phones with compass

[Arborbridge]

I notice that phones with a working compass are becoming scarce. Motorola used to put a magnetometer on, but these have been disabled in favour of some other gizmo to do with paying at checkouts, in understand. Annoyingly, I believe it is available on the US versions, but not European ones.

I thought I was in luck with Nokia, who list phones with "compass". Unfortunately, their idea of a compass stretches the definition too far: they confirm it use GPS positioning to derive one's direction, not a magnetometer. The result is that it will not work unless one is moving, and fairly fast too - so it isn't what most people would describe as a compass at all.

I noticed since discovering that (which took an awful lot of persistence on my part with Nokia) other phones simply list "compass" as a sensor, and I suspect these are probably all the same style of "non-compasses". Unless it lists magnetometer, is isn't a usable compass, I've concluded.

So, unless I pay for a stupidly expensive phone, I'll have to pull out my old Moto G3 and use that.

Arb.

[Itsallaguess]

So, unless I pay for a stupidly expensive phone, I'll have to pull out my old Moto G3 and use that.

Argos are still selling the SIM-free Moto G6 Play for about £99, and that model still has a built in gyroscope for compass applications -

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7429055

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[bungeejumper]

The last time I looked, you could download a free app for a compass. Plenty to choose from.

BJ

[Arborbridge]

The last time I looked, you could download a free app for a compass. Plenty to choose from.

BJ

You can download as many as you like, but they won't necessarily work! In fact, that's how I found out my Moto G4 didn't have a magnetometer.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

So, unless I pay for a stupidly expensive phone, I'll have to pull out my old Moto G3 and use that.

Argos are still selling the SIM-free Moto G6 Play for about £99, and that model still has a built in gyroscope for compass applications -

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7429055

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Thanks for your input: I'll take another look at that phone. When it came out, there was something I didn't like about it, but can't remember what!

[Alaric]

You can download as many as you like, but they won't necessarily work!

If you know where the base stations are and thus the location of the phone, presumably an app can solve for where north is. It's not going to work if there isn't a signal. Presumably GPS can tell you where north is, but again it needs a signal.

[AleisterCrowley]

You can download as many as you like, but they won't necessarily work!

If you know where the base stations are and thus the location of the phone, presumably an app can solve for where north is. It's not going to work if there isn't a signal. Presumably GPS can tell you where north is, but again it needs a signal.

It could tell you where you are (roughly) but not which direction you are pointing in....
You can of course calculate an approximate track over time if the mobile is moving

[mc2fool]

Bah! I'm surprised at you Arb. Call yourself a mariner? Methinks even a keyring Silva would be a much better idea! What next, a half silvered mirror attachment for the phone's camera and a sextant app?!?

[Itsallaguess]

You can download as many as you like, but they won't necessarily work!

If you know where the base stations are and thus the location of the phone, presumably an app can solve for where north is. It's not going to work if there isn't a signal. Presumably GPS can tell you where north is, but again it needs a signal.

I use a route app called ViewRanger quite extensively on a Moto G4 that doesn't have a gyro, and it'll tell me quite happily which direction I'm going in just by pinging my GPS position and working it out. It displays my direction and walking speed on top of the map I'm viewing, and can't think how that might be improved if the G4 actually had a gyro in it, and all this works well even with no mobile signal at all....

Many other map/route-related apps will do the same thing, but obviously there are other stationary uses for gyros that won't work as well if there's no GPS movement to go from.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[James]

My Hauwei p20 has a working compass. I guess the Chinese need it to know where I am when spying on me.

[Arborbridge]

Bah! I'm surprised at you Arb. Call yourself a mariner? Methinks even a keyring Silva would be a much better idea! What next, a half silvered mirror attachment for the phone's camera and a sextant app?!?

Well, you're right. I even have a magnetic compass for walking stuffed in a drawer somewhere. But phones are supposed to do everything!

I first noticed the problem on my MOTO G4 when walking to some target street on google maps. You can walk about 50 yds before you realise you are walking the wrong way (Rita might say "head SW, but won't point the way!) and you can rotate on the spot in azimuth and the compass point does not follow suit.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

I use a route app called ViewRanger quite extensively on a Moto G4 that doesn't have a gyro, and it'll tell me quite happily which direction I'm going in just by pinging my GPS position and working it out. It displays my direction and walking speed on top of the map I'm viewing, and can't think how that might be improved if the G4 actually had a gyro in it, and all this works well even with no mobile signal at all....

