Refurbished Desktop

[sg31]

My desktop is getting a little tired. When I switch it on there is a grinding noise for about 5 or 10 minutes which sounds like a fan bearing might be on it's way out. My original intention was to take it into a local independent computer shop I've used before and have it looked at but I did see some refurbished used machines online that seemed very reasonable and might be an upgrade on mine. I have a desire for an SSD, not that it's essential but what the heck.

Please can anyone recommend a reliable seller of decent quality machines?

What size SSD hard drive and memory should I be looking at ?

[mc2fool]

What size SSD hard drive and memory should I be looking at ?

For what? Without specifying your intended use it's like asking what size and speed of car should you buy, without letting on whether your primary purpose is to transport your large family and dog or to impress and entice young ladies.....

What operating system you intend to use would be useful too!

[Howard]

We got a couple of refurbed Dell pcs from Amazon for the office.

Base unit, windows 10, keyboard, moose and a hummungous screen. AND a 12 month warranty and delivered. They do basic officey stuff and internet. Nothing fancy.

...only one hundred and ten quid each. It was almost rude not to buy more.

What do you feed the moose on?

[AF62]

We got a couple of refurbed Dell pcs from Amazon for the office.

Likewise. I bought one of these a couple of years ago https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B072P2WYJW/ although it cost a bit more then, so at £115 it is a complete steal (although there are now i5s for very little extra money so if I was in the market I might be looking at those).

256GB SSD is fine for my needs, as I store most stuff on a server and in the cloud, and it starts virtually instantly. I have used as small as 64GB with Windows 10, but I wouldn't recommend it. I was able to install an extra 2.5" drive for a some backup storage (the SFF cases won't take an extra 3.5" drive). Windows 10 flies with the 8GB of RAM, and the Windows 10 Pro has a couple of useful extra features over Home. The Dell machines tend to come with DisplayPort video sockets rather than DVI or HDMI, but a £5 cable solved that problem.

The machine I got had obvious use with some scratches on the front near the power button, but nothing dramatic and has worked fine so far.

[Infrasonic]

We got a couple of refurbed Dell pcs from Amazon for the office.

Base unit, windows 10, keyboard, moose and a hummungous screen. AND a 12 month warranty and delivered. They do basic officey stuff and internet. Nothing fancy.

...only one hundred and ten quid each. It was almost rude not to buy more.

What do you feed the moose on?

It's for bigger hands that a mouse wouldn't accommodate...

[sg31]

For what? Without specifying your intended use it's like asking what size and speed of car should you buy, without letting on whether your primary purpose is to transport your large family and dog or to impress and entice young ladies.....

What operating system you intend to use would be useful too!

I'm currently on Windows 7 but no doubt it is time I updated to windows 10.

I stream video, work on spreadsheets, Libra office, photo and video editing but only simple stuff, general home office use. No games.

I need DP for my existing 27" screen which has a resolution of 2560 x 1440. I will likely update to a 32" 4K at some stage.

Bluetooth, WiFi and USB3 would be good and a DVD drive if anyone still fits them.

Those are the basic needs, I'll probably go over spec to give me some flexibility in future.

In the past I've always gone for machines made for me by the local computer shop but I've moved from that area and a Refurb seems like a cheaper option.

[Watis]

We got a couple of refurbed Dell pcs from Amazon for the office.

Base unit, windows 10, keyboard, moose and a hummungous screen. AND a 12 month warranty and delivered. They do basic officey stuff and internet. Nothing fancy.

...only one hundred and ten quid each. It was almost rude not to buy more.

What do you feed the moose on?

It's for bigger hands that a mouse wouldn't accommodate...

I replaced my mouse with a lemming for a while, but it kept falling on the floor.

Watis

[Infrasonic]

I replaced my mouse with a lemming for a while, but it kept falling on the floor.

Watis

RIP Cliff...

[mc2fool]

I'm currently on Windows 7 but no doubt it is time I updated to windows 10.

I stream video, work on spreadsheets, Libra office, photo and video editing but only simple stuff, general home office use. No games.

Well, photos and videos can consume lots of disk space, and video editing can be processor intensive, but you say "only simple stuff" so....

Probably best to start with your current PC as a reference. How big a disk do you have on that and how much have you used, and are likely to use in future?

I have SSDs on my two PCs, a 256GB one on my W10Pro desktop and a 240GB one on my W10Home laptop (235/224GB respectively as presented by Windows), and I'm using around half of each, but I don't have much in the way of photos and videos.

