IFTTT, Hive Thermostat - based on weather or occupancy?

[Clariman]

I've recently had Hive installed in a holiday home that we use ourselves and rent out. I have set up a Hive heating schedule to be used when it is occupied. When guests leave I'll put it in 'holiday mode' until next guests are due in. However, this prompted 2 thoughts ...

1. The heating doesn't need to be on at all in the summer months or on warm days.
2. I need to remember to switch in and out of holiday mode. It would be good if I could automate this based on bookings.

So I wondered whether these things could be automated. I read that Hive can be used in conjunction with IFTTT and that weather can be used. So would I be right in thinking that item 1 above could be done reasonably easily e.g. if the forecast temperature locally is above 17, then switch heating off?

Any feedback on IFTTT as a mechanism?

Item 2 would mean that I would need to check bookings in an automated way. Are there screen scraping tools in IFTTT that would let me work this out from online bookings? What other methods could I use?

In summary, I'd like to be able to something like ....

If (booking=Yes AND Temp-forecast<17), put in standard heating schedule mode, ELSE switch off

Thanks
Clariman

[Infrasonic]

Any feedback on IFTTT as a mechanism?

I've used it for a few years now with ready made 'recipes' for basic things like cloud to cloud account backups, SMS backup.

What you're proposing would probably need a bespoke 'recipe' that you'd have to do yourself, as it involves several services and either/or conditionality.
I think that may stretch IFTTT a bit as it is generally a KISS app.

There are other automation options with more complexity available, Flow/Zapier...https://www.google.com/search?q=IFTTT+v ... e&ie=UTF-8

Flow is looking pretty good these days but it's more geared towards the business/enterprise market rather than IoT, which IFTTT excels at.
Zapier I've never used but again it's supposed to be pretty comprehensive if your skills are up to it.

[Infrasonic]

Another thought, how about combining a smart lock with Hive?
IFTTT for the weather option when unoccupied, and the smart lock for occupancy?

[Itsallaguess]

Is this type of heating control system reliable enough for rented accommodation?

I don't particularly mean the HIVE system (although I suppose that's a relatively new system in itself...), but the proposed bolt-on IFTTT triggers and so on...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Infrasonic]

From a bit of googling you can use external temperature sensors with Hive, so one external with a variable thermostat trigger threshold and a cheap(ish) smart lock that will interact with Hive for occupancy and you're done (in theory).

If the CH has a frost mode anyway you could probably lose the sensor and just run the thermostat really low and let the smart lock bump it up via Hive when occupied? No need for any remote automation then.

[Slarti]

Is this type of heating control system reliable enough for rented accommodation?

I don't particularly mean the HIVE system (although I suppose that's a relatively new system in itself...), but the proposed bolt-on IFTTT triggers and so on...

We've had Hive since May and found it to be fine, totally reliable, unless the internet goes down and then I can't access it from the app.

The heating is based on the temperature where the thermostat is located, so I left mine running on Schedule in the summer, and it never kicked in at all as during the summer the whole house was warmer than we have it heated to now.

My only thought for a rental is, what if the renter times their life differently to the settings? EG if it is set for the heating to come on at 07:00 and go off at 23:00, but the renter is an early bird and gets up at 05:00 and goes to bed at 21:00? Or the other way round.

As for remembering to switch in and out of holiday mode, reminders on your phone?

Cheers
Slarti

[Slarti]

Another thought, how about combining a smart lock with Hive?

But is there a smart lock that is secure?

I keep reading stories about them failing open when there is a power or internet cut, or the other way round with no manual override.

Slarti

[Infrasonic]

Another thought, how about combining a smart lock with Hive?

But is there a smart lock that is secure?

I keep reading stories about them failing open when there is a power or internet cut, or the other way round with no manual override.

Slarti

I'd definitely want one with a manual key facility as an override. My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission though, so old school has its own issues too...

With a holiday let security is always going to be an issue seeing as it's unoccupied much of the time.
Keeping as little of value in it as possible seems to be one route (my sisters).

A friend who has an airbnb flat (city centre) uses a fair bit of smart technology for access, one off codes, smart key safe et al.
He does that kind of thing for a living though (scrum master for enterprise level app development) so probably finds it much less daunting.

I'm 50/50 on it all currently. Without manual redundancy throughout any smart system it just becomes a major headache when it falls over, especially if it is several hundred miles away...

[Clariman]

Thanks all. The smart lock hive integration would be great in theory but wouldn't be practical for the property. It has an electric boiler wet central heating system which takes a long time to get it warm. Thereafter it is good at maintaining it.

So I really need to switch it on 24 hours in advance or first thing in the morning before a guest arrives.

The weather app integration would work though.

[Infrasonic]

https://ifttt.com/hive_active_heating

You might still be able to use IFTTT but it would probably need the two triggers being independant, rather than serial/conditional.
There are plenty of calendar triggers for other services, so one for Hive can't be that difficult to do.

