The fastest computer I have owned

[Howard]

Success!

I successfully created an up to date Windows 10 ISO DVD using the Media Tool. It booted on the Novatech and the HP. On the HP, I hit <Esc> repeatedly on boot, selected the Boot Menu and then selected hp CDDVDW SH-216AB. I then had to hit any key to confirm the DVD boot, and away it went.

I followed tradition and ignored the instructions. Ubuntu is supposed to secure boot nowadays, so I gave it a go. I put a Xubuntu ISO in the HP's DVD drive and did the same as before, selecting hp CDDVDW SH-216AB as the boot device. I was rewarded with Try Xubuntu. I was able to run Xubuntu from a live DVD with no problems.

The installation hurdle appears to have been surmounted. The next step is to recover the SSD from my old machine and install it in the HP.

Geoff

I think you are taking this thread off-topic into the world of very slow computing!

Since I purchased my second hand computer, it has performed well. I haven't had to do any time-wasting fiddling since the second day I got it, when Office was installed.

Why are you bothering to waste your time messing about with a cheapo computer when you could be using a fast computer to achieve some worthwhile activities?

It's a bit like someone arguing that, instead of buying a good quality second hand car, one should buy an old wreck, put in a dodgy replacement engine etc. Most of us want a trouble-free computer, not something that has to be patched up!

Enjoy your messing about, but please don't suggest that this is fast computing!

regards

Howard

[GeoffF100]

A processor Passmark score of 4248 is not slow. It is fast. It is more than four times the speed of a new entry level machine. I can double processing the speed by installing a used i7 for about £40, but there is not much to be gained from doing that. There are diminishing returns. No mater how fast the processor is, you still have to wait for the website to respond. Splat is fast enough. The existing processor is overkill for LibreOffice tasks. My SSD is as fast as yours.

My machine cost only £49, given that I already had the SSD. It is a fast compact machine, and I am gaining a lot of education from it, without the risk of messing up my main machine. My main machine cost eight times more (four years ago) and is not a lot faster.

[Breelander]

A processor Passmark score of 4248 is not slow. It is fast. It is more than four times the speed of a new entry level machine....

Agreed. An entry level Celeron has a passmark of about 1000. All my machines were bought second hand. My fastest is a laptop with a 6th gen. i7, an SSD and a passmark of 4800 - even this decade-old laptop I'm replying with has a Pentium with a passmark of 1700.

It's a bit like someone arguing that, instead of buying a good quality second hand car, one should buy an old wreck, put in a dodgy replacement engine etc. Most of us want a trouble-free computer, not something that has to be patched up!

It's more like saying why buy a new Vauxhall Corsa when you can get a used BMW Mini Cooper for a lot less...

[GeoffF100]

I have just checked the Secure Boot Configuration. It is:

Legacy Support: Enable
Secure Boot: Disable
Key Management
.Clear Secure Boot Keys: Don't Clear
.Key Ownership: HP Keys
Fast Boot: Disable

I do not think it was like that before. Sometimes these machines are almost too clever. Something seems to have spotted that I was trying to boot Linux alongside Windows and has adjusted the Secure Boot Configuration accordingly. If you read the forums, you get the impression that nothing ever works. Sometimes everything works when it has no right to do so.

Windows still boots. I tried turning off Fast Boot in Windows. That is necessary if you want a dual boot setup. Previously the HP booted very quickly from the HD, but with fast boot disabled it booted much more slowly. The Novatech has an SSD and boots Windows in seconds even without fast boot. Doing a full boot every time is less likely to give trouble, and saves wear on the SSD.

I am not keen on dual boot. It is pain having to select the OS every time I boot. Sooner or later, in my experience, the Windows Boot Loader and Grub start fighting, but that situation may have improved. I also like to separate my work across two machines for security reasons.

[Howard]

A processor Passmark score of 4248 is not slow. It is fast. It is more than four times the speed of a new entry level machine....

Agreed. An entry level Celeron has a passmark of about 1000. All my machines were bought second hand. My fastest is a laptop with a 6th gen. i7, an SSD and a passmark of 4800 - even this decade-old laptop I'm replying with has a Pentium with a passmark of 1700.