Like AF62, I find 8GB of RAM is plenty enough on the desktop (an i3-7100 3.9GHz). There's only 6GB on the laptop and that's ok, although as it's a 7 year old 2.5GHz AMD it's nowhere near as nippy anyway....

[Urbandreamer]

Probably best to start with your current PC as a reference. How big a disk do you have on that and how much have you used, and are likely to use in future?

I have SSDs on my two PCs, a 256GB one on my W10Pro desktop and a 240GB one on my W10Home laptop (235/224GB respectively as presented by Windows), and I'm using around half of each, but I don't have much in the way of photos and videos.

Like AF62, I find 8GB of RAM is plenty enough on the desktop (an i3-7100 3.9GHz). There's only 6GB on the laptop and that's ok, although as it's a 7 year old 2.5GHz AMD it's nowhere near as nippy anyway....

I managed to lose the post that I was going to send.
However, if we are to use the current PC as a reference, and go for a refurbished PC, the why not refurbish the current one?

I STRONGLY recommend backing up the existing hard drive as soon as you can, the noise might not be the fan.

I disagree with mc2fool about the idea fitting a SSD the size of the existing disk. Instead I would sugest a SSD between 250gB and 500gB, with a second hard disk to store data. Video editing could be done on files on the SSD, while files that are less often used could live on the rotating media.
If the noise is a fan then they are cheap and easy to replace. If it's the fan in the power supply, the same is true but a replacement power supply won't be difficult to source. While you have the box open remove as much dust as possible. I recommend removing the CPU cooler to clean that and cleaning the top of the CPU, then renewing the thermal paste between the two.

If you want windows 10, then you can download the tool from microsoft and upgrade your windows 7. If you want a clean install then you could buy a cheap windows 10 licence from ebay and do that instead.

You can find videos for all of the above on youtube.
It's not difficult and quite fun.

I can't stress enough the concept of backing up your data though. We have a NAS drive, which is copied to a old HP desktop every night at 2am automatically.

[mc2fool]

I disagree with mc2fool about the idea fitting a SSD the size of the existing disk.

Where did I say that? I didn't. Nowhere. Please don't put words into my mouth.

I said to use the current PC as a reference and asked what he's got and how full it is (and his expected future usage), as, clearly, if he's got a 3TB disk that's nearly full then what he'll need will be different from if he's only using 60GB of whatever disk he has. Similarly, if he finds his current PC nippy enough for his current usage then what he'll be looking for will be different to if he finds it excruciatingly slow.

Instead I would sugest a SSD between 250gB and 500gB, with a second hard disk to store data.

Which would be fine if he's currently got a 3TB disk that's nearly full and an unnecessary cost and complication if he's only using 60GB.

[Infrasonic]

It would make sense for the OP to post their current setup in detail, make, model number, motherboard, CPU, number of HDD's + size et al.

That way we can work out whether a refurb (+ maybe the free W7 upgrade to W10) of the current system is worth it economically or if a newer (refurb) W10 purchase would be the way to go.

WRT to SSD's they are very cheap currently, so even a smaller boot C drive and a larger (≤) 1TB data/multi boot D drive wouldn't be prohibitive.
The advantage of desktops and multiple SATA ports (4 being common) is that even without space for 4 x 3.5" HDD's you can usually get a couple case mounted and then blu tack/velcro the SSD's on to a convenient bit inside the case somewhere as SSD's weigh next to nothing.

[sg31]

I'm not much use with systems or anything else relating to computers but this is what I have got as far as I can tell

Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad CPU , Q9400@2.66Ghz, 2667M

RAM 4GB

Video Card AMD Radeon R7 360 Series, Res 2560 x 1440 x 60Hz

C Drive, Hard Disk Size 466GB, free space 177.29

Motherboard, Gigabyte G31m-es2l

Hope that helps

[Urbandreamer]

I'm not much use with systems or anything else relating to computers but this is what I have got as far as I can tell

Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad CPU , Q9400@2.66Ghz, 2667M
RAM 4GB
Video Card AMD Radeon R7 360 Series, Res 2560 x 1440 x 60Hz
C Drive, Hard Disk Size 466GB, free space 177.29
Motherboard, Gigabyte G31m-es2l

Hope that helps

Well IMHO, that's certainly reaching or reached it's end of life for anything responsive. It would be great as a NAS or server, for keeping backups of your valuable data provided that you address any reliability issues. I would be tempted to replace any fans and add one or two 1 tb hard disks. Then set up linux possibly using the added hard drives as a RAID array Hide it someware out of sight, but connected to your home network.

