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New laptop thoughts

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kiloran
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New laptop thoughts

#180949

Postby kiloran » November 16th, 2018, 8:04 pm

Well, my main laptop has gone to meet its maker, which is pretty good timing with black friday deals available. I'd like to get a replacement in the next few days.

There's a frightening choice out there. I'm not price constrained, but don't need anything outrageously powerful, just decent value.
I think I want:
  1. 14-15in screen. I think 17in is just a bit overpowering size-wise
  2. IPS screen (or SVA)
  3. i5 processor, maybe i7
  4. 8GB ram, though I'd be happy with 4GB and upgrade
  5. 500GB hard drive (if HDD, I'd replace with an existing SSD)
  6. Quiet!! I don't like a noisy fan. More importantly, my wife doesn't!

My current thoughts (in no particular order) are:
  1. Lenovo Ideapad
  2. HP Pavilion
  3. Asus Zenbook
  4. Acer Aspire 5
  5. Dell Inspiron

Any thoughts (such as don't touch with a bargepole) on the above list? Especially fan noise, which is not often reported in reviews.

These HP Pavilions looks like good candidates right now (if I swap out the HDD/SSD):
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing ... 5-pdt.html
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing ... 5-pdt.html

--kiloran

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#180976

Postby stewamax » November 16th, 2018, 9:50 pm

Built-in DVD drive or not? If not, try the 14in screen ASUS Zenbook UX410UA but specify/add a larger SSD and more RAM.
But if you need a 500GB SSD it might be a tad expensive.
Whatever you select, do go for a full HD (1920 x 1080) screen.

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#180981

Postby Breelander » November 16th, 2018, 10:14 pm

kiloran wrote:Any thoughts ... on the above list?


All good makes, but my preference is for Dell. Not for performance, but just the sheer comprehensive support available. Not many OEMs provide a fully illustrated Service Manual for dismantling every part of their laptops. Here's one from Dell for an Inspiron:

https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/uk ... lang=en-us

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#180984

Postby gryffron » November 16th, 2018, 10:37 pm

I HATE my HPs touchpad. It has no mouse buttons. So you have to learn an entire new set of commands to do right click, drag and drop etc. yeuch! Give me some mouse buttons! Don't know what other makes do?

Edit: just looked at your pics. Looks like your model does have mouse buttons.

Gryff

Dod101
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Re: New laptop thoughts

#180985

Postby Dod101 » November 16th, 2018, 10:47 pm

Breelander wrote:
kiloran wrote:Any thoughts ... on the above list?


All good makes, but my preference is for Dell. Not for performance, but just the sheer comprehensive support available. Not many OEMs provide a fully illustrated Service Manual for dismantling every part of their laptops. Here's one from Dell for an Inspiron:

https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/uk ... lang=en-us


Do I want to know that? Answer, definitely not. Performance is more important and of course reliability. But I cannot comment although I have an HP Envy which I must say is very good. Cost about £1000 I think. Don't quite remember but it has a 500 SSD and 1000 HDD. Does that make sense? I think although I am not sure it has an i5 processor.

Most on these Boards are not average users. I am and know nothing about it.

Dod

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181022

Postby bungeejumper » November 17th, 2018, 9:06 am

My Acer doesn't have mouse buttons on the touchpad, and it's taken me a long time to get properly used to the way that the bottom-right-and-left pressy bits work. It gets quite a bit more complicated when you want to hold and scroll, but don't have anything to hold and scroll with. :evil:

Fortunately, I picked up a mini-mouse with a fully-retractable cable several years ago, and it's proved outstandingly convenient when I'm on the move with the laptop. Similar to this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002MTXL26/ ... B01FABWFWY. Mine was from Trust and has been excellent.

BJ

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181044

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 17th, 2018, 10:59 am

gryffron wrote:I HATE my HPs touchpad. It has no mouse buttons. So you have to learn an entire new set of commands to do right click, drag and drop etc. yeuch! Give me some mouse buttons! Don't know what other makes do?

Edit: just looked at your pics. Looks like your model does have mouse buttons.

Gryff

I had an HP pavilion, whose touchpad was the nicest I've encountered anywhere, by virtue of being textured. And yes, it had buttons.

Overall, that laptop was great value for a very cheap price. The cheapness showed up in a lesser screen quality than the best, and truly useless sound (unless I used headphones). But the OP's currys links appear entirely different.

