Desktop won't boot.

[PrincessB]

How annoying.

Without going to far into the boring details, Outlook decided it didn't work any more and after a few goes with the self fix, something clearly shot out sideways and knocked out Windows 10 which now won't boot.

I tried the Windows on a USB stick repair method which can't mend things either.

Needless to say, the last backup is relatively old so I'd much rather coax things back to life than lose some useful data.

Has anyone got any recommendations for something recovery oriented that might assist?

In the meantime, I'm going to clone the non booting drive to ensure I don't lose anything. The most precious data is the e-mail archives which go back years.

TIA

B.

[madhatter]

It appears that Outlook has been down for a lot of people. This may be relevant:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/outlook-d ... to-fix-it/

Or it may not, but it seems an update last night seems to have caused a problem and Microsoft is expected to roll out a fix within hours. (It sez ‘ere)

[YeadonLad]

My Outlook decided that it didn't want to work today either. Offered to open in Safe mode but this didn't work either. Reboot had no effect.
Updated with a couple of Windows updates but still the same.
Managed to do a repair on Microsoft Office and this allowed me to open Outlook in safe made but not as normal.
Was then offered the Feature Update - downloaded this, installed and rebooted. Outlook is now working correctly.

Kevin

[GeoffF100]

You could try booting from a live Linux DVD or USB. Linux should have no problem reading your files. Your machines have plenty of horsepower so how about Ubuntu:

https://ubuntu.com/desktop

[Mike4]

How annoying.

Without going to far into the boring details, Outlook decided it didn't work any more and after a few goes with the self fix, something clearly shot out sideways and knocked out Windows 10 which now won't boot.

I tried the Windows on a USB stick repair method which can't mend things either.

Needless to say, the last backup is relatively old so I'd much rather coax things back to life than lose some useful data.

Has anyone got any recommendations for something recovery oriented that might assist?

In the meantime, I'm going to clone the non booting drive to ensure I don't lose anything. The most precious data is the e-mail archives which go back years.

TIA

B.

I dunno if things have changed but at the time I eventually dumped Windows, re-installing windows on top of an existing, broken installation left all the data files still present and unaffected.

So there is a possibility re-installing Win 10 might do the same and your email archive will still be there.

[Nocton]

This is perhaps a good reason not to use a product like MS Outlook which, like Internet Explorer was, is integrated with the operating system? Much better to use standalone software like Thunderbird.

[bungeejumper]

Might be a coincidence, but my Thunderbird's been playing up as well in the last couple of days. Taking three attempts to log on, and failing while delivering large messages. In the past I've been inclined to blame these disruptions on Kaspersky, which is too clever for its own good, and which I'll probably dump when this year's subscription is up. But maybe it was a Windows issue?

WRT the non-starting business, I had a spate of that a few months ago. Sometimes I had to cold-reboot three or four times before it would wake up from sleep. Got there in the end, though, each time. Finally bodged a fix by persuading it to hibernate instead of sleeping.

BJ

[Redmires]

I had a similarly affected laptop recently. After a lot of faffing I booted from a Macrium boot CD and used the repair tool. It didn't fix it first time round but worked after a couple of attempts. I immediately made an image of drive when it did boot.

http://kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50168.aspx

[Mike4]

This is perhaps a good reason not to use a product like MS Outlook which, like Internet Explorer was, is integrated with the operating system? Much better to use standalone software like Thunderbird.

This sort of thing seems a good reason to dump Windows too in my opinion.

I decided to switch to Apple as a result of continuing Windows problems like this and it's a breath of fresh air to me. But I've banged that gong enough on here already and most here seem to disagree with me.

When dumping windows the hard choice I found was what to jump ship to. Either Apple where everything is well controlled and tested at the expense of customisation, or Linux which seems highly regarded but the learning curve appears impossibly long and steep. (For me at least who needed a computer that 'just works' without long periods of learning why <whatever> doesn't.) Apple was the obvious choice but one day when I have time, I'll make the start on learning about Linux.

[GeoffF100]

3. When Linux updates, it doesn't delete the previous version. After a number of updates (many months), it's full up and you can't login.

I have never hit that problem with Lubuntu. With Linux, individual packages get updated, not the whole system. Updates have always been completely trouble free for me, and my memory usage has not measurably increased over time. Anyway, shortage of memory should not stop you logging in. I do not bother with a system log-in. (I just log into and out of individual websites.) Do you have a link describing your problem?