Many other map/route-related apps will do the same thing, but obviously there are other stationary uses for gyros that won't work as well if there's no GPS movement to go from.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

You mention a gyro - I had not realised this would be used with compass apps - I thought it was the magnetometer which was used. Anyhow, presumably your phone (like mine) isn't showing a compass direction when you are static or if you download a compass app (I think some of my friends recommend OS Locate) it won't work. If you stand still with your ViewRanger and rotate I assume the map rotates with you and the compass just points to map north - i.e. you cannot use it to take a bearing on an object.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

I use a route app called ViewRanger quite extensively on a Moto G4 that doesn't have a gyro,

Itsallaguess

We have the same phone - do you also suffer from ghost touches? Mine is sometimes quite intolerable - even once sending a text to someone! - and when it is really bad I have to restart the phone. Sometimes, it is reluctant to even shut down.

Three times recently it switched itself off during using the navigator on the road, though this might have been due to overheating on a hot day. That's when I decided to look for a new phone, and thought this time I'd like to get one with a compass if possible.

Arb.

[Itsallaguess]

We have the same phone - do you also suffer from ghost touches? Mine is sometimes quite intolerable - even once sending a text to someone! - and when it is really bad I have to restart the phone. Sometimes, it is reluctant to even shut down.

Three times recently it switched itself off during using the navigator on the road, though this might have been due to overheating on a hot day. That's when I decided to look for a new phone, and thought this time I'd like to get one with a compass if possible.

No, I've had no issues with ghost-touches. Have you used one of the after-market screen protectors at all? If it's got a screen protector on it at the moment then I'd be tempted to remove that before buying anything new, just to see if the bsre screen removes the issue? You can always add a new screen protector of s different brand if you see sn improvement?

Regarding the phone switching itself off whilst using it in the car - the only time I had anything similar happen was when I got a new glass-suction holding arm, which is superb, but initially I had an issue where the gripping foam holding the phone itself was sited in a way to sometimes touch the buttons on the side if I wasn't really careful how I positioned it.

I got round the issue by slicing away some of the gripping foam, so that it now only grips the phone well away from the side buttons.

Not sure if this is relevant to your own issue Arb, but I only thought it worth mentioning due to us both having an issue whilst using it in the car...

Anyhow, whilst I'm here, I'm sorry to say that the Moto G6 Play doesn't have the compass that I thought it did, and it's the G6 model (not the Play variant...) that has the required magnetometer, as we can see from this UK spec comparison -

https://www.motorola.co.uk/products/moto-g-gen-6

https://www.motorola.co.uk/products/moto-g-play-gen-6

It really is a minefield out there, but thanks for following up on this discussion, because I might have missed this without some further prompting..

With regards to your ViewRanger question, I have my map set to stay static, and if I have been moving then there is a pointer on the map pointing in the direction I've been heading. If I were to stand still and turn around, the pointer doesn't turn in unison, and would only change the direction it's pointing in if I were to set off walking in that new direction.

I think it purely uses GPS pings to gather this information, which makes sense when I see it in action, but it's quite adequate for me to use with the route software, even up high mountains, but I do understand the desire for a 'pure' magnetometer/compass, but it feels like they've made such an item into a model-changing decision now, and so we might have to pay accordingly for it nowadays, even though they used to be included in even the cheapest phones in the past....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Arborbridge]

No, I've had no issues with ghost-touches. Have you used one of the after-market screen protectors at all? If it's got a screen protector on it at the moment then I'd be tempted to remove that before buying anything new, just to see if the bsre screen removes the issue? You can always add a new screen protector of s different brand if you see sn improvement?

Regarding the phone switching itself off whilst using it in the car - the only time I had anything similar happen was when I got a new glass-suction holding arm, which is superb, but initially I had an issue where the gripping foam holding the phone itself was sited in a way to sometimes touch the buttons on the side if I wasn't really careful how I positioned it.



Anyhow, whilst I'm here, I'm sorry to say that the Moto G6 Play doesn't have the compass that I thought it did, and it's the G6 model (not the Play variant...) that has the required magnetometer, as we can see from this UK spec comparison -

https://www.motorola.co.uk/products/moto-g-gen-6

https://www.motorola.co.uk/products/moto-g-play-gen-6

It really is a minefield out there, but thanks for following up on this discussion, because I might have missed this without some further prompting..

With regards to your ViewRanger question, I have my map set to stay static, and if I have been moving then there is a pointer on the map pointing in the direction I've been heading. If I were to stand still and turn around, the pointer doesn't turn in unison, and would only change the direction it's pointing in if I were to set off walking in that new direction.

