Tel. call then internet disconnects

[wickham]

Recently, and just a few minutes ago, I've had a telephone call from a lady with an American accent saying that my internet service will be disconnected within 24 hours. I stop the call before she has said anything else, then find that my router has disconnected and starts reconnecting, successfully.

Assuming it is a spam call, how does the caller disconnect my internet? (landline via BT).

[bungeejumper]

Hard to think that she's got the ability to jam your broadband. Possibly a more general issue that you're only noticing now? (Confirmation bias?) Twice in the last ten years, I've had a spell when any incoming phone call killed the broadband for 30 seconds before the router reset. Both times it was due to a line fault that required Openreach's services.

BJ

[wickham]

Yes, probably, as on another occasion I think it was a call from someone else.
It happens to the phone that is next to my PC and from the same BT connection socket (not the main BT socket).

[chas49]

The first question to answer (IMHO) is how often does your router drop and reconnect without you having received such a phone call?

You may not always notice this happen. Depending on your router model, and your ability/desire to probe further, you may be able to get stats out of the router to determine how often this happens.

If either you have noticed "blips" in your connection on, say, 1-2 occasions a month, or you look at the router stats and find this out, this would mean the router has dropped the connection 10-20 times in a year, and you've had a phone call some time close to two of them.

If the router drops whenever it rains (for example), the problem is on the line and the scam is a coincidence and rightly ignored.

If the router has only ever done this when you've had one of these calls, you might need to investigate further.

###EDIT: Is there a micro-filter on this socket?? ###

[Alaric]

Both times it was due to a line fault that required Openreach's services.

A line fault, either internal or external, seems the likely cause. Thus any phone call could trigger it.

[bungeejumper]

Try the silent line test. Dial 17070 and listen for crackle. Then try pressing the call and hang-up buttons on your phone half a dozen times, and see if it kills the line noise. (Quicker still if you've got an old phone that you can hammer on and off.) In my case it was a dodgy connector at the top of a telegraph pole. The same connector both times! BT never seem to learn.

But don't call out the engineer until you're getting the same problem on the BT master socket (with every other socket disconnected). They'll charge you if the problem turns out to be in your home.

BJ

[kiloran]

I've had problems in the past with broadband dropping out when answering an incoming call. Didn't happen every time, probably depended on whether I answered the phone between rings or during a ring. There are some big signals on a telephone line.... around 50v DC plus about 70v RMS for the ring signal, so answering the phone at an instant when there was perhaps 150v peak on the line caused a significant surge which could easily interrupt the low-level broadband signal. The problem was caused by a faulty broadband (ADSL) filter.

If you do get frequent disconnects, remove all items from all the phone sockets (including the filters) and make some test calls from your mobile. Then add other bits of equipment with the filters one by one to try to identify the faulty filter.

--kiloran

[Infrasonic]

I'd second Kilorans suggestions for A/B'ing to get to the bottom of it.

[chas49]

I've had problems in the past with broadband dropping out when answering an incoming call. Didn't happen every time, probably depended on whether I answered the phone between rings or during a ring. There are some big signals on a telephone line.... around 50v DC plus about 70v RMS for the ring signal, so answering the phone at an instant when there was perhaps 150v peak on the line caused a significant surge which could easily interrupt the low-level broadband signal. The problem was caused by a faulty broadband (ADSL) filter.

If you do get frequent disconnects, remove all items from all the phone sockets (including the filters) and make some test calls from your mobile. Then add other bits of equipment with the filters one by one to try to identify the faulty filter.

--kiloran

AIUI you don't need to have the bell wire connected (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm), so you could take that out of the equation unless you have an old phone which actually needs it (pretty unlikely I think).

@wickham - if you need a new filter, don't buy one - just let me know and you can have a new unused one FOC (I have several in the box of bits which I don't use but might just need one day....)

[Alaric]

They'll charge you if the problem turns out to be in your home.

There doesn't seem any comeback if the faulty equipment had been previously installed by BT before they spun off Openreach as an arms length operation and before the need for wiring to support Broadband had been established. In our case, they had done a botch job when installing an extra line and sockets so there wasn't a connected master socket.

[jfgw]

AIUI you don't need to have the bell wire connected (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm), so you could take that out of the equation unless you have an old phone which actually needs it (pretty unlikely I think).

Almost all ADSL filters have a ring capacitor so, whatever 'phone you have, it should normally still ring even with the bell wire disconnected.

Julian F. G. W.

[kiloran]

I've had problems in the past with broadband dropping out when answering an incoming call. Didn't happen every time, probably depended on whether I answered the phone between rings or during a ring. There are some big signals on a telephone line.... around 50v DC plus about 70v RMS for the ring signal, so answering the phone at an instant when there was perhaps 150v peak on the line caused a significant surge which could easily interrupt the low-level broadband signal. The problem was caused by a faulty broadband (ADSL) filter.

If you do get frequent disconnects, remove all items from all the phone sockets (including the filters) and make some test calls from your mobile. Then add other bits of equipment with the filters one by one to try to identify the faulty filter.

