Freeview channels

[newlyretired]

According to the Radio Times and the Freeview TV Guide:
https://www.freeview.co.uk/tv-guide
channel 5+1 is on freeview channel 45

However on my TV and my Humax it actually comes up on freeview channel 44

I queried this with Radio Times and they say that it is on channel 45 and I need to retune, but I can't see how this could move it to channel 45 (and it works perfecly well on channel 44).

Does anyone know what is happening here?

newlyretired

[Itsallaguess]

Does anyone know what is happening here?

The Freeview channel movement is explained here on the Channel 5 website -

Please be aware, some of our channels are moving on Freeview

In July 2019, Ofcom published a statement on changes to the EPG Code. The statement set out minimum levels of prominence for public service broadcaster (‘PSB’) channels, which must be in place by 4 January 2021.

To meet these obligations, all channels currently broadcasting from channel numbers 24 to 55 on Freeview will move along one position from Nov 4th 2020.

5STAR will move from 30 to 31, Paramount Network will move from 31 to 32, Channel 5+1 will move from 44 to 45, 5Select will move from 54 to 55.

https://help.channel5.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360014660718-TV-channels-moving-on-Freeview-4th-November

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[newlyretired]

If channel 5+1 has moved from 44 to 45, how come I am still finding it at 44?

Is anyone else seeing the same thing?

newlyretired

[Itsallaguess]

If channel 5+1 has moved from 44 to 45, how come I am still finding it at 44?

That'll happen on any Freeview device that's not been retuned since November 4th 2020, as highlighted in the earlier link.

Until you do that, any Freeview device will still think that particular channel is on it's old channel number.

Is there a particular reason that you're not wanting to just retune the devices and fix the issue completely?

As a side note - I've got a HUMAX Freeview box myself, and we've usually got a recording-schedule with various programmes set to record at any given time, so whenever I retune any *recording* device I am careful to go through the recording-schedule, write down the channel (BBC1, BBC2 etc..) and programme details (name, day/date, time, single-programme or 'series record' etc...), and then clear out all my recording schedules before I do a re-tune.

Once the retune is complete, I then re-enter the previous recording schedules from my written list, and this helps me to avoid any issues with channel numbers changing for anything that I might have had previously set to record using any 'old' channel numbers...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[staffordian]

I must admit that this issue has always puzzled me.

I retune when prompted, but logic suggests to me that if a channel moves, then after the change, my TV ought to simply not find the channel on it's old number and therefore display a blank screen or the new channel which has taken the old number rather than continuing to show the original channel.

It does almost make one wonder what the point of a retune is if it still works fine regardless. I do realise it means that one would probably not have access to any new to Freeview channels.

[bungeejumper]

I've stopped worrying about this sort of thing. BBC4 disappears completely from my smart TV's listings every few months, but it comes back when I retune, which only takes a couple of minutes. Then it's all sweet till the next time.

In the past, and with another television, we've had a transmitter from Hampshire (68 km way away) cutting in above our local Mendip transmitter (35 km). So we get the wrong region's programmes, or the schedules do unexpected things. Either the local weather's playing up, or else the aliens have been partying above Salisbury Plain again.

BJ

[xeny]

Is there a particular reason that you're not wanting to just retune the devices and fix the issue completely?

As a side note - I've got a HUMAX Freeview box myself, and we've usually got a recording-schedule with various programmes set to record at any given time, so whenever I retune any *recording* device I am careful to go through the recording-schedule, write down the channel (BBC1, BBC2 etc..) and programme details (name, day/date, time, single-programme or 'series record' etc...), and then clear out all my recording schedules before I do a re-tune.

Once the retune is complete, I then re-enter the previous recording schedules from my written list, and this helps me to avoid any issues with channel numbers changing for anything that I might have had previously set to record using any 'old' channel numbers...

This process is to me enough to discourage casual retuning, especially as I tend to have series links for programmes that are shown intermittently.

If the series link is there then the box will "watch" it for me automatically. If I retune it, I lose the series link and if there's no instance of the programme in the TV guide, I can't as far as I know add it?

[Itsallaguess]

As a side note - I've got a HUMAX Freeview box myself, and we've usually got a recording-schedule with various programmes set to record at any given time, so whenever I retune any *recording* device I am careful to go through the recording-schedule, write down the channel (BBC1, BBC2 etc..) and programme details (name, day/date, time, single-programme or 'series record' etc...), and then clear out all my recording schedules before I do a re-tune.

Once the retune is complete, I then re-enter the previous recording schedules from my written list, and this helps me to avoid any issues with channel numbers changing for anything that I might have had previously set to record using any 'old' channel numbers...

This process is to me enough to discourage casual retuning, especially as I tend to have series links for programmes that are shown intermittently.

If the series link is there then the box will "watch" it for me automatically. If I retune it, I lose the series link and if there's no instance of the programme in the TV guide, I can't as far as I know add it?

I agree - and I'm the same in some circumstances, and only really retune when it's necessary to do so.

I wasn't particularly trying to advocate retuning at all to be honest - I was just trying to help the OP understand what's going on with his own situation, but I don't like even mentioning retuning without at least discussing the risk of already-set recording schedules possibly being messed up by doing so, and that's the only reason I went further and mentioned the process I use to mitigate that risk.

