to write this on. Probably the best electronics buy of my life.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#263160

Postby Howard » November 9th, 2019, 9:47 am

The OP is asking about a desktop not a laptop.

I have no technical experience but have used a couple of laptops with i3 chips and found them painfully slower than my Medion desktop, bought for less than £400 from Asda six or seven years ago.

If you are used to a desktop, I would not recommend changing to a laptop which surely has made compromises to reduce size? From my experience a desktop with a SSD drive would be the best choice.

However, if portability is important, a Chromebook is the fastest machine I have ever used, but probably not ideal for editing photos?

regards

Howard

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#263821

Postby PrincessB » November 12th, 2019, 8:47 pm

You see, neither of us wants to be continually fixing or upgrading stuff. We'd rather her machine was running on traditional lines if it's likely to be more reliable. You see where I'm coming from?


My recommendation is to start with the size of the case and work sideways from there.

I would consider a case designed to fit a micro ATX motherboard to be the largest you'd want for your needs. Something this size has sufficient space for bigger fans to keep everything whisper quiet (or silent, depending on your requirements) You'll have space for a DVD drive if you require one and if you do need to add a hard drive or upgrade the memory, you've got the space to move about.

Smaller cases are available, from slimline units about the size of a games console to tiny book sized units that are small enough to bolt onto the back of the display.

You may find that by specifying a smaller case, the price level goes upwards, smaller always being more expensive. You'll also find that when you look at full sized units (To me this is Micro ATX rather than some kind of monster tower the size of a suitcase) they tend to be specified for the gamer market and specify expensive components and lots of lights, clear case sides and that sort of tat the grown ups don't want.

£400 is a bit of a push for a complete build done properly. The £ to $ exchange rate has taken us back to the good old days, where a dollar is equal to a pound and prices reflect this. I know you're not planning to build the machine, but Windows 10 costs a big chunk of your budget, so someones going to have to pay for it.

What you might be looking at as a minimum specification could start with:

Processor - AMD do a quirky little unit - The 3400G. Odd little chip, quite a quick quad core(Boosts to 4.2GHz) with SMT (one core can act as two some of the time. Intel call it hyperthreading) It has on chip graphics which are relatively powerful (will help with photoshop) £139 mind you.

Dual core processors became too slow a couple of years ago and some of the i3 range (dual core with hyperthreading) don't really keep up to well anymore. Intels numbering conventions have become so bizarre it is a stuggle to keep up with them. They sell both dual and quad core chips as i3s and then you've got to work out the generation. You'll get better value from AMD, but the key to me is seeing that 4.0GHz or higher clock speed and at the very least quad core.

Memory is easy, you'll want 16GB, for a budget machine with no independent graphics card, faster memory does help but as you're not gaming it won't make enough of a difference to be concerned about.

Assume about £60 for memory.

Some of these pre-built computer sellers, use some obsolete components to get to a price point, they also cut a few corners in spec and hope for the best. Of particular note is using conventional hard drives rather than SSD drives, even if they offer an SSD, they would be likely to use the latest generation of not very good, but very cheap SSD drives.

What looks like a half decent 1TB SSD is going to be in the region of £90. This requires research, so see what the drive actually is, or failing that, get something with a hard drive and buy your own SSD.

A decent motherboard will have a newish version of USB (now apparently at version 3.2), I wouldn't panic too much about this, I would panic if they offered such a cheap board it only had USB2.

Essentially, if a company does not specify every single component by brand name and part number, don't bother with them.

You might get better value from one of those companies who build a machine to your exact specifications, it's more work at your end, but to close this off it's worth considering cars.

A car is an amalgam of it's own performance, a mid sized car has a certain engine which is matched to the brakes and tyre size for optimal performance.

A youngsters performance car does some tricks to the engine, puts on the biggest wheels that will fit and forgets the brakes are not up to the task.

A mid range PC should be the Ford Escort of cars, an excellent blend of components each working optimally.

The stuff they sell on well known sites makes me shudder, top of the range processor from a few generations back, coupled with a shonky power supply that is unlikely to last a year unlikely to deliver its massive quote power output. Kids computers.

HTH,

I'd up that budget to £600 if possible,

B.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#263952

Postby bungeejumper » November 13th, 2019, 12:44 pm

PrincessB wrote:£400 is a bit of a push for a complete build done properly. The £ to $ exchange rate has taken us back to the good old days, where a dollar is equal to a pound and prices reflect this. I know you're not planning to build the machine, but Windows 10 costs a big chunk of your budget, so someones going to have to pay for it.