[martinc]

Outlook is just a program like Thunderbird, Windows email client etc. It's not 'integrated with the operating system' so it's very strange that any changes to Outlook would stop Windows booting. This sort of thing has happened several times to me, normally dodgy SSD related.

If you are using a hotmail-type email address all your emails will be on-line (login with a browser to outlook.com and see what is there)

If you save your emails to a local folder (like me) it will be somewhere like (depending on Windows and Outlook version):

Code: Select all

C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst

My outlook.pst is is 750Mb and has emails from the 90s so I make sure it's backed up.

If you can access your non-booting drive (e.g. from recovery USB or a Linux USB) look for all the *.pst and *.ost files, this is where your local Outlook folders are stored. I would copy these to a separate backup just to be sure. Your word docs, spreadsheets will be in somewhere like C:\Users\<username>.

If you have a Windows 10 install media (download from MS), I think you can do an 'upgrade' on an existing system and preserve all your settings - I would try that first.

Otherwise reinstall Windows and Office and restore your docs from the clone of the your old drive. In Outlook you can just add the Outlook.pst and it will appear under Personal Folders in Outlook.

Hope that isn't too basic but it's more helpful that changing to Apple/Linux.

[PrincessB]

It's not 'integrated with the operating system' so it's very strange that any changes to Outlook would stop Windows booting.

It was about time for it to pack up, I built the machine in 2013 and it has never been flushed out with a fresh install since.

I think you can do an 'upgrade' on an existing system and preserve all your settings - I would try that first.

Never underestimate the power of Microsoft to ensure that something so logical is possible. Microsoft also removed the extremely handy files and settings transfer wizard possibly as they cannot understand why we don't want every single file we own on the cloud instead.

Anyhow, rant over. I've cloned the drive so data is secure and it looks like the only option is to reinstall Windows. It's funny how lazy you can get when a device just works and works for years, so I'll up my game in that respect.

I've got a rather nice NAS (Bought at a time when they were selling them for little more than the cost of the hard drives inside it) that it knocking about in the attic, time I bought it out and get it running again.

I appreciate the Linux options, but despite numerous shortcomings I'll stick to Windows for the time being.

B.

[Infrasonic]

I think you can do an 'upgrade' on an existing system and preserve all your settings - I would try that first.

Never underestimate the power of Microsoft to ensure that something so logical is possible. Microsoft also removed the extremely handy files and settings transfer wizard possibly as they cannot understand why we don't want every single file we own on the cloud instead.

I think what was being referred to was an 'in place repair/upgrade'...https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/163 ... grade.html

I've successfully done them in the past with W10 via MCT USB flash drive, (instead of going the live download/update route).

[GeoffF100]

Thanks for that. I now fail to understand at a deeper level.

The problem in the link was on update rather than log-in. The problem was that the user installed Linux Mint with full disk encryption, which led to a separate boot partition with limited space being created. The user had old Linux kernels installed and the boot partition became full. However, the table here gives the kernel version for each Ubuntu release:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_ve ... f_versions

It is not clear to me how it is possible to get two kernel versions, unless you update from one release to another (rather than reinstall) or install a different kernel version manually (which sounds a bit drastic). Perhaps you avoid this problem if you do not use full disk encryption, or reinstall when ever you go from one Long Term Support version to another.

Here is a tutorial on "No space left on device":

https://www.maketecheasier.com/fix-linu ... ice-error/

I suspect that your problem was a Minty one.

[GeoffF100]

I have had a look at my Lubuntu 20.04 system:

Code: Select all

geoff@HP:~$ df -h
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev            1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /dev
tmpfs           383M  1.3M  382M   1% /run
/dev/sda1       110G  8.6G   96G   9% /
tmpfs           1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs           5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
tmpfs           1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs           1.9G     0  1.9G   0% /tmp
tmpfs           383M  8.0K  383M   1% /run/user/1000

I am clearly not going to run out of space anywhere any time soon. I also had a look at /boot:

Code: Select all

geoff@HP:~$ ls /boot
config-5.4.0-39-generic      initrd.img.old               vmlinuz
config-5.4.0-40-generic      memtest86+.bin               vmlinuz-5.4.0-39-generic
grub                         memtest86+.elf               vmlinuz-5.4.0-40-generic
initrd.img                   memtest86+_multiboot.bin     vmlinuz.old
initrd.img-5.4.0-39-generic  System.map-5.4.0-39-generic
initrd.img-5.4.0-40-generic  System.map-5.4.0-40-generic

5.4.0-39-generic and 5.4.0-40-generic are packages rather than full kernels. I seem to have only the 5.3.0 kernel.