My strong bargepole is Dell Inspiron. Poor internal construction, with a dodgy internal connection. Most usual symptom was that it would freeze up, needing a hard power-cycle reboot and a flexing of the entire case to revive the connection. And worst of all, utterly contemptuous attitude from Dell's supposed support.

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181105

Postby panamagold » November 17th, 2018, 3:50 pm

If you are not averse to a refurb at a keen price This site (rec'd on here about 12 months ago) has a good selection of Lenovo's with spec's meeting your requirements.

Dod101
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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181107

Postby Dod101 » November 17th, 2018, 4:04 pm

bungeejumper wrote:My Acer doesn't have mouse buttons on the touchpad, and it's taken me a long time to get properly used to the way that the bottom-right-and-left pressy bits work. It gets quite a bit more complicated when you want to hold and scroll, but don't have anything to hold and scroll with. :evil:

Fortunately, I picked up a mini-mouse with a fully-retractable cable several years ago, and it's proved outstandingly convenient when I'm on the move with the laptop. Similar to this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002MTXL26/ ... B01FABWFWY. Mine was from Trust and has been excellent.


I do not use my laptop 'on the move'. I find an Ipad much better if I am travelling but I solved the problem of a mouse by buying a wireless mouse with whatever the plug in is called for the laptop. Works perfectly and much preferable to the touchpads which I dislike.

Dod

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181130

Postby gryffron » November 17th, 2018, 6:58 pm

@dod & @UncleE.
Yeah, I have plug in trackball. But there are still some times when you actually want to use a laptop, well, in your lap. I think the clear message from both of us who have tried it is to steer well clear of any machine lacking separate physical mouse buttons. It's a complication you don't need. A cost-cut too far.

Gryff

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181180

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 18th, 2018, 12:17 am

gryffron wrote:@dod & @UncleE.
Yeah, I have plug in trackball. But there are still some times when you actually want to use a laptop, well, in your lap. I think the clear message from both of us who have tried it is to steer well clear of any machine lacking separate physical mouse buttons. It's a complication you don't need. A cost-cut too far.

Gryff

I don't think it's about cost-cutting.

That high-cost, high-fashion brand Apple produces buttonless trackpads - and may well have been first to do so.

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181207

Postby gryffron » November 18th, 2018, 9:53 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:I don't think it's about cost-cutting.
That high-cost, high-fashion brand Apple produces buttonless trackpads - and may well have been first to do so.

You may be right. But IOS runs on a single button mouse. So it should be fine for them. For use with MSWindows it is awful.

Gryff

kiloran
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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181263

Postby kiloran » November 18th, 2018, 4:42 pm

I have a new laptop!

My brain aches from all the research over the past few days. Just WHY is there so much choice? I got to the point where an HP Pavilion was my likely target. I went to Currys yesterday to have a gander at laptops in the flesh, and got even more confused, exacerbated by being interrupted by sales people every few minutes, most of whom were not very knowledgeable.

Did more research last night and went to a different Currys this morning, not expecting to actually buy one but to clarify my thoughts and then probably order online from John Lewis to get a 2-year guarantee. Got accosted by a couple of sales guys, but they were friendly , helpful and knowledgeable, and I walked out with a laptop!

HP Pavilion
15.6in IPS/SVA 1920x1080 non-reflective screen
8GB RAM
256GB M.2 SSD
AMD Ryzen 5 2500U processor
AMD Radeon Vega 8 Graphics
£599 (I was prepared to spend up to £750 for the right machine)

Got home, fired it up and just did enough to be able to stream the England-Croatia match.
Very pleased with it so far. Good screen and the fan is very quiet indeed. The previous laptop did become quite noisy when streaming, blowing all the hot air out the side. Need to do a lot of configuring and installing which will take a few days. I need to decide if I can live with the 250GB SSD or whether to upgrade to 500GB. I think I'll have to upgrade, but I'd factored that into the price.

The only negative I've found so far is the power connector. It plugs in to the RHS and is a 90 degree angled connector so the cable hangs down. With the laptop on my lap, if I move my right knee it hits against the moulded connector, and I'm worried that this slight stress may be a problem over time. I'd much rather have a straight rather than angled connector.
Oh, and the keyboard is a bit unforgiving (as I've just discovered while typing this). Quite a hard landing when I hit a key. I'll probably learn to modify my typing technique over time.