[Infrasonic]

I've got an electric oil filled portable radiator that I use for spot heat in my flat sometimes, a couple of those on the end of smart mains plugs hooked into Hive could help mitigate the 24 hour CH warm up issue?

[Infrasonic]

https://techwiser.com/best-ifttt-alternatives/

8. Yonami- IFTTT alternative for Home Automation
Yonami is a new home automation app. Yet, it supports more than 100 different IoT devices and adding more every day.

Unlike IFTTT, you can add multiple when conditions (IFTTT only allows only one) in your routines. This feature alone makes it superior to IFTTT plus you can add an IF statement as well. The whole routine looks like this. When > event occurs, Run > actions, but only if > statement.

https://www.yonomi.co/supported-devices

No Hive currently though...

[AF62]

I've recently had Hive installed in a holiday home that we use ourselves and rent out.
...
In summary, I'd like to be able to something like ....

If (booking=Yes AND Temp-forecast<17), put in standard heating schedule mode, ELSE switch off

IFTTT doesn't do "and". It does "if this then that", so you could do either "if booking then schedule" or "if temperature then schedule" but can't do if one then the other.

You might be able to do it with Stringify and IFTTT together, but my experience with Stringify is it was more hassle than it was worth.

Personally I would just use the IFTTT with the booking calendar and let the thermostat in the Hive take care of the rest.

However as an aside I would be extremely annoyed if a holiday home I rented turned the heating off when it was only 17c outside and would be making very strong complaints and leaving reviews which might challenge the profanity filters.

[AF62]

Another thought, how about combining a smart lock with Hive?

But is there a smart lock that is secure?

I keep reading stories about them failing open when there is a power or internet cut, or the other way round with no manual override.

Slarti

I'd definitely want one with a manual key facility as an override. My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission though, so old school has its own issues too...

Perhaps the tenants wanted to be secure as well?

Anyway how could you discover they had changed the lock without trying your key, and you would never need to do that as if you needed to enter the house you would have made an appointment to see them and knocked on the door for them to open it.

[Infrasonic]

But is there a smart lock that is secure?

I keep reading stories about them failing open when there is a power or internet cut, or the other way round with no manual override.

Slarti

I'd definitely want one with a manual key facility as an override. My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission though, so old school has its own issues too...

Perhaps the tenants wanted to be secure as well?

Anyway how could you discover they had changed the lock without trying your key, and you would never need to do that as if you needed to enter the house you would have made an appointment to see them and knocked on the door for them to open it.

I found out when trying to enter the house for an outgoing inspection, after the tenants had moved out...
So your point is?

[Slarti]

My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission

Whenever I've moved into a property, I've always changed all of the locks because, who knows who has keys to the old ones?

The 2 times they were rented properties, I changed them back on moving out. I'm too mean to give away free locks

Slarti

[AF62]

My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission

Whenever I've moved into a property, I've always changed all of the locks because, who knows who has keys to the old ones?

Exactly. You would be stupid not to.

I'd definitely want one with a manual key facility as an override. My last lot of tenants on my house rental decided to change a front door yale lock on me without permission though, so old school has its own issues too...

Perhaps the tenants wanted to be secure as well?

Anyway how could you discover they had changed the lock without trying your key, and you would never need to do that as if you needed to enter the house you would have made an appointment to see them and knocked on the door for them to open it.

I found out when trying to enter the house for an outgoing inspection, after the tenants had moved out...
So your point is?

That the house was secure because they had changed the lock!

As for a landlord suggesting the tenant should ask for permission to change the lock - that is an utterly unreasonable suggestion. A reasonable suggestion would be to ask to be notified if the lock is changed, to avoid the issue you experienced.

[Itsallaguess]

As for a landlord suggesting the tenant should ask for permission to change the lock - that is an utterly unreasonable suggestion.

Some leases will allow it, and some will not. You do not know at this time, so why not ask before making assumptions?

Itsallaguess

[AF62]

As for a landlord suggesting the tenant should ask for permission to change the lock - that is an utterly unreasonable suggestion.

Some leases will allow it, and some will not. You do not know at this time, so why not ask before making assumptions?

Leases which don't allow it are not legal, so no leases do not allow it.

[Itsallaguess]

As for a landlord suggesting the tenant should ask for permission to change the lock - that is an utterly unreasonable suggestion.

Some leases will allow it, and some will not. You do not know at this time, so why not ask before making assumptions?

Leases which don't allow it are not legal, so no leases do not allow it.

I've read in the past that this wasn't the case - although I should caveat that with the news that I'm not a lawyer...

Reading this site seems to suggest that tenants can't simply change locks of their own accord -

However, a tenant cannot simply change locks without notice. This can:

Breach the tenancy agreement - This can allow the landlord to evict the tenant. Tenancy agreements usually mention that tenants cannot make unauthorised changes to a property, so locks do not have to be mentioned specifically.

Constitute criminal damage - This is particularly risky if the lock was removed without any warning and doubly so if it was thrown away.

https://plentific.com/advice/changing-l ... ights-964/

Itsallaguess