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Optimising Battery Life

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mc2fool
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Optimising Battery Life

#417522

Postby mc2fool » June 5th, 2021, 8:15 pm

I recently got myself a new laptop, an Acer Aspire A315-6, and having had it a little while I thought I might as well RTFM, just in case there was anything of interest in it.

So, in the User's Manual p39 under Battery Pack it says:

...the useful lifespan of the battery is adversely affected by the following usage patterns:
• Using the computer on constant AC power.
• Not discharging and recharging the battery to its extremes, as described above.
• Frequent use; the more you use the battery, the faster it will reach the end of its effective life. An embedded battery has a life span of more than 1,000 charge/discharge cycles.

Optimizing battery life helps you get the most out of battery operation, prolonging the charge/recharge cycle and improving recharging
efficiency. You are advised to follow the suggestions set out below:

• Use AC power whenever possible, reserving battery for mobile use.
:
• Excessive recharging decreases the battery life.


and the Regulatory Information and Safety Guide p14 says:

The useful lifespan of a battery is adversely affected by the following behavior:
• Constantly charging the battery/device when already at full capacity.
:
To prevent damage, follow these precautions:
• Stop charging the battery once it reaches 100% capacity; regularly or frequently charging a fully charged battery for an extended period of time may cause battery deformation or damage. We recommend that you recharge the device when the battery level drops below 70% capacity


So ... they recommend I should Use AC power whenever possible but warn me that Using the computer on constant AC power will adversely affect the battery, and recommend that I should recharge the device when the battery level drops below 70% but warn that Not discharging and recharging the battery to its extremes will adversely affect it, and ...

:?

nmdhqbc
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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417542

Postby nmdhqbc » June 5th, 2021, 9:30 pm

My Lenovo Laptop came with software on it which let you set a limit on the charge when plugged in to save the battery. I lost it when it updated to windows 10 though. maybe i could find a windows 10 version somewhere but probably a bit late now since that was years ago. i never use it unplugged anyway.

i like to keep my phone plugged in too when at home but i know it is damaging the battery. don't know why the software does not just have a limit option for charging.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417573

Postby Breelander » June 5th, 2021, 11:12 pm

nmdhqbc wrote:My Lenovo Laptop came with software on it which let you set a limit on the charge when plugged in to save the battery. I lost it when it updated to windows 10 though....


Usually the charging options are a BIOS function and the OEM utility is just there to give you an easier way to change the settings without the need to go into the BIOS, at least that the way it works on my Dell laptops.

Dod101
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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417598

Postby Dod101 » June 6th, 2021, 7:32 am

But the question is 'Why would you constantly charge the battery when already at full capacity?'

Dod

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417607

Postby swill453 » June 6th, 2021, 8:15 am

Dod101 wrote:But the question is 'Why would you constantly charge the battery when already at full capacity?'

That's not the same question as "Why would you leave it plugged in to the mains all the time?"

The laptop should be clever enough to only direct charge at the battery at such times necessary to keep it in optimal condition. It's got a brain the size of a planet, it can work it out for itself.

If I use a laptop mainly at home I don't want to have to faff about connecting/disconnecting it from the mains to keep the battery happy.

Scott.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417610

Postby nmdhqbc » June 6th, 2021, 8:31 am

swill453 wrote:The laptop should be clever enough to only direct charge at the battery at such times necessary to keep it in optimal condition. It's got a brain the size of a planet, it can work it out for itself.


When i leave mine plugged in all the time it stays at 100% which i believe is too high for battery longevity. So it appears like it does not work it out for itself. That is unless what they report as 100% is actually in reality lower? but that would be wasting battery capacity on the occasions you want to go out and about and properly use the battery.

If it does always work itself out then why does the OP quote the manufacturer telling them to not over charge. If the laptop worked it out for itself they would not be telling us not to overcharge. All we can do is unplug it to stop charging so it seems like they are telling us to control it via the plug.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417612

Postby Dod101 » June 6th, 2021, 8:48 am

swill453 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:But the question is 'Why would you constantly charge the battery when already at full capacity?'

That's not the same question as "Why would you leave it plugged in to the mains all the time?"

The laptop should be clever enough to only direct charge at the battery at such times necessary to keep it in optimal condition. It's got a brain the size of a planet, it can work it out for itself.

If I use a laptop mainly at home I don't want to have to faff about connecting/disconnecting it from the mains to keep the battery happy.

Scott.


I agree with all you say. My phone for instance charges very quickly, from about 5/10% to 100% in less than an hour. I charge it at my desk and unplug it when it is charged. For my laptop that is a bit different because I often use it for quite extended periods and I must say I tend to leave it plugged in when doing that. Not sure what I should be doing according to the comments in the OP's post. I assumed that it would stop trying to feed the battery once it was fully charged but it seems not.