It's difficult even to find big enough DDR2 ram to get the performance boost that would come with moving to 8GB and while a SSD would provide some performance improvement the SATA interface just isn't close to fast enough.

I now think that your original idea has a lot more merit, now that I've seen the limitations of that motherboard.

I'm not sure that I'd recommend this particular model, but I've just glanced at ebay and there is a HP 8000 elite for £20 + £10 p&p that would probably outperform, simply because it has 8GB RAM (DDR3 at that) and it already has a 1TB hard disk! I have one myself automatically backing up my NAS every 2am. I wouldn't use it as a desktop today.

For the purposes that you describe rather than the HP mentioned I would select a old core i3 or i5 system with 8GB of memory. SSD would help, but be careful. It may make more sense to buy a cheaper system and sort out storage yourself.

As you say that you are not playing games you don't really need a graphics card, though you could use your old one if you feel like it. I seriously doubt that a better graphics card would help with streaming movies, though I do think that faster memory and possibly a better cpu would.

On the subject of hard disks, I'm sorry if I offended xfool. However I did feel that it was important to make the point that a SSD replacement for your 466GB (lets say 500GB) is £50. I also suspected from your OP that you would be using at least 200GB of hard disk storage (250GB SSD's are £40).
As said, you can easilly fit windows 10 on 120GB (I did on my son's gameing computer).
A standard 120GB SSD is £16-£20.
Lets add a 500GB hard disk for data.
Thats another £20.
So for you, £10 less for more storage with improved boot speed and in most cases running speed! If you could get by with a 250GB SSD, then for the same price you simply get more storage if you add a second hard drive and split programs from data.
In simple terms, at the moment, it VERY seldom makes economic sense to replace ANY hard disk with a similarly sized SSD.

It may make sense IF your computer is rattling around in a tank, or expected to run unatended for 50 years, or are thrashing it by accessing stupid amounts of data like simulating galaxies smashing together, or if you are not running windows but an embeded system like QNX that does only what you want so can be stupidly small (small enough that you can't buy stuff that small at cheap prices). However it just doesn't make sense at the moment for a standard desktop.

In my son's case I spent more because the SSD (£40) was "M.2" which is mother board mounted and at least 6 times faster than you could achieve with any SSD on your machine. The hard drive that I used was a hybrid 2TB with 8GB of cache and cost £110. You pay's your money and takes your choice.

[Breelander]

I'm not much use with systems or anything else relating to computers but this is what I have got as far as I can tell

Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad CPU , Q9400@2.66Ghz, 2667M
RAM 4GB
Video Card AMD Radeon R7 360 Series, Res 2560 x 1440 x 60Hz
C Drive, Hard Disk Size 466GB, free space 177.29
Motherboard, Gigabyte G31m-es2l

Hope that helps

Well IMHO, that's certainly reaching or reached it's end of life for anything responsive...

That may be a rather harsh judgment.

My 'daily driver' has 4GB RAM and a Pentium B950 with a benchmark about half that of Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400. Mine is responsive enough. In fact, that Q9400 is not far off the benchmark for my i7 4600U which, with a SATA SSD, quite sings along.

Benchmarks: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/In ... 1094vs2033

[AF62]

If you want windows 10, then you can download the tool from microsoft and upgrade your windows 7. If you want a clean install then you could buy a cheap windows 10 licence from ebay and do that instead.

Surely if you want a clean install of Windows 10, just use the download tool to upgrade Windows 7 (using the option to download to USB) and use that to upgrade your Windows 7 machine to get the Windows 10 licence, and then format and reinstall using the USB as you now have a genuine Windows 10 licence. Or at least that is what I have done in the past.

[Urbandreamer]

If you want windows 10, then you can download the tool from microsoft and upgrade your windows 7. If you want a clean install then you could buy a cheap windows 10 licence from ebay and do that instead.

Surely if you want a clean install of Windows 10, just use the download tool to upgrade Windows 7 (using the option to download to USB) and use that to upgrade your Windows 7 machine to get the Windows 10 licence, and then format and reinstall using the USB as you now have a genuine Windows 10 licence. Or at least that is what I have done in the past.

Sorry possibly you misunderstood what I meant by "clean".

Upgrading doesn't remove any bloat that might have been there originally. (then again I might be misunderstanding what you mean by upgrade)
This may not be important to you, but it is to some others.

https://www.howtogeek.com/142743/htg-ex ... -upgrades/

Ps, I note from that article that you don't have to purchase a new licence to do a clean install as I thought.

