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Why Linux?

Seek assistance with all types of tech. - computer, phone, TV, heating controls etc.
Tymeric
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Re: Why Linux?

#7521

Postby Tymeric » November 21st, 2016, 8:03 pm

looked at gramps, but after years of using Legacy my initial impressions were not encouraging, and to be honest, I didn't fancy the learning curve for what appears at first glance an inferior product.


Just downloaded the standard free version of Legacy 8....right clicked and opened with WINE....seemed to load ok...

Loaded a few people...opened and closed a couple of times and seems ok....might even have a go with it myself....

For WINE.....menu...Administration.....Software Manager....click on Featured.....WINE is there amongst some other good progs

staffordian
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Re: Why Linux?

#7529

Postby staffordian » November 21st, 2016, 8:29 pm

Tymeric wrote: looked at gramps, but after years of using Legacy my initial impressions were not encouraging, and to be honest, I didn't fancy the learning curve for what appears at first glance an inferior product.


Just downloaded the standard free version of Legacy 8....right clicked and opened with WINE....seemed to load ok...

Loaded a few people...opened and closed a couple of times and seems ok....might even have a go with it myself....

For WINE.....menu...Administration.....Software Manager....click on Featured.....WINE is there amongst some other good progs


This is one thing which puzzles me about Linux. I assume that if a Windows program runs successfully under Windows, does this mean Windows and Linux are essentially the same "under the hood"?

I use Moneydance to manage my finances and that runs under Windows, AppleOS and Linux, but I assumed they issued three different versions (though Moneydance runs on Java I believe, which probably complicates things further!)

I'll have a go with Legacy with Linux, but can I somehow run the existing Windows installation, or do I need to download a second version specifically within the Linux partition? I'm assuming the latter.

With regard to Legacy, it might not look the most intuitive of progams, but I find it extremely versatile and powerful, even though I'm probably only scratching the surface of it's features. It's ability to include notes and it's approach to recording sources is superb. The free version is good, and doesn't time expire, but there are quite a few features which can only be accessed once paid for.

Breelander
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Re: Why Linux?

#7535

Postby Breelander » November 21st, 2016, 8:41 pm

staffordian wrote:This is one thing which puzzles me about Linux. I assume that if a Windows program runs successfully under Windows, does this mean Windows and Linux are essentially the same "under the hood"?


No. They are quite different "under the hood" but in Linux you can use WINE (a recursive acronym for 'WINE Is Not an Emulator') to allow Windows programs to run in a familiar environment. https://www.winehq.org/

staffordian
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Re: Why Linux?

#7540

Postby staffordian » November 21st, 2016, 8:48 pm

Breelander wrote:
staffordian wrote:This is one thing which puzzles me about Linux. I assume that if a Windows program runs successfully under Windows, does this mean Windows and Linux are essentially the same "under the hood"?


No. They are quite different "under the hood" but in Linux you can use WINE (a recursive acronym for 'WINE Is Not an Emulator') to allow Windows programs to run in a familiar environment. https://www.winehq.org/


Thanks Bree, that makes more sense.

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Re: Why Linux?

#7544

Postby Infrasonic » November 21st, 2016, 9:03 pm

https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/gui-your-cli

For new Linux users, the command line is arguably the most intimidating thing. For crusty veterans like me, green text on a black background is as cozy as fuzzy slippers by a fireplace, but I still see CLI Companion as a pretty cool application.



https://launchpad.net/clicompanion

CLI Companion is a tool to store and run Terminal commands from a GUI. People unfamiliar with the Terminal will find CLI Companion a useful way to become acquainted with the Terminal and unlock its potential. Experienced users can use CLI Companion to store their extensive list of commands in a searchable list.

ten0rman
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Re: Why Linux?

#7814

Postby ten0rman » November 22nd, 2016, 4:11 pm

I find it best to think of WINE as an interface between a Windows based program and Linux, especially as has been said, WINE is supposed to stand for "Wine is not an emulator".