Hi B, and many thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions! It's really helpful to have such an informed view of what's out there. I think I've second-guessed a fair number of your points, but please bear with me. :)

One of the things I learned when buying cars was to try not to fall prey to feature creep. You can always spend another fifty quid (and another fifty, and another fifty!) to gain a 20% increase in thingummy speed, and there comes a point where you have to stop and wonder what it was you were originally trying to achieve? Totally take your point about the Ford Escort!

So, to cut a longish story short, I've decided to bite the bullet and go for an ex-display Acer Aspire XC-885 (small but not micro format) that was selling as "new other" for £237. Sharp intake of breath! With the eighth generation i3 processor (quad core), and the 630 integrated graphics, which I am assured is fine for all but the most dedicated gamers. Well, we'll see about that.....

I've had a look inside and it doesn't look like it's ever been used. All the shop-display stickers on the case are still there, and frankly I'll take a flier on that, since certain other distributors are currently asking upwards of £500 for the same machine. DDR4 memory is currently 4GB, but I am upping it to 16 mb for about fifty quid. Will think about an SSD if it isn't fast enough for the missus's needs, but that decision can wait a while till we see whether it does the job with the better memory. AIUI, the XC-885 with the 8100 processor is marketed as being suitable for video work. Again, we'll see. ;)

Wireless keyboard and mouse in the (original) box are not OEM, so clearly the originals have got lost somewhere, and they're also a bit cheapo TBH. And there are no "Get Started" destructions in the box - which also makes me think this one may have sat in PC World for so long that nobody knows where the bits are any more. But heck, we've got a house full of old peripherals, and the wife's old k+m set-up will transfer nicely to the new machine.

There's no expansion space inside the SFF case for a second HDD, as far as I can see, but I think we can get along with a terabyte, or we'll use an external USB drive for backups. One spare card slot, and a full spare meory slot.

Windows 10 Home is on version 1709, which suggests that a couple of updates might be in order. ;) Best of all, I've managed to find the installation disks for all the wife's favourite apps. I am currently trying to wean her off MS Office 2003 to the more whizzy MS Office 2010. :lol:

Anyway, the next few days will tell. So far, so good. Wish me luck!

BJ

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264006

Postby PrincessB » November 13th, 2019, 3:30 pm

Hi BJ,

"new other" for £237.


That's a fair old machine for the outlay - Well shopped. A quad core Intel at 3.6GHz is going to storm through many tasks and the extra memory will really assist.

An excellent purchase.

Regards,

B.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264009

Postby Urbandreamer » November 13th, 2019, 3:47 pm

bungeejumper wrote:There's no expansion space inside the SFF case for a second HDD, as far as I can see, but I think we can get along with a terabyte, or we'll use an external USB drive for backups. One spare card slot, and a full spare meory slot.

BJ


I believe that it has a "M.2" slot. You can get SSD's that fit and can actually be faster than SSD's plugged into a Hard disk cable. Alternatively you can fit a "M.2" card with Optane memory. Intel claims that provides a 28% performance boost, with the correct driver.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264022

Postby bungeejumper » November 13th, 2019, 5:31 pm

PrincessB wrote:That's a fair old machine for the outlay - Well shopped. A quad core Intel at 3.6GHz is going to storm through many tasks and the extra memory will really assist.

An excellent purchase.

Thanks! Well, so far, so good. It's loaded all the software, and it's updated to Windows 1903, so now it's really just a matter of getting the data files copied over ,and copying the desktop shortcuts and favourites and splash screens so that it all looks the way the memsahib likes it. Very quiet running, which is nice. Possibly the slightest hint of a loose bit of plastic on the DVD drive cover, but I reckon that'll take all of fifteen seconds to superglue.

Memory chips are arriving from Crucial tomorrow, so I'll be able to give it a bit of a blast. Life is good. :D

BJ

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264025

Postby bungeejumper » November 13th, 2019, 5:48 pm

Urbandreamer wrote:I believe that it has a "M.2" slot. You can get SSD's that fit and can actually be faster than SSD's plugged into a Hard disk cable. Alternatively you can fit a "M.2" card with Optane memory. Intel claims that provides a 28% performance boost, with the correct driver.

Oh, my word, how do they do that for the money? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Western-Digi ... 3373820639 . Or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LITE-ON-128G ... 3605130865. Hmmm, this merits a bit more research. Thanks!

BJ

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264043

Postby xeny » November 13th, 2019, 8:17 pm

bungeejumper wrote:So, to cut a longish story short, I've decided to bite the bullet and go for an ex-display Acer Aspire XC-885 (small but not micro format) that was selling as "new other" for £237.


That's a good buy indeed - who was the retailer? - I want to make sure I don't own them.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264124

Postby bungeejumper » November 14th, 2019, 8:23 am

xeny wrote:That's a good buy indeed - who was the retailer? - I want to make sure I don't own them.