It's a bit like someone arguing that, instead of buying a good quality second hand car, one should buy an old wreck, put in a dodgy replacement engine etc. Most of us want a trouble-free computer, not something that has to be patched up!

It's more like saying why buy a new Vauxhall Corsa when you can get a used BMW Mini Cooper for a lot less...

I don't think you have the right analogy . The computer I bought has has the speed of a Ferrari . And Geoff appears to be trying to turn the starting handle on a 30's Austin 10.

The thread was started as a help to someone who might want a plug and play Windows computer. It's been taken over by hobbyists with lots of computer bits, looking for a home!

regards

Howard

[ReformedCharacter]

The thread was started as a help to someone who might want a plug and play Windows computer. It's been taken over by hobbyists with lots of computer bits, looking for a home!

regards

Howard

Can't disagree that it's gone off-topic but I don't think it's accurate or kind to describe some of the contributors as 'hobbyists', especially since so much time and expertise is generously given

RC

[GeoffF100]

I don't think you have the right analogy . The computer I bought has has the speed of a Ferrari . And Geoff appears to be trying to turn the starting handle on a 30's Austin 10.

You have not seen it working, and do not seem to believe the benchmarks. My Porsche is not as fast as your Ferrari, but the speed limit is the same for both of us, and I get there just as quickly. After a bit of tweaking, my Porsche can be as fast as your Ferrari, and cheaper. If I want to go faster, I have already got a Porsche Turbo anyway.

[PrincessB]

Passmark?

I had a fish about Internet and came up with Passmark version 8.

Is that the one we are using for comparatives?

I thought we were doing full system, so I ran that and thought 4107 seemed a bit on the low side.

I then looked at the posts and did CPU only and the result is a more pleasing 9041.

For those with a full sized system and the space for a graphics card, E-bay (other sites exist) are almost giving away the older V2 and V3 Xeon processors - Not exactly pennies, but less than a round in a Surrey Pub.

If you don't mind getting down and dirty inside your machine, Windows will not complain about a processor swap and the addition of a lower end graphics card. For less effort, a second hand i7 with on chip graphics might be a better choice as you won't need a graphics card and you are more likely to have a compatible motherboard.

Might be the best £50 you spend, accepting that you'll also want some cleaning wipes, some nano diamond thermal compound and the skills to get the heatsink off and back on again. While you're in there, buy some more memory and an SSD and you should be good for the next couple of years.

B.

[Breelander]

Passmark?
I had a fish about Internet and came up with Passmark version 8.
Is that the one we are using for comparatives?

Yes, but we don't actually run the tests, we look up the CPU passmark in their table of existing results (or at least I do). It's a useful source for assessing the potential of a CPU you are thinking of getting. My slowest machine has an Intel Atom N2600 and my fastest an i7-6600U (passmark 527 vs 4801).

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/In ... /613vs2608

[GeoffF100]

There are Passmark scores for graphics too. Passmark is helpful to tell us quickly whether we have a good 'un or a bad 'un, because it just gives one number. Most of us do not want to know the gory details of all the CPU or graphics benchmarks.

My new Number 2 machine could certainly do with an SSD. An upgrade to an i5 would cost about £20, and make the machine as fast as my Number 1 machine (i5 4460). An upgrade to an i7 would make it faster than my Number 1 machine and cost about £40. Doubling the memory to 8 GB would cost £11. Number 1 machine has 8 GB, but I doubt whether I have ever used more than 4 GB. The graphics performance of both machines is good enough for home office, and general messing about. I am not a gamer.

[Howard]

Update for any interested reader.

The computer is working well and I'm delighted with its performance. I've tweaked some Word and Excel settings but have not needed to do anything else apart from using it every day. In the last week it's been used for family and friends' video conferencing and luckily I had a modest 10+ year old logitech camera/microphone which was literally "plug and play".

The homescreen has only four icons on it including the recycle bin, so it's wonderfully simple with no bloatware.

Windows 10 has updated a couple of times I think, but as these updates take about two or three minutes, they haven't delayed anything.