You will only need one installation of WINE, and once set up, it can be used for two or more Windows type programs simultaneously. There is a downside though, and that is that WINE is a work in progress and your Windows based program may not work correctly although it has to be said that WINE is improving. To give you an example. Initially I had WINE v 1.4 on my computer. With this version Paint Shop Pro v.7.04 (PSP) was satisfactory, however Design Cad 3D Max v.17.2 (DC17) was unusable. Fortunately for me, an earlier version of DesignCad, Design Cad Pro 2000 (DC2K)- still 3d although it doesn't appear so from the title, worked more or less correctly. Later I installed WINE version 1.6 and found that PSP was still ok, DC2K was perfect, and DC17 was now usable although there were still some issues. The latest stable version of WINE is 1.8.5. I haven't tried it so cannot comment on it. (Note that WINE comes in two versions, stable and development. The stable version is the recommended version whilst the development version, although a later issue, may have bugs in it hence for most people the stable version is recommended.)

You will also find that setting up a Windows program to work via WINE can sometimes be a bit tricky - missing dll's for example, but usually it can be fairly easily sorted out. Another problem I had was that with PSP, the facility to automatically load a specific set of commands doesn't work, but I got round it very easily by using the facility to load a pre-saved workspace. Ok, a few extra key strokes, but so what, it then worked faultlessly.

One final comment if using WINE, don't bother asking questions on the Linux forums - you will be chewed up, carved up, torn apart and finally disposed of by the Linux fanboys who simply cannot understand why anyone should want to sully Linux with a Windows program - the fact that as I pointed out, that at my age, early 70's, I don't have the luxury of another 25+ years in which to learn all the ins & outs of any equivalent Linux program, is totally irrelevant to them, hence for me a hybrid solution is required.

If your program adamantly refuses to work via WINE, then VirtualBox (VB) by Oracle is another option, although it then requires more keystrokes to get your program up and running. I have a DOS based database which initially I used via VirtualBox, but to open it required firstly opening VB, then starting XP and then starting my program. Shutting down was similar. There was also a problem in accessing the data. Having said that, I actually wrote a DOS batch file which automated both the opening of the DOS program, and the accessing and saving of the data thus reducing the keystroke count somewhat. (In fact, I no longer use VB following the advice from someone on the old fool. I now use DOSemu, but I appreciate that it may not be suitable for everyone.)

But apart from that, go with it, enjoy Linux, you will not regret it.

Regards,

ten0rman

staffordian
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Re: Why Linux?

#7831

Postby staffordian » November 22nd, 2016, 4:56 pm

Thanks for that detailed post Ten0rman, and the advice about the Linux crowd's reactions to Wine queries :)

I installed Wine last night and somehow got Legacy working fine, including loading a large-ish file containing several hundred people, so I'm quite impressed.

Just got to see if I can get Filmora (my video editing program) running or try one of the three alternatives suggested above, and thats about everything covered.

Staffordian

Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#8657

Postby Infrasonic » November 24th, 2016, 4:54 pm

As this is developing into a general Linux thread I thought I'd post a couple of reviews of laptops with Linux as the factory installed native OS, so casual readers can see what the potential +/- are.

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/0 ... on-review/

http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2016/1 ... ux-laptop/

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Why Linux?

#11266

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 2nd, 2016, 2:26 pm

staffordian wrote:Thanks for that detailed post Ten0rman, and the advice about the Linux crowd's reactions to Wine queries :)

There are some ill-considered and bad-tempered posts on the Lemon Fool[1], therefore Lemon Fool is not worth bothering with.

Alternatively, ignore the noise. Ask sensible questions (preferably after googling for the last time someone asked the same question) and get helpful answers.

[1] just visit any politics thread, especially one mentioning brexit.

Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#11511

Postby Infrasonic » December 3rd, 2016, 1:38 pm

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3144644/ ... tk.rss_all

When I got the heads-up that Red Hat was readying the release of Fedora 25, it caught my attention like any new release of a major Linux distribution would. But I was in for a pleasant surprise when I went to download a copy of the image.

The first thing to know about the new version of Fedora is that you don’t have to download an ISO file and write it to a USB stick. This is an important thing to note, as preparing installation media for Linux is one of the bigger hurdles for newbies. (When I say newbies, I think of my mom trying to download and properly burn a USB image.)

Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#15489

Postby Infrasonic » December 15th, 2016, 7:34 pm

http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-te ... ustworthy/

While the fight against government-mandated software backdoors raged for most of 2016—including the showdown between Apple and the FBI over the San Bernardino shooter's iPhone, and the UK's new Investigatory Powers Act, which gives the government the power to demand UK companies backdoor their software to enable mass surveillance—the Core Infrastructure Initiative (CII) has been quietly working to prevent an even more insidious form of backdoor: malicious code inserted during the software build process without a developer’s knowledge or consent...
Cont.

...Reproducible builds, also known as deterministic builds, ensure a byte-for-byte equivalent binary given identical source code. Reproducible builds make it possible for anyone to reproduce the build process and gain improved confidence that a software package is what the developer intended...
Cont.

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Re: Why Linux?

#15586

Postby superFoolish » December 16th, 2016, 2:58 am

I use Windows 7 because I have to be an MS Office expert (it's my job). In my experience, it just works, and I honestly can't remember the last time Windows 7 crashed or rebooted. I know how to do everything that I need to do. My son and my parents also use Windows, and other than software support ('How do I do X)', they never have any problems either. I did IT support for 20 years, and the problems that people had were almost inevitably because they had been messing around with settings, downloading software from unknown sources, or just being a bit daft (i.e. completely ignoring dialog boxes and clicking OK). Without a doubt, in the past, it could to be a pain getting hardware to work with Windows, but in my experience, these days, you just plug it in and it works.

I run Windows 7 on a Mac Mini (a native installation, not a virtual machine). I have a Mac Mini because I do some iOS app development, and using a Mac is practically the only way to create iOs apps. I don't get on with OS X (or whatever it's called now), but I think that's because I am used to the Windows way of doing things, not because Windows is 'better'. I suspect the same would apply in reverse if I had been using Macs for 30 years.

I use Linux purely for techie stuff, mainly because it's the OS for Raspberry Pi. I'm sure that it would be ideal for most home users. The problem is that many home users use Windows at work, and they don't want to learn two different ways of doing things (a bit like me with Windows and OS X).

As long as am working, I'll be using Windows because it just works. Office 365 is amazing. Most people who use it simply don't have a clue how to use the software. I regularly work with people who spend hours (sometimes literally days and weeks) wasting their time, carrying out tasks that they could do in (again, literally) minutes. That's not their fault, because they are expected to do things like collaborate effectively with people all over the world, without having been trained. Without being trained, how are you supposed to know how to collaboratively edit documents on-line, etc. I can leave my desk at work, go home, and continue working on exactly the same documents without having to think about it. Equally, I can pick up my laptop and work anywhere that there is an Internet connection. If I want to give a customer read or write access to a document, I can do it in a matter of seconds, and they can have it on their screen within a minute - editing as I watch, if required. If there isn't an Internet connection, then I can still access all the documents that are automatically synced to my hard drive - it just works.

If I didn't need MS Office, and I didn't need Mac OS X, I might well use Linux as my main OS - I was thinking that perhaps, when I retire completely, I might be able to dump Windows and OS X, and survive solely with Linux (because it's free and I won't want to be paying for subscriptions to Office 365!). I don't see that happening for another 10 years, and I just can't imagine what the OS landscape will look like then.

One thing I am fairly sure of, is that when I retire, I don't want to rely on third-party services - subscriptions are a drain on the wallet. I have been building my own home-automation system, and it was very tempting to use third-party services for storage and communication - many of them are free, but I suspect that will not last for long. There are also issues relating to security (I would have no option other than to trust them) and, no doubt, many of those services will shut down for one reason or another (Parse is a good example). This is where Linux excels in my experience - I can create computer systems that can do whatever I want very cheaply - the hardware is very low cost, and the software is free.

For home users who just need the basics (that's all most people need), and only need basic compatibility with MS Office (or no compatibility at all!), Linux is a very good, free solution that will run on oldish hardware.

Stonge
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Re: Why Linux?