Dod

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417615

Postby nmdhqbc » June 6th, 2021, 8:54 am

Dod101 wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Dod101 wrote:But the question is 'Why would you constantly charge the battery when already at full capacity?'

That's not the same question as "Why would you leave it plugged in to the mains all the time?"

The laptop should be clever enough to only direct charge at the battery at such times necessary to keep it in optimal condition. It's got a brain the size of a planet, it can work it out for itself.

If I use a laptop mainly at home I don't want to have to faff about connecting/disconnecting it from the mains to keep the battery happy.

Scott.


I agree with all you say. My phone for instance charges very quickly, from about 5/10% to 100% in less than an hour. I charge it at my desk and unplug it when it is charged. For my laptop that is a bit different because I often use it for quite extended periods and I must say I tend to leave it plugged in when doing that. Not sure what I should be doing according to the comments in the OP's post. I assumed that it would stop trying to feed the battery once it was fully charged but it seems not.

Dod


it does stop trying to feed the battery when it is fully charged. the issue is that sitting fully charged for extended period is not healthy for the battery either. An example where it is done properly is electric vehicles. in them you set the charge % for the car to normally 80-90% most of the time to keep the battery healthy. then when you want to go on a long journey you set it to 100% so the battery is only full when it needs to be. the same should be done for laptops i think and actually it was for my Lenovo before windows 10.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417617

Postby Dod101 » June 6th, 2021, 9:05 am

nmdhqbc wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
swill453 wrote:That's not the same question as "Why would you leave it plugged in to the mains all the time?"

The laptop should be clever enough to only direct charge at the battery at such times necessary to keep it in optimal condition. It's got a brain the size of a planet, it can work it out for itself.

If I use a laptop mainly at home I don't want to have to faff about connecting/disconnecting it from the mains to keep the battery happy.

Scott.


I agree with all you say. My phone for instance charges very quickly, from about 5/10% to 100% in less than an hour. I charge it at my desk and unplug it when it is charged. For my laptop that is a bit different because I often use it for quite extended periods and I must say I tend to leave it plugged in when doing that. Not sure what I should be doing according to the comments in the OP's post. I assumed that it would stop trying to feed the battery once it was fully charged but it seems not.

Dod


it does stop trying to feed the battery when it is fully charged. the issue is that sitting fully charged for extended period is not healthy for the battery either. An example where it is done properly is electric vehicles. in them you set the charge % for the car to normally 80-90% most of the time to keep the battery healthy. then when you want to go on a long journey you set it to 100% so the battery is only full when it needs to be. the same should be done for laptops i think and actually it was for my Lenovo before windows 10.


That is interesting thank you.

Dod

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417623

Postby Itsallaguess » June 6th, 2021, 9:33 am

Dod101 wrote:
But the question is 'Why would you constantly charge the battery when already at full capacity?'


I suspect different people have different usage-patterns when it comes to laptops.

I know some people who move their laptop from their 'home desk' environment so rarely (sometimes never....) that I sometimes think they'd have been better getting an improved desktop environment...

But for those that have a 'hybrid' usage pattern, where they might use their laptops in a 'home desk' environment some of the time, but also want to be confident that where they do move into a more portable-usage phase, their laptop will have the 'most charge available' in the battery to do so at that time, then I can understand why they might wish to keep their laptops plugged in all the time 'whilst at the desk', and so maintaining that 100% battery charge for that future 'portable' phase...

Horses for courses really, and the truth is that the benefits of battery portability generally comes at a cost of non-ideal battery charging cycles - it's just the game we're in when using these types of battery-powered devices I'm afraid, and similarly for things like battery-powered drills etc....

Yes, there's 'things we can do' to extend the lifetimes of these batteries, but those processes may often conflict with the actual usage-patterns that we bought the things for, unfortunately, so it's about finding the individual sweet-spot that suits our own usage patterns whilst maintaining as good a battery-lifetime as possible, within that remit usually...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417632

Postby gryffron » June 6th, 2021, 10:25 am

mc2fool wrote:So ... they recommend I should Use AC power whenever possible but warn me that Using the computer on constant AC power will adversely affect the battery, and recommend that I should recharge the device when the battery level drops below 70% but warn that Not discharging and recharging the battery to its extremes will adversely affect it, and ...

It sounds to me like that is accumulated advice for several generations of battery technology. Not specific advice for any one type.

NiCad needed complete discharge/recharge or their capacity reduced. Li-on work best if kept permanently around 50%, but then they're not exactly doing anything useful :roll:

I would expect ALL modern devices to have fairly clever battery management software built in. Phones, lawnmowers and drills can all manage this, so I'd be disgusted if a modern laptop couldn't decide for itself the best battery management strategy.

