SSD Upgrade Issues

[GeoffF100]

Having successfuuly doubled the processing speed and RAM on my old PC, I am considering adding an SSD. On sites like the BBC, web pages load almost instantly using Firefox, but the boot time is about 40 seconds and Firefox takes about 10 seconds to load. The SATA II hard drive appears to be the main bottle neck.

There is not much space inside the PC. The hard drive is mounted transversely beneath the DVD drive and is not easily accessible. I do not need to remove that drive, however. Another 240 GB of storage space could come in handy. The obvious place to put an SSD is in the empty floppy disc bay.

Here is the front of the PC, with the top and plastic front panel removed:

https://imgur.com/a/NR6ZFJr

Here is a close up of the floppy disc bay:

https://imgur.com/a/0cOhm2T

The drive bays, switch and socket assembly at the front of the PC can be lifted out. Here is a shot of the underneath of the floppy bay:

https://imgur.com/a/snbNUEy

Unfortunately, this assembly cannot be lifted out without some serious removal of cable ties and unplugging. The cables to the front sockets, in particular, are solidly held down by other cables.

The four SATA II sockets are just about visible in this shot:

https://imgur.com/a/4FuCM8j

I expect that I would re-plug the two SATA data cables that are connected in the back two SATA sockets in the front two SATA sockets to free the more accessible to sockets. The shot also shows what appears to be a Molex power plug and a floppy power plug. In addition to the SSD, I would need another SATA data cable, and a Molex to SATA adaptor.

This SSD mounting kit is said to be compatible with a floppy disc bay, in one of the answered questions:

https://www.cclonline.com/product/92844 ... t/ACC0455/

It looks as though it might be possible to fix it in my floppy disc bay, but that would be tricky without some serious disassembly. It might be better to bodge here. Perhaps I can use Blu Tack or duct tape technology here., or perhaps I can make a cradle out of a couple of pieces of scrap wood and wedge it in.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions?

Another possible project would be to transfer this PC into a less cramped case. The motherboard is mATX. How do I find a case that provides easy access, and makes upgrading easy?

[Itsallaguess]

It might be better to bodge here.

Perhaps I can use Blu Tack or duct tape technology here, or perhaps I can make a cradle out of a couple of pieces of scrap wood and wedge it in.

It looks like you've got access to a nice, neat space for the SSD. That should give you plenty of good options for fixing it in yourself.

How it finally gets secured is an issue for a later time, but some sort of neat bodge will be the best way to go.

SSD's are very light, and have no moving parts, so by the time you form both the power and data cables appropriately, then it's just going to be a case of making sure it's not going to slide about anywhere, causing a risk of cable-disconnection. That can be done cheaply and easily with a bit of tape or velvro, or similar.

Not sure I'd go so far as using blu-tak (I have got some standards you know...) as I'd be worried about any other heat build-up in the case melting the blu-tak and becoming useless or even worse, perhaps flowing somewhere internally that it shouldn't...

For now though, I'd concentrate on getting the SSD and transferring your current boot-build onto it. You can then prove the swap-out improves your overall performance, as I highly suspect it will, and then look to secure it as a separate task.

I've bodged most of my SSD installs, and they are going strong without any issues. they've usually involved some lateral thinking at times, depending on the available spaces, fixing points, and orientations, but there's not been a need to buy any special bracketry yet...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Infrasonic]

When I upgraded my sisters PC I ran into similar case space problems, it was a slimline micro ATX case with vertically mounted DVD/HDD drives. No space at all for anything else.

I just mounted the SSD on the floor of the case in the end using the sticky backed foam gasket thingy that had been supplied with the external USB case. Blu tack or tape would do the same job.
SSD's weigh next to nothing so there's little chance of it being damaged. The SATA ports tend to be nearby anyway so short leads can be used.

[Infrasonic]

Watch out for locking OEM SATA leads too, that one caught me out initially as well...

[GeoffF100]

Yes, that appears to be right. Bodging appears to be the way to go. Initially, with the machine sitting flat on a desk, I do not really have a problem. As far as software installation is concerned, simply formatting the existing hard drive from "Try Lubuntu" and installing Lubuntu on the SSD will probably do the trick. There is nothing on the machine that I cannot scrub.

What about the other question? What is the best type of case for a cheap low spec new build? These are the cases my local PC shop uses in their economy builds:

https://www.cclonline.com/pc/home-pcs/n ... ustomiser/

The default Aero Cool case gets good reviews, but it is a Mini Tower case, which may give the same problems that I am having with the antique case. I looked at the reviews for the cheapest case, which is Mid Tower case, but they were not as good.