LOL, I don't think they're public companies. Small-time operators who go to the trade auctions and pick up ex-demo and end-of-line stuff - computers, kitchen equipment, maybe a sofa or two. :) And then sell it on. This one in London was called PRC Distribution (www.ebay.co.uk/str/prcdistribution), but I got my ex-demo i5 Dell last year for £199 from a similar outfit in Birmingham, and that one came with all peripherals still sealed in their bags, and was also perfect and apparently unused.

As long as the Ebay scores are good enough and the prices are OK, I'm generally happy with the risk. Especially since Ebay does have some money back guarantees if things aren't right. Trust me, Rodney. ;)

BJ

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264132

Postby Urbandreamer » November 14th, 2019, 8:47 am

bungeejumper wrote:
xeny wrote:That's a good buy indeed - who was the retailer? - I want to make sure I don't own them.

LOL, I don't think they're public companies. Small-time operators who go to the trade auctions and pick up ex-demo and end-of-line stuff - computers, kitchen equipment, maybe a sofa or two. :) And then sell it on. ...
As long as the Ebay scores are good enough and the prices are OK, I'm generally happy with the risk. Especially since Ebay does have some money back guarantees if things aren't right. Trust me, Rodney. ;)

BJ


I have bought a few things off CCLcomputers (the first ebay link) in the past. Great service and I've been very happy with what the sold me. They guarenteed a couple of things that I bought. I don't think that they are that small*, though agree that they are probably a private business. I too am surprised that they are as cheap as they are.

*If you check their ebay feedback they had about 46,000 transactions over the last 12 months, on ebay. Who knows if the CCL computers who trade on Amazon are the same company.

PS, do your research and check the manual on that computer. "M.2" comes in 3 different interfaces, which are not always compatible. Both your links were to SATA devices. Check that your computer is happy with that interface.

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Re: Spec for the wife's new desktop?

#264333

Postby PrincessB » November 14th, 2019, 5:32 pm

So, to cut a longish story short, I've decided to bite the bullet and go for an ex-display Acer Aspire XC-885 (small but not micro format) that was selling as "new other" for £237. Sharp intake of breath! With the eighth generation i3 processor (quad core), and the 630 integrated graphics, which I am assured is fine for all but the most dedicated gamers. Well, we'll see about that.....


You've set a ball rolling here BJ.

On a whim (and after following the link) I've just ordered from the same lot a DELL Inspiron 3470 Intel® Core™ i3 Desktop PC - 1 TB HDD, Black & Silver. Couple of quid more, with shipping about £260.

Very similar spec i3 8100 @ 3.6GHz, 4GB of memory the 1TB hard drive along with Intel 630 integrated graphics and very possibly an M2 slot. I am rather hoping it's got the same or similar motherboard to your machine. Dell used to use use non standard connections and their own motherboards which were not compatible with anything non Dell.

Specification wise it's a bit slim, looks like theres space to pop in a half height graphics card if the 630 onboard graphics don't work very well. That could prove interesting in itself. On paper the 630 graphics offer a performance level of roughly 1/3rd that of the budget Nvidia 750ti in the current machine.

I'm also going to have the memory out and some new stuff dropped in as soon as possible. I've wanted to make the jump to 32GB for a while, current machine runs with 16GB of DDR3, so I needed something newer to accept DDR4. Even if the machine turns out to be a complete waste of money, I'll still have a chunk of DDR4 ready for a new build. I'll go for memory with a higher speed than the rated specification, generally fast memory is happy to go slowly, the reverse is possible but less reliable.

I like the twin USB3.1 sockets along with the SD card reader built in. I also like having a DVD drive, sometimes it's the best way to bypass everything and get a machine up on its feet again.

Hard drive is also going to be interesting. I have always preferred a single larger SSD drive over the small SSD + large spinning drive option. Somewhere in the house I've got a 240GB SSD which will be enough to get the machine up and rolling. I also found an old laptop sized 750GB SSHD in a drawer - These build an 8GB flash memory chip into the main higher capacity drive - By modern standards they feel very slow. The upside is not having to install drivers, they just work and automatically optimise themselves over time, learning the programs that are used most and storing them in cache to accelerate loading times.

Performance is going to be interesting. My i7 equivalent still feels very fluid despite the design dating back to 2012, I'm rather hoping a 2017 low end chip will outperform a 2012 processor once close to the top of the range. Obviously as it arrives, with not much memory and a glacial conventional hard drive, my old machine could be comprared to a Ferrari and the new one a 2CV - the difference is speed can be that huge.

Once tweaked a bit with a few higher performing bits, I think I can reverse the situation. While the absolute performance gain over the old clunker follwing a good fiddling is likely to be maginal, it is still a way to upgrade on a budget and lots of fun.

Regards,

B.


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