I agree that even that can be a pain if there's series-link schedules you're wanting to set back up that might be outside the particular guide-timeframe that then becomes available once a return is carried out...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[mc2fool]

If the series link is there then the box will "watch" it for me automatically. If I retune it, I lose the series link and if there's no instance of the programme in the TV guide, I can't as far as I know add it?

I agree - and I'm the same in some circumstances, and only really retune when it's necessary to do so.

Yes, and the annoying thing is that for most changes actual retuning shouldn't be necessary. As long as all the frequencies of the muxes don't change (or new muxes appear) then the TV/box should be able to automatically deal with new channels that appear, and old ones that move or disappear on the already known muxes.

My YouView box does, but my 2013 Samsung TV only picks up on deleted channels (flags them in the guide and asks if you want to remove it if you select one), and my 2003 Pioneer DVD/HDR doesn't pick up on any changes.

[cinelli]

All this talk about Channel5 + 1 reminded that Tony Hall, then BBC director general, promised BBC1 + 1 in 2013. But it never happened. Baron Hall of Birkenhead has other things on his plate now.

Cinelli

[mc2fool]

And talking about such things, I see that all the Sony channels (TV, Movies, Movies Action, Movies Classic) have today changed to GREAT! channels ... on my YouView box at least.

[mutantpoodle]

All this talk about Channel5 + 1 reminded that Tony Hall, then BBC director general, promised BBC1 + 1 in 2013. But it never happened. Baron Hall of Birkenhead has other things on his plate now.

Cinelli

he will doubtless get a nice pay off and walk straight into a new role....National Trust is looking for another 'acceptable sort'

[SteelCamel]

I retune when prompted, but logic suggests to me that if a channel moves, then after the change, my TV ought to simply not find the channel on it's old number and therefore display a blank screen or the new channel which has taken the old number rather than continuing to show the original channel.

The reason for that is that the channel numbers aren't "real". To actually find the channel, you need the frequency of the MUX, and the location of the channel within it. That's a rather awkward way to find channels, so they're assigned numbers to make them easier to find.

When you re-tune, the TV checks each possible frequency to see if there's a signal on it, and if so extracts the list of channels. Each channel will have a number, which gets stored along with the frequency. So when you initially tuned, c5+1 was on channel 44, so the TV stored details of the correct frequency under "44". When you type in "44", the TV looks up the frequency and finds c5+1 there. Now, someone decided it should be channel 45, and so changed the channel number. But your TV doesn't care - the frequency didn't change, so it still finds the channel when you type in "44". If you do retune, it will wipe the channel list and scan everything again, and this time it will be told that c5+1 belongs on channel 45, so will dutifully store it under "45" this time.

Now of course if a channel gets deleted, the TV still has the details stored. But you put in the channel number, it goes to the frequency stored, and finds no channel by that name - so you get a blank screen. And if there's a new channel, it's not in your channel list, so you have no way to tell the TV to go there. Then again, should an existing channel change frequency, the TV will fail to find it - it will be looking on the wrong frequency. When you re-tune, it will learn the correct frequency - even though it ends up on the same channel number, so it doesn't appear to you that it moved.
There's also the case that you can receive two transmitters at once. So the TV finds BBC1 claiming channel 1, then later finds another BBC1 also claiming channel 1 - and they can't both be "1", so one of them gets shunted into the 800s. If you're lucky, the one you wanted gets "1" and the one you don't watch gets "801". If you're unlucky, they end up the other way round....

[staffordian]

I retune when prompted, but logic suggests to me that if a channel moves, then after the change, my TV ought to simply not find the channel on it's old number and therefore display a blank screen or the new channel which has taken the old number rather than continuing to show the original channel.

The reason for that is that the channel numbers aren't "real". To actually find the channel, you need the frequency of the MUX, and the location of the channel within it. That's a rather awkward way to find channels, so they're assigned numbers to make them easier to find.

When you re-tune, the TV checks each possible frequency to see if there's a signal on it, and if so extracts the list of channels. Each channel will have a number, which gets stored along with the frequency. So when you initially tuned, c5+1 was on channel 44, so the TV stored details of the correct frequency under "44". When you type in "44", the TV looks up the frequency and finds c5+1 there. Now, someone decided it should be channel 45, and so changed the channel number. But your TV doesn't care - the frequency didn't change, so it still finds the channel when you type in "44". If you do retune, it will wipe the channel list and scan everything again, and this time it will be told that c5+1 belongs on channel 45, so will dutifully store it under "45" this time.

Now of course if a channel gets deleted, the TV still has the details stored. But you put in the channel number, it goes to the frequency stored, and finds no channel by that name - so you get a blank screen. And if there's a new channel, it's not in your channel list, so you have no way to tell the TV to go there. Then again, should an existing channel change frequency, the TV will fail to find it - it will be looking on the wrong frequency. When you re-tune, it will learn the correct frequency - even though it ends up on the same channel number, so it doesn't appear to you that it moved.
There's also the case that you can receive two transmitters at once. So the TV finds BBC1 claiming channel 1, then later finds another BBC1 also claiming channel 1 - and they can't both be "1", so one of them gets shunted into the 800s. If you're lucky, the one you wanted gets "1" and the one you don't watch gets "801". If you're unlucky, they end up the other way round....

Thank you.

Another of life's mysteries solved