[Itsallaguess]

What is the best type of case for a cheap low spec new build? These are the cases my local PC shop uses in their economy builds:

I'm not up to speed on normal cases nowadays - the last PC chassis that I bought was an AS-Rock DeskMini 110, which packs enough into a 155mm x 155mm x 80mm box to do more than I'll ever need it for.

I've got it mounted on the back of my monitor -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rock-Black-110 ... B01GSWJ3JM

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10404/as ... -pc-review

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7744/ ... index.html

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[GeoffF100]

That case is seriously small and not cheap. The CCL default case costs £25 from CCL. There are Amazon reviews here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aerocool-QC-20 ... B00PK0JR9K

It seems to get a better write up than the other cases that CCL uses for their budget PCs. One of the Amazon Q&As said that it will not house a DVD/CD drive, but CCL includes them in their builds.

[Itsallaguess]

That case is seriously small and not cheap. The CCL default case costs £25 from CCL.

If it wasn't initially clear, the AS Rock DeskMini that I linked to earlier was a complete chassis, and so included the case, power-supply, and motherboard, so it's not 'just' the small case that's purchased.

Of course a CPU, SSD, and also memory then still needs to be purchased, but this gives some good flexibility still, and yet can deliver a serious machine in terms of computing-power, all contained in a tiny, and very quiet, case.

I agree that cheaper cases are available, but I thought I'd raise the DeskMini just as an indication that there are options available nowadays in the micro-market that simply weren't around a few years ago, and in terms of high-performance in such a small, quiet box, they are really difficult to beat after owning my fair share of larger boxes over the years.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[GeoffF100]

I had not noticed that you get a power supply too. I was considering the merits of transferring my existing components to a new box. There is no real reason to do that, apart from education and possibly gaining more space to work in. I might have problems with the front panel headers in the new box not being compatible with the old motherboard, so I could have problems.

I have successfully moved the SATA connector for the existing hard drive to socket 2, leaving the more accessible socket 0 available.

[GeoffF100]

Posted a reply on the wrong thread by mistake:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=12560&start=20

[Itsallaguess]

Posted a reply on the wrong thread by mistake

There's a 13th January 2017 user-review on the Amazon DeskMini 110 page that says the following -

My ASRock DeskMini 110 is currently running Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, and everything just worked out of the box.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rock-Black-110 ... filter-bar

Not sure if this helps at all, but just thought I'd mention it in case you'd not seen that particular review.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[GeoffF100]

If you want a low cost mighty midget, this appears to be a good choice:

https://www.cclonline.com/product/25056 ... r/BRB0516/

Ubuntu is certifying these NUCs, but is little behind with the boxes and the Ubuntu version:

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/06/int ... -certified

Nonetheless, the latest box appears to work with Ubuntu 18.04:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdNvD0QfJY

[twotwo22]

Have you ordered an SSD yet ? I went SSD in my laptop and desktop. Both windows 7, made a phenomenal difference to both.
Re Firefox, I used that for years but now used Chrome, it is MUCH faster and less clonkier.

[GeoffF100]

I can collect the SSD and cabling from stock just down the road. I have been looking at Gparted to make my system drive a data drive, which was my final issue. I am ready to roll, when I have the time. The cost is about £27.50, which is more than the processor box cost me, but I have spent about £15 upgrading it.

I tested Firefox Quantum, Google Chrome and Opera on Lubuntu 17.10 (I am now on 18.04), before I upgraded the memory and processor. Firefox was the fastest. Firefox loads pages almost instantly on sites like the BBC, after my recent hardware upgrade. Scrolling (with the mouse wheel) is slow (but very smooth) on my SVGA screen. I have been looking at possible fixes for that.

Firefox loads in 10 seconds the first time after rebooting. If I close it and reopen it, it comes back almost immediately. I expect that is because the disk records have been cached.

Here are some suggestions for speeding up Firefox Quantum:

https://www.maketecheasier.com/speed-up-firefox/

Here is someone who appears to have loaded Ubuntu on the Gigabyte Brix with no problems:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tylerstech/com ... f=readnext

That is a cheap little box. It does not consume much power, but the processor is no faster than the Core 2 Duo E6700 that I now have in my playing around machine.

[Itsallaguess]

Here is someone who appears to have loaded Ubuntu on the Gigabyte Brix with no problems:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tylerstech/com ... f=readnext

That is a cheap little box. It does not consume much power, but the processor is no faster than the Core 2 Duo E6700 that I now have in my playing around machine.

The main deciding factor that led me to buy the AS-Rock DeskMini 110 instead of the many other NUC-type boxes that were around at the time, was the fact that the DeskMini motherboard was capable of taking desktop CPU's, rather than the more widespread NUC-type alternatives, where the only CPU options for the other micro-boxes that were available then was to install the cheaper, but much less powerful laptop-range of CPU's.