So I'm still delighted with the recycled hardware and modestly priced 2019 MS office software. (See initial post for details).

regards

Howard

[GeoffF100]

I am still very pleased with my £49 HP 4300 SFF with a 3rd Generation Core i3-3220 3.30 GHz processor. My only hardware upgrade so far has been replacing the 500 GB HDD with a 120 GB SSD that I already had. Web browsing is very fast with Xubuntu Linux and Google Chrome.

Here is new computer for £189.98:

https://www.ebuyer.com/911892-xenta-pen ... c-xr-d5047

The 8th Generation Pentium G5400 has almost exactly the same Passmark score as Howard's used 4th Generation i5, but the graphics and memory will be faster, and the power consumption will be lower. The computer does not come with an OS installed, but Linux is free. You can probably cut the cost a little or up the spec a little for the same price with a self build.

Old computers can be very cheap, but they have to be when modern hardware is so cheap.

[GeoffF100]

I expect that the reason why the Xenta computer is cheap for a ready assembled new computer (apart from the lack of OS) is that the current Intel processors are 10th generation, so 8th Generation is old technology. 8th Generation is modern compared with the two antique HP machines, which are nonetheless plenty fast enough for basic home office tasks.

[AF62]

Seems to be some pretty cheap PCs on Dell Refurbished at the moment if you use the code DESKTOP35 which takes 35% off the listed price.

https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/desktop-computers

[MyNameIsUrl]

Seems to be some pretty cheap PCs on Dell Refurbished at the moment if you use the code DESKTOP35 which takes 35% off the listed price.

https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/desktop-computers

These seem a very good spec for the price - but is 64-bit Windows 10 Pro likely to be an issue? Presumably it works with a retail version of MS Office Home?

[xeny]

Seems to be some pretty cheap PCs on Dell Refurbished at the moment if you use the code DESKTOP35 which takes 35% off the listed price.

https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/desktop-computers

These seem a very good spec for the price - but is 64-bit Windows 10 Pro likely to be an issue? Presumably it works with a retail version of MS Office Home?

Should be fine - all that is different is added features - remote desktop server, ability to join a windows domain, and support for bitlocker. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions

[Infrasonic]

Seems to be some pretty cheap PCs on Dell Refurbished at the moment if you use the code DESKTOP35 which takes 35% off the listed price.

https://www.dellrefurbished.co.uk/desktop-computers

These seem a very good spec for the price - but is 64-bit Windows 10 Pro likely to be an issue? Presumably it works with a retail version of MS Office Home?

Should be fine - all that is different is added features - remote desktop server, ability to join a windows domain, and support for bitlocker. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions

Pro is worth having for the VM (Hyper-V) capability alone as well as the other additional options like group policy which give far more settings flexibility.

[Breelander]

Pro is worth having for the VM (Hyper-V) capability alone as well as the other additional options like group policy which give far more settings flexibility.

Those two are top of my list for having Pro, especially Hyper-V.

[ReformedCharacter]

Those two are top of my list for having Pro, especially Hyper-V.

As the happy owner of a newish PC and Windows 10, can I ask why Hyper-V instead of VirtualBox or VMWare?

RC

[Breelander]

Those two are top of my list for having Pro, especially Hyper-V.

As the happy owner of a newish PC and Windows 10, can I ask why Hyper-V instead of VirtualBox or VMWare?

RC

a) Hyper-V is from Microsoft so theoretically should be the most compatible with the host machine's Windows 10.
b) only with Hyper-V can you boot a Macrium Reflect image as a virtual machine: https://www.macrium.com/viboot
c) unlike VMWare/Virtualbox Hyper-V is a Type 1 Hypervisor, the others are Type 2. The only significant advantage of a Type 2 Hypervisor is that it will run on W10 Home.

One of the most significant differences is that a Type 1 Hypervisor doesn't require you to be signed in for it to continue running. In fact, if you configure the Hyper-V VM to start at boot then it doesn't even need anyone signed in. One use for this is on a VM where you only ever contact it remotely. Should the machine reboot from (say) the power being lost, then the VM will be running again after it restarts, even though there's no one there to sign in.

More on Type 1 vs Type 2 here: https://www.tenforums.com/virtualizatio ... e-2-a.html