Gryff

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417641

Postby Infrasonic » June 6th, 2021, 11:09 am

gryffron wrote:
mc2fool wrote:So ... they recommend I should Use AC power whenever possible but warn me that Using the computer on constant AC power will adversely affect the battery, and recommend that I should recharge the device when the battery level drops below 70% but warn that Not discharging and recharging the battery to its extremes will adversely affect it, and ...

It sounds to me like that is accumulated advice for several generations of battery technology. Not specific advice for any one type.

NiCad needed complete discharge/recharge or their capacity reduced. Li-on work best if kept permanently around 50%, but then they're not exactly doing anything useful :roll:

I would expect ALL modern devices to have fairly clever battery management software built in. Phones, lawnmowers and drills can all manage this, so I'd be disgusted if a modern laptop couldn't decide for itself the best battery management strategy.

Gryff


Agreed.

That disclaimer looks a bit like the ones you get with pretty much all medicines, where they state 'may cause death'...A box ticking cop out.

Plenty of modern IT kit will 'smart charge' and slow down and stop once it gets to an optimal state.

One of the things you do need to be careful of however with generic third party chargers and cables (esp. USB C) - rather than model specific OEM ones - is that they may not have the relevant handshake procedures (or even be wired to accepted standards).

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417645

Postby scrumpyjack » June 6th, 2021, 11:13 am

It's curious, my VW ID 4 recommends I set the maximum charge level to 80% to prolong battery life, and everyone seems to agree that prolongs the life of a Li-Ion battery.

But all the Windows 10 battery management does is minimise consumption of power by the laptop in various ways, it does not seem to do anything to restrict the normal maximum charge level of the battery to 80%, why not?

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417648

Postby gryffron » June 6th, 2021, 11:23 am

scrumpyjack wrote:It's curious, my VW ID 4 recommends I set the maximum charge level to 80% to prolong battery life, and everyone seems to agree that prolongs the life of a Li-Ion battery.
But all the Windows 10 battery management does is minimise consumption of power by the laptop in various ways, it does not seem to do anything to restrict the normal maximum charge level of the battery to 80%, why not?

But as I said the best way to prolong the life of Li-ion, is to keep them at 50% and not use them as batteries. Which isn't really very helpful is it? There's a compromise between maximising battery life and utility of the device in question. Since car batteries are staggeringly expensive, and laptop batteries relatively cheap, the balance of lifetime/utility is likely different.

Gryff

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417660

Postby Infrasonic » June 6th, 2021, 12:00 pm

Another recent trend in laptops of the thin and light variety is soldered batteries - which although not impossible to replace if you are a dab hand with a solder pump and iron will put off 99% of consumers from trying. Coincidental I'm sure...

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417670

Postby nmdhqbc » June 6th, 2021, 1:20 pm

gryffron wrote:I would expect ALL modern devices to have fairly clever battery management software built in. Phones, lawnmowers and drills can all manage this, so I'd be disgusted if a modern laptop couldn't decide for itself the best battery management strategy.


I don't think it's possible for the BMS to know what the right thing to do is without user input. If i sit with my laptop constantly plugged in and never need to actually use the battery then it should keep the battery at a lower state of charge. But if I use it and then want to go out and use the battery all day then it should go to 100% a little while before i want to go out. Or if it's unpredictable maybe a constant 90% SOC would be a good compromise for battery longevity vs. charge available if I go out on a whim. If one user is made of money and is perfectly happy to replace the battery every year then they could decide to just have 100% available at all times.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417682

Postby gryffron » June 6th, 2021, 2:06 pm

nmdhqbc wrote:I don't think it's possible for the BMS to know what the right thing to do is without user input.

Of course. A user who can forward predict their usage can always do a better job. But most people aren't willing to spend their lives micromanaging battery storage. And the technology can pull some clever tricks with multiple battery cells. Like charging some cells fully while others are emptying, or spreading charge evenly, or compensating for faulty/worn cells, or whatever suits that particular battery technology. And I'd expect any modern system to prevent damage from permanent or over charging.

Gryff

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417683

Postby mc2fool » June 6th, 2021, 2:18 pm

Hmmm ... well the replies seem to be as ambiguous as Acer's advice! :lol:

My laptop rarely leaves the house and normally sits in the living room (close to me on the sofa, so I can pick it up and catch up on TLF during the ad breaks on TV ;)), and is almost always plugged into the charger. The only times it needs to go on the battery is when moving to another room, and if that's going to be for a while I'll move the charger with it but if it's only for a relatively short time then I don't bother and just run it off the battery until I return it to the living room.

That was the usage pattern with my previous laptop and it was on its third battery pack in the 9 years I used it, although I did stretch out the first two batteries to the point where they were only giving 15-20 minutes of use before abruptly giving up.

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Re: Optimising Battery Life

#417756

Postby GrahamPlatt » June 6th, 2021, 8:38 pm

Laptops in the past used to have detachable batteries, the principal advantage of which was you could just take it off when running on mains.


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