#15632

Postby Stonge » December 16th, 2016, 10:09 am

One of my best purchases was a Raspberry Pi 3. I bought the recommended plastic case as well, but I wouldn't bother next time, I'd use the cardboard box or make a case out of stiff paper. The Pi and power supply plus 32GB micro SD card cost around £45.

The OS is Raspbian which runs on the SD card. Raspbian is a version of Linux. FOC. Pi 3 has built in wi-fi and Bluetooth. I bought a cordless mouse and keyboard for £15 (it uses a USB dongle not Bluetooth, but as there are 4 USB ports I wasn't too worried). Connecting to the WiFI router was easy and works well most of the time.

Raspbian came with Libre Office which runs pretty quickly. There is a pdf reader app but it isn't very good.

Web browser I use Iceweasel (I'm typing this on Iceweasel), email I use Icedove. Both work OK on the Pi 3.

I'm not sure this system actually can catch Ransomware but if it did I'd just reload the OS onto the SD card. I've had a few emails that slipped through and were obviously dubious but weren't effective on here.

I bought an ASUS HDMI 24 inch hi-res screen which is nice and the Pi handles it OK.

I use the Pi for most web browsing and emails. My Windows 7 desktop is used for photo-editing and desktop publishing, only occasionally connected to the Internet.

When the Pi 4 is released I'll buy that and donate the 3 to a school or somewhere.

Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#16959

Postby Infrasonic » December 20th, 2016, 5:09 pm

http://www.zdnet.com/article/serious-ub ... and-fixed/

Donncha O'Cearbhaill, an Irish security researcher, found a remote execution bug in Ubuntu. This security hole, which first appeared in Ubuntu 12.10, makes it possible for malicious code to be injected into your system when you open a booby-trapped file. This can be used to crash your system or run malware. It does not -- a small blessing -- enable attackers to become the root user.
Cont.

didds
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Re: Why Linux?

#16965

Postby didds » December 20th, 2016, 5:26 pm

Infrasonic wrote: makes it possible for malicious code to be injected into your system when you open a booby-trapped file.


so another example of user error/infallibility needed to expose oneself. Albeit I accept its because of inherent vulnerability.

Presumably ubuntu have worked to patch that by now?

didds

Sussexlad
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Re: Why Linux?

#17007

Postby Sussexlad » December 20th, 2016, 7:33 pm

I've used 'Image for Linux' for long time now.

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm

I have done quite a few full restores when experiments haven't quite worked out and never had an an issue with it.
I leave the external drive switched off unless I'm actually using it. Highly recommended.

Stonge
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Re: Why Linux?

#17875

Postby Stonge » December 24th, 2016, 10:25 am

There is now a Raspbian PIXEL Linux desktop release for x86 pcs.

Unfortunately it didn't work on my Dell PC (normally Windows 7) but apparently works on most PCs.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/pixel-pc-mac/

Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#17910

Postby Infrasonic » December 24th, 2016, 2:36 pm


Infrasonic
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Re: Why Linux?

#31690

Postby Infrasonic » February 15th, 2017, 11:54 am


didds
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Re: Why Linux?

#31704

Postby didds » February 15th, 2017, 12:28 pm

andycowl wrote:Interesting thread. I've used Unix systems for many years and use Fedora 25 (and Linux servers) at work and Debian, Linux Mint on home computers. I think there's a misconception that Linux is purely for technically minded people but that's not always the case.


This. ^^^

I occasionally get given old / effectively dead laptops that are just not "economically" viable to fix. Usually they just need a rebuild - assuming there is media/license available, or just need a replacement HD ( scavenged from other dead laptops !) . I give them to a local domestic abuse charity for the people tyat are being rehomed etc.

Its not unusual however to find its not possible to put windows on such a refurbed system, usually cos I can;t put a licensed and authenticated version of windows on it. The obvious choice wold be to stick something like Mint on it which will be fine for basic browsing and email, homework etc, But my fear is that should I provide such a system it just won;t get used as its "not windows" and will just end up gathering dust, thrown in a skip, or actually sold ... none of which I feel I want to happen (ethical and philosophical debates elsewhere maybe ;-).

didds


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