[mc2fool]

Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad CPU , Q9400@2.66Ghz, 2667M
RAM 4GB
Video Card AMD Radeon R7 360 Series, Res 2560 x 1440 x 60Hz
C Drive, Hard Disk Size 466GB, free space 177.29
Motherboard, Gigabyte G31m-es2l

LOL, well that's twice as fast, CPU mark wise, as my laptop and I'm still happily using that for most of the things you do, other than editing video.

What you haven't said is how your current PC feels to you, although the implication of your OP (as your original thought was simply just to get the fan fixed) is that it works fine enough for your usage and you don't feel a particular need for an upgrade -- indeed wouldn't even be thinking of one if it wasn't for the noise from your current PC -- but are only considering one 'cos that prompted you and you've noticed that there are refurbs available for a "very reasonable" price, is that right?

On your current system, I take it the disk figures you give are what Windows is reporting and what you have is what manufacturers sell as a 500GB disk. (https://www.howtogeek.com/123268/windows-hard-drive-wrong-capacity/). Ok, so you could replace that with a 500GB SSD and you would undoubtedly notice a significant improvement; I did when I replaced the 1TB disk on my laptop (SATA II) with a 240GB SSD (I was and still am only using around 120GB). However, 4GB of RAM is the maximum for your motherboard, so if you want to go for the recommended-by-all 8GB you will need a new system ... hopefully one that will last you for the next 10 years.

In considering disk size (whether for upgrade or on a new system), personally I wouldn't put Windows 10 on anything less than a 240-256GB drive. Sure you can get it onto smaller ones but, even though you might put your "big data" elsewhere, Windows and its installed software is really centred on the C drive and usage tends to increase over time, so plenty of headroom is a good idea for future proofing.

Your current drive is almost two-third full, which should be ok for quite a while Windows-wise, but the question is what is your expected usage for the foreseeable future? I.e. do you expect to be adding a lot more big files? If not then just a 500GB SSD could well last you for many years. If you think you will need more space sooner, then you could get a bigger one but bigger SSDs are incrementally quite a lot more expensive.

One alternative, as noted, would be two drives, say a 250GB SSD and a 1TB or more HDD, and another would be an SSHD, a hybrid that is an HDD with a SSD component where it keeps (totally transparently to you) the stuff you access most often. E.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Laptop ... B00B99JUBQ (just an example, not a recommendation, just the first one that came up on a search).

Each of these have different costs, and levels of (in)convenience, so it's a case of balancing your expected future needs against those.....

[AF62]

If you want windows 10, then you can download the tool from microsoft and upgrade your windows 7. If you want a clean install then you could buy a cheap windows 10 licence from ebay and do that instead.

Surely if you want a clean install of Windows 10, just use the download tool to upgrade Windows 7 (using the option to download to USB) and use that to upgrade your Windows 7 machine to get the Windows 10 licence, and then format and reinstall using the USB as you now have a genuine Windows 10 licence. Or at least that is what I have done in the past.

Sorry possibly you misunderstood what I meant by "clean".

Upgrading doesn't remove any bloat that might have been there originally. (then again I might be misunderstanding what you mean by upgrade)
This may not be important to you, but it is to some others.

https://www.howtogeek.com/142743/htg-ex ... -upgrades/

Ps, I note from that article that you don't have to purchase a new licence to do a clean install as I thought.

I think we are on the same page with 'clean', i.e. a blank formatted hard disk.

My suggestion was to do the upgrade to get the licence (although there would be the bloat) and then now you can do an old-fashioned start from scratch clean install (or you could take the option in the upgrade process to do the clean install), as either way Microsoft know you have a W10 licence for it.

[Infrasonic]

One thing to note with RAM+SSD is that if it's a decent 5 year guarantee SSD with DRAM and SLC cache then the page file activity that normally throttles most older machines with limited RAM + HDD's is exponentially improved.
https://www.howtogeek.com/126430/htg-ex ... isable-it/

So the 4GB RAM + decent C drive SSD in the current W7 machine should make a very noticable difference to performance, quite possibly enough to make it entirely useable for a while yet.
The easiest option would be to clone the current W7 HDD to a new SSD. Yes you'll carry over bloat but the SSD low latency will more than negate that.
Bree or another W7 expert would need to comment on the OEM/installer (it was built for you?) W7 license situation vis a vis the 'new hardware' scenario. (I'd guess it would be OK.)

At a later date you could still do the free upgrade to W10 (if wanted). Officially it ended a while ago but via MCT is still available (and will probably remain so as it is in MS' commercial interests to migrate as many as possible to W10).

I went from WXP to W10 a few years ago and I have to say for me W10 has been great.