I think it purely uses GPS pings to gather this information, which makes sense when I see it in action, but it's quite adequate for me to use with the route software, even up high mountains, but I do understand the desire for a 'pure' magnetometer/compass, but it feels like they've made such an item into a model-changing decision now, and so we might have to pay accordingly for it nowadays, even though they used to be included in even the cheapest phones in the past....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

It really is a minefield out there - I can agree with that because I have spent hours getting slightly obessessed about it! I had a prompy reply from Nokia and as I thought, the "compass" only works if you walk along. The helpline guy mentioned that it worked well on ViewRanger.

The switching off problem is a different origin to yours, I believe, as when it's in the car it is "loose" and not restrained.

I've just tested my old phone - a Moto G3 - and that works well with a superb app called OS Locate. Using this, you can hold the phone up and take a bearing on any opject which you can see in the view - perfect. Yet this is on my first and cheapest smartphone!

The change is all down to marketing, rather than cost. They have deemed it more attractive to activate to NFC function (I'm guessing here a bit) rather than offer he compass - because who but a few weirdoes want a compass? I read some where that the necessary hardware is installed but jus not activated, so why couldn't they give us a choice?

BTW, I haven't checked the G6 but I think it has a lower resolution screen than the Nokia 7.1 or my G4.

[Arborbridge]

To emphasise the nightmare aspect, I looked up the G6 from the link - sure it has a magnetometer - but then go to the retailer, let's say Amazon (John Lewis no longer stock it) and I find the following sensors:

"Accelerometer, GPS, compass, gyroscope and NFC."

Now this immediately makes me suspicious. No magnetometer listed, but "compass" and NFC. Unless one then chases this down a verification route, one won't know if this is a mick-mouse "compass" or a proper one. I suspect there are different editions of the phone with different items installed.

Arb.

[swill453]

I use a route app called ViewRanger quite extensively on a Moto G4 that doesn't have a gyro, and it'll tell me quite happily which direction I'm going in just by pinging my GPS position and working it out. It displays my direction and walking speed on top of the map I'm viewing, and can't think how that might be improved if the G4 actually had a gyro in it

I too use Viewranger a lot, and I agree that for most navigation the compass (my Huawei has one) is superfluous.

However it does come in handy sometimes. When you're sitting having lunch and wonder "what's that mountain/island over there?", it's easy to line the map up with north and work it out.

Scott.

[Arborbridge]

However it does come in handy sometimes. When you're sitting having lunch and wonder "what's that mountain/island over there?", it's easy to line the map up with north and work it out.

Scott.

Precisely! And also when you want to know which direction you need to start walking in to follow a route on Google. Why should we need to walk along the street 50 metres before realising we are going the wrong way, when the phone's compass (it is did its job properly) should give the direction to set off immediately?
I've had this scenario several times in London or towns.

Arb.

[AF62]

To emphasise the nightmare aspect, I looked up the G6 from the link - sure it has a magnetometer - but then go to the retailer, let's say Amazon (John Lewis no longer stock it) and I find the following sensors:

"Accelerometer, GPS, compass, gyroscope and NFC."

Now this immediately makes me suspicious. No magnetometer listed, but "compass" and NFC. Unless one then chases this down a verification route, one won't know if this is a mick-mouse "compass" or a proper one. I suspect there are different editions of the phone with different items installed.

The Moto G6 (don't know about the G6 Play or G6 Power, but the G6) does have both a real compass as it has the magnetometer and has NFC. I know I bought one from Amazon last year and used it for a few months - but then the headphone socket stopped working so I sent it back.

[Arborbridge]

To emphasise the nightmare aspect, I looked up the G6 from the link - sure it has a magnetometer - but then go to the retailer, let's say Amazon (John Lewis no longer stock it) and I find the following sensors:

"Accelerometer, GPS, compass, gyroscope and NFC."

Now this immediately makes me suspicious. No magnetometer listed, but "compass" and NFC. Unless one then chases this down a verification route, one won't know if this is a mick-mouse "compass" or a proper one. I suspect there are different editions of the phone with different items installed.

The Moto G6 (don't know about the G6 Play or G6 Power, but the G6) does have both a real compass as it has the magnetometer and has NFC. I know I bought one from Amazon last year and used it for a few months - but then the headphone socket stopped working so I sent it back.

Thanks for that.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've come across cases where a phone can be the same model name, but has different model codes or IDs, so my advice to anyone is to ascertain from the retailers the exact model ID then check with the manufacturer the exact specification.

Arb.