I think the conclusion is that if you use full disk encryption, you need to keep an eye on the /boot partition, and run sudo apt-get clean if the space is getting tight.

[GeoffF100]

Here is a more helpful article on freeing up disk space:

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/5-w ... -on-ubuntu

[GeoffF100]

It is worth noting here that sudo apt-get clean does not have the effect that Snorvey's link said, according to the OMG article. (I have checked with man apt-get.) I ran this:

Code: Select all

geoff@HP:~$ ls /boot -l -h
total 196M
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 233K Jun 19 10:56 config-5.4.0-39-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 233K Jun 22 21:59 config-5.4.0-40-generic
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4.0K Jul  6 06:52 grub
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   27 Jul  5 20:33 initrd.img -> initrd.img-5.4.0-40-generic
-rw------- 1 root root  82M Jul  1 10:38 initrd.img-5.4.0-39-generic
-rw------- 1 root root  82M Jul  5 20:34 initrd.img-5.4.0-40-generic
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   27 Jul  5 20:33 initrd.img.old -> initrd.img-5.4.0-39-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 179K Feb 13 23:09 memtest86+.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 181K Feb 13 23:09 memtest86+.elf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 181K Feb 13 23:09 memtest86+_multiboot.bin
-rw------- 1 root root 4.6M Jun 19 10:56 System.map-5.4.0-39-generic
-rw------- 1 root root 4.6M Jun 22 21:59 System.map-5.4.0-40-generic
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   24 Jul  5 20:33 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-5.4.0-40-generic
-rw------- 1 root root  12M Jun 19 11:04 vmlinuz-5.4.0-39-generic
-rw------- 1 root root  12M Jun 22 22:07 vmlinuz-5.4.0-40-generic
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   24 Jul  5 20:33 vmlinuz.old -> vmlinuz-5.4.0-39-generic

Contrary to what I said, 5.4.0-40 is the current kernel and 5.4.0-39 is the old kernel. I expect that I could reclaim some space here, but I do not need to do so and would lose the option of booting into the old kernel:

https://karlcode.owtelse.com/blog/2017/ ... us-kernel/

Anyway, reclaiming space would result in writes to my SSD and increase its wear. It is best to leave well alone.

This is proving to be a good educational exercise!

[Redmires]

Hi PrincessB
How are you getting on with your issue ?

Just thought I'd ask as the thread seems to have been somewhat hijacked

[PrincessB]

How are you getting on with your issue ?

Just thought I'd ask as the thread seems to have been somewhat hijacked

I'm making steady progress - Thankfully the issue is all about Windows rather than hardware, so all of my data is intact and I've got a couple of clones of it all.

As luck would have it, I'd been building my (ahem - Lockdown) PC before the other unit had a fit. I'm not due back at work for a couple of weeks, so it is more a case of what goes where in the house rather than data recovery.

Current plan is to get the new build set up to replace the older unit. Performance wise, there's not that much between them at present What the new unit does offer is a nice clean upgrade path when I need it, the old one was pretty much maxed out.

Two things that have really impressed me so far are:

The Dell Inspiron small form factor unit I bought about a year ago. For most user, it would serve their needs perfectly.
It's got everything many people would want, built in wi-fi and Bluetooth, a pair of USB 3 ports on the front and another four USB 2 ports on the reverse. Built in Intel UHD graphics and a quad core processor. I'm rather impressed at how well it runs Windows 10 with a meagre 4GB of memory and most importantly it is incredibly quiet.
It's got a DVD drive just in case and after replacing the hard drive with 500GB SSD it flies along.

Second is just how much of a difference a decent display makes. The machine that flaked out lived at one end of the kitchen/diner and runs a 32" monitor. While I'm getting everything sorted out, I have the Dell on the 32" and the new build in the spare room with dual 24" displays.

It's not so much a problem once you've acclimatised, but when using the big screen for a while and then nipping across the house to the other machine and being greeted by a pair of tiny screens is seriously disconcerting for a few minutes - The difference between 1440 vertical and 1080 vertical is harsh.

So, I'll need new display - a 43" 4K should do nicely.
I also need to get hold of a legit version of Office Pro (The one with Outlook) for a reasonable price.
I can then locate my e-mail archive and copy it across.
Still need to clear a path to the attic hatch and fish the NAS out.

Regards,

B.