The trackpad does not have separate left/right buttons, the bottom left and right corners provide this click function. Not a problem for me, I normally use a wireless mouse, but I can live with the trackpad for short periods if necessary. I generally dislike trackpads, I did like the red-button trackpoint on a few work IBM Thinkpads. A much better solution.

--kiloran

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181269

Postby Itsallaguess » November 18th, 2018, 5:04 pm

kiloran wrote:
I have a new laptop!


Huzzah!

Bonus points for finding a Curry's with knowledgeable staff in too, although that's bordering on showing off now.....

kiloran wrote:
The only negative I've found so far is the power connector. It plugs in to the RHS and is a 90 degree angled connector so the cable hangs down.

With the laptop on my lap, if I move my right knee it hits against the moulded connector, and I'm worried that this slight stress may be a problem over time. I'd much rather have a straight rather than angled connector.


I can see why this might be more than a little annoying. Does the cable hang down just because the connector wants to naturally rotate that way?

Just wondering if a flexible bit of short plastic stuck to the bottom of the laptop, positioned so that it 'supports' the connector and keeps it 'flat' to the profile of the laptop, might help?

If it only protruded from the side of the laptop enough of a distance to support the underneath of the connector, then it might be a fairly unobtrusive solution if it's the rotation of the connector that you're trying to stop?

Well done on the purchase though - would love to hear a more comprehensive report once you've settled down with it and give it a bit of a run-in...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181270

Postby Breelander » November 18th, 2018, 5:22 pm

kiloran wrote:I have a new laptop!


Congratulations! I hope you'll be very happy together ;)

I went to Currys yesterday to have a gander at laptops in the flesh ... being interrupted by sales people every few minutes, most of whom were not very knowledgeable.


The last time I was in Currys/PCWorld I thought I'd have a look at exactly which build of Windows the OEMs had put on their laptops. While I was delving in the depths of the system on one laptop an assistant came up to me. He very quickly realised I knew more than him, the conversation quickly turning to the benefits for his career of taking the Microsoft Certified Professional exams (which he was studying for).

...went to a different Currys this morning, not expecting to actually buy one but to clarify my thoughts and then probably order online from John Lewis to get a 2-year guarantee...


I bet Currys hate that. :D Yes, I do that too, last time for a replacement Cannon Powershot when my old camera died after many years faithful service. I actually ended up in a physical John Lewis (and bought the Cannon there).

The cameras were next to the laptops, and chatting to the assistant (very helpful, knew their subject well) it seems that not all the 'assistants' on the PC displays were John Lewis employees. Each OEM had their own people placed there to answer the 'in-depth' questions.

Oh, and it turned out that the OEM supplied build was usually 1709, with 1803 being current at that time. So use Winver to check the build on your HP. If it's still being supplied with 1709 then expect to receive a Features Update shortly. There's usually a 30 grace period after first use before windows update will deliver the features update. at a minimum expect to get 1803 delivered after that (maybe even 1809).

kiloran
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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181287

Postby kiloran » November 18th, 2018, 7:10 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
kiloran wrote:
The only negative I've found so far is the power connector. It plugs in to the RHS and is a 90 degree angled connector so the cable hangs down.

With the laptop on my lap, if I move my right knee it hits against the moulded connector, and I'm worried that this slight stress may be a problem over time. I'd much rather have a straight rather than angled connector.


I can see why this might be more than a little annoying. Does the cable hang down just because the connector wants to naturally rotate that way?

Just wondering if a flexible bit of short plastic stuck to the bottom of the laptop, positioned so that it 'supports' the connector and keeps it 'flat' to the profile of the laptop, might help?

If it only protruded from the side of the laptop enough of a distance to support the underneath of the connector, then it might be a fairly unobtrusive solution if it's the rotation of the connector that you're trying to stop?

Itsallaguess

It's maybe an option, but with a shiny new laptop I'd be loath to glue bits to it for the moment.
I'll have a look to see if there are alternative connectors available, or maybe an inline extension. Not a major issue for the short term

--kiloran

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181290

Postby Breelander » November 18th, 2018, 7:25 pm

kiloran wrote:It's maybe an option, but with a shiny new laptop I'd be loath to glue bits to it for the moment...


Blu Tack ;)

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181299

Postby GoSeigen » November 18th, 2018, 8:56 pm

gryffron wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:I don't think it's about cost-cutting.
That high-cost, high-fashion brand Apple produces buttonless trackpads - and may well have been first to do so.