This was a deal-clincher for me, and I opted to install a desktop i5 CPU in my DeskMini, with an option in the future to upgrade to an i7 if I ever wanted to.

As it happens, the i5 does everything I need it to, and more, and at a noise-level that's simply amazing compared to my previous XPC shuttle, which was relatively quiet even then.

Just something to be aware of, if CPU power is important to you either now or in the future, or if potential upgrade paths are also something you want to investigate.

It might be the case now that more NUC-type micro-boxes can take the more powerful CPU's, but this certainly wasn''t the case when I bought mine, and this was the primary reason that I opted for the DeskMini at that point.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[BobbyD]

It looks as though it might be possible to fix it in my floppy disc bay, but that would be tricky without some serious disassembly. It might be better to bodge here. Perhaps I can use Blu Tack or duct tape technology here., or perhaps I can make a cradle out of a couple of pieces of scrap wood and wedge it in.

SSD's are light and the cable is normally enough to hold them in a bay. If you aren't going to move the machine around you probably wouldn't have any problem without a fixing, but a bit of sticky back velcro might add peace of mind.

Another possible project would be to transfer this PC into a less cramped case. The motherboard is mATX. How do I find a case that provides easy access, and makes upgrading easy?

With cases in my experience you get what you pay for. The best solution I ever found for access was this:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7600/lia ... ut-miniitx

which is a great case but it's mitx not matx.

[GeoffF100]

I have installed the 120 GB SSD and installed Lubuntu 18.04 on it. Boot time (from departure of the BIOS splash screen to the appearance of the desktop) has gone down from 40 seconds to 20 seconds. The time to load Firefox has gone down from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. That is a big improvement, but less than I had hoped, even with SATA II.

The SSD data cable runs over a thick bunch of cables held together with cable ties, and back again. I could fix them to that bunch of cables with a cable tie, which would hold the SSD in place reasonably well, provided the machine is moved about carefully. Cable ties are expensive from CCL, but cheap from Screwfix.

I had problems installing Lubuntu 18.04 from a DVD that i had successfully used several times before before. "Try Lubuntu" failed twice in the same way. It could not find CUPS or a graphics adapter, and went into an infinite wait state, for something that never happened. I thought it might be the DVD, so I tried Ubuntu 14.04. No problems. I rebooted with the Lubuntu 18.04 DVD, did a disk integrity check. Again, no problems. I had another go with "Try Lubuntu", and it worked this time.

The next job is to configure the old hard 250 GB hard drive as a data drive. I should be able to do that by live booting Ubuntu 14.04, and using Gparted.

[formoverfunction]

It's chats like this that remind me how easy it is living with a Mac Lol.

I use a Macbook Pro, PPC, Pi and tails occasionaly.

The PPC celebrated it's 20th birthay last year and I'm still running it with the original configuration with the addition of BeOs (and Yellow Dog Linux).

Still good for ripping, email and txt browsing.

Good luck with you configuration!

[Infrasonic]

I have installed the 120 GB SSD and installed Lubuntu 18.04 on it. Boot time (from departure of the BIOS splash screen to the appearance of the desktop) has gone down from 40 seconds to 20 seconds. The time to load Firefox has gone down from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. That is a big improvement, but less than I had hoped, even with SATA II.

Purely a guess but I'd imagine the bottleneck to performance here is the CPU, rather than the SSD.
4K file random performance won't saturate SATA 11 on boot, even the wizzy new PCIe NVMe SSD's aren't that fast on 4k (although the latency is a lot lower.)
Have you messed with the swap file size at all? That might help if RAM is limited.

[GeoffF100]

Doubling the performance of the CPU (Pentium for Core 2 Duo) did not measurably affect the boot time or the time to load Firefox. I believe that the SATA II drive that I have is a replacement for the original one, and is probably a good drive. The Windows Experience Index gave for the transfer rate for that drive a higher rating than anything else on my PC (before the CPU upgrade). I have not touched the swap parameters. Even with Firefox loaded I have most of my 2 GB RAM available according to free -m. I have tried reducing swappiness in the past, but it did not make any difference, even when I only had 1 GB RAM. You have to do a lot with Lubuntu to run out of RAM, even when you only have 1 GB.

5 seconds for loading Firefox is not bad. I looked at a Youtube review of Linux Mint last night. 5 seconds was thought to be good for loading Firefox on a modern machine. If I close Firefox and relaunch, it comes back quicker, because the disk records have been cached. I just timed my Windows 10 i5 4460 with an SSD and 8 GB of RAM loading IE. It took just under 2 seconds. That system cost ten times as much as the ten year old.