--kiloran

AIUI you don't need to have the bell wire connected (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm), so you could take that out of the equation unless you have an old phone which actually needs it (pretty unlikely I think).

@wickham - if you need a new filter, don't buy one - just let me know and you can have a new unused one FOC (I have several in the box of bits which I don't use but might just need one day....)

The bell wire is just an extra wire connected to the incoming B line via a capacitor to inhibit the DC from the ring circuit. It's really a legacy from old phone systems where the audio side of the phones were connected in parallel but the ringers in series. The bell wire only exists (if at all in modern systems) internal to the house. The incoming A/B wires still have the 50v DC plus the 70v AC ring signal, and this combined signal goes to all telephone equipment in the house, even if the bell wire is disconnected.

--kiloran (designed telephones back in the 70s...... I hope my memory isn't failing me!)

[Breelander]

... I stop the call before she has said anything else, then find that my router has disconnected and starts reconnecting, successfully...
...Assuming it is a spam call, how does the caller disconnect my internet? (landline via BT).

Coincidence, most likely. I have lost count of the number of those scam calls I've had. I too just hang up and ignore them (nothing bad happens).

Restarts do happen, and this one would probably have happened even without there being a call.

There are legitimate reasons that BT may initiate a restart from their end. A restart is required after a Hub software update, for example. Open the web admin page for your Hub and scroll to the bottom. The software version and last update date should be listed there.

The Hub's own software (OpenRG) will initiate a restart if it detects a momentary loss of connection. In the web admin page for your Hub, look at the Event log and filter for the 'System' category. Look for entries like this....

04:44:55, 23 Jan.	(1212499.250000) The system is going DOWN for reboot.
04:44:55, 23 Jan.	(1212499.250000) OpenRG is going for reboot by IPC command
04:44:50, 23 Jan.	(1212494.250000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds

Filter for the 'Boot' category and you'll get a list of all the restart times and the software version at boot. This will enable you to find the date of your last software update (the date the version number changed).

07:20:17, 27 Jul.	( 34.670000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.130.1.32.1.3 (Type A)
07:20:06, 27 Jul.	( 23.890000) System start
16:44:04, 19 Jul.	( 32.650000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.130.1.32 (Type A)
16:43:54, 19 Jul.	( 22.120000) System start

[Alaric]

I have lost count of the number of those scam calls I've had. I too just hang up and ignore them....

Why is it that the landline suppliers seem incapable of identifying the source of these threatening calls and refusing to connect them? Particularly when you 1471 a scam call, try to ring it back and get "the number you have dialled cannot be recognised".

[madhatter]

Coincidence, most likely.

Yes indeed.

I had many of those calls in the last year. They seem to have replaced the years of fake Windows Technical Department calls, and the BT Technical Department calls that superseded them.

Usually of the form of a recording saying that my “internet is as about to be disconnected, and to press 1 to speak to some twerp, or 2 to go ahead.”

Sometimes it was not a recorded voice and I have said “okay fine” but still been put through to the “BT engineer”. Ditto for pressing 1 or 2. On one amusing occasion I pressed 1, got to speak to a woman who initially pretended to be unaware of why I had called, but then said my IP address had been compromised etc etc. On my pointing out that I don’t have BT or indeed any broadband connection on the phone (I use mobile) she angrily asked why I was wasting her time then?

A nice result.

[wickham]

Lots of replies to consider, but luckily it's an inconvenience unless I'm downloading or uploading at the time, so I'll just ignore a call if I'm busy on the internet. I've got an answerfone.

[XFool]

Just curious...

About how often/frequently do people get these calls? Is it ongoing over long periods or are there outbreaks, with long (months/years?) gaps in between?

[kiloran]

Just curious...

About how often/frequently do people get these calls? Is it ongoing over long periods or are there outbreaks, with long (months/years?) gaps in between?

I used to get about 1 call a quarter from "BT". The last time was a year or two ago when I got a call from "British Telecom" about a security problem with my internet. There ensued a long discussion where I insisted that broadband was provided by BT, and the caller insisted it was British Telecom. He got enormously irate when I explained the difference and that he should get to know who he was supposed to work for, and he finished up screaming that he would cut off my internet.

Not a happy chappie! Never heard from him again. An amusing diversion on a quiet day.

--kiloran

[XFool]

More exciting than my last such call. I can't now remember how long ago.

It was indeed a 'Windows support' call, I had only opened my mouth to say a couple of entirely polite words when he groaned and rang off. I know I'm boring, but really!

My theory was that people who are experienced at conducting these calls may develop an intuitive sense - based on tone of voice and exact words used - who is going to 'take' and who isn't. Anyway, that theory soothed my ego.

[Alaric]

About how often/frequently do people get these calls? Is it ongoing over long periods or are there outbreaks, with long (months/years?) gaps in between?

We seem to get several a week, notwithstanding putting each one of them on BT's 1572 call barring service. At least the "car accident" ones seem to have dried up.

Perhaps it's a mistake to occasionally try to wind them up by actually responding.
I assume the idea is to get you to install something on your computer, or is it that you have to pay them a fee not to be disconnected?