You may be right. But IOS runs on a single button mouse. So it should be fine for them. For use with MSWindows it is awful.

Gryff


Not correct. First, Mac laptops don't run on IOS, they run on a full-featured OS for non-mobile devices. Second, the OS (i.e. OS X) has always had built-in support for two-button pointing devices, it's just that as a matter of principle (too keep the interface simple) Apple supplied a single button as standard with their laptops and desktops. However it has always been possible to access the right click/contextual menu via a modifier key or trackpad gesture even on buttonless trackpads, or indeed to use a separately purchased third-party two-button mouse.


GS

kiloran
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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181346

Postby kiloran » November 19th, 2018, 10:25 am

Breelander wrote:
The last time I was in Currys/PCWorld I thought I'd have a look at exactly which build of Windows the OEMs had put on their laptops. While I was delving in the depths of the system on one laptop an assistant came up to me. He very quickly realised I knew more than him, the conversation quickly turning to the benefits for his career of taking the Microsoft Certified Professional exams (which he was studying for). .

Oh, and it turned out that the OEM supplied build was usually 1709, with 1803 being current at that time. So use Winver to check the build on your HP. If it's still being supplied with 1709 then expect to receive a Features Update shortly. There's usually a 30 grace period after first use before windows update will deliver the features update. at a minimum expect to get 1803 delivered after that (maybe even 1809).

Yes, the laptop had 1709 and it spent close to 4 hours last night installing 1803. A long time was spent "initialising...."

A bit more on Currys....
When I decided to buy, the sales guy checked the stock and they had one. They took an age to find it, which did give me more time to have a play with the display laptop. They finally got back to me with a cardboard box, which had been sealed with brown parcel tape, which didn't look like HP original. I queried it and they said that the laptop had been "set up" and a recovery USB created. It's a busy time of year so they set up machines in odd moments. And the set-up would only cost me £40! I told them that I had no intention of paying £40 for something I didn't want, so asked if they had any in stock elsewhere. They found a store about 5 miles away with two in stock and reserved one.
Went to the second store and the purchase went smoothly, charging me the expected £599.

I got home and started to open the box, and found that the box had been opened and resealed, though much more competently and invisibly using sellotape, and a sticker on the box stating that the laptop had been set up and a recovery USB was inside! I had a good look at the machine and didn't find anything worrying. It had been set up with a single account named User, not password protected and with admin rights.
During the first hour or so, I did get a pop-up from HP prompting me to buy ongoing support, and that the initial support would expire on 06Oct19, suggesting that Currys had set up the laptop almost 6 weeks ago and triggering the initial HP support period.

I think Currys have been a little bit naughty, but I'll live with it. As far as I am concerned, the laptop has a 1yr guarantee and that should be supported by the supplier (Currys), so the guarantee must start on the date of my purchase receipt, 18Nov18

--kiloran

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Re: New laptop thoughts

#181365

Postby Breelander » November 19th, 2018, 11:46 am

kiloran wrote:Yes, the laptop had 1709 and it spent close to 4 hours last night installing 1803. A long time was spent "initialising...."


The actual upgrade would have only taken about 20-40 minutes. The vast majority of the 'initialising' time would have been spent downloading the upgrade files, some 3GB of them (I hope you're not on a capped broadband plan :)).

The upgrade to 1803 would have saved the old system to a Windows.old folder, occupying some 20GB. After 10 days this will be automatically deleted, but if you want to free up space sooner use Disk Clean up and click the 'clean up system files' button.

It had been set up with a single account named User, not password protected and with admin rights.


I always take the precaution of setting up a second local account and make it an administrator, just in case the first account gets corrupted and I cannot log in. There is a built-in account called Administrator but this is disabled by default (and for good reason, leave it that way). It is possible to enable the Administrator account when you can't sign in (but complicated and requires registry editing). It's far simpler to prepare for the worst and have another way in for emergency maintenance.

With a clean machine, now would be a good time to look at making a system image, Macrium Reflect Free is one of the best solutions for this.
https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

...the laptop had been set up and a recovery USB was inside...


If the Recovery Drive usb was created with the default option of 'back up system files to the recovery drive' then it will hold about 3-4GB and can reinstall Windows, including all the OEM customisations and drivers. It is effectively a 'factory reset' drive. The one Currys made would reset to 1709, you may want to make another one yourself now that you have 1803. Remember to include system files, without them a recovery drive cannot reinstall Windows.


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