The Lemon Fool

I'm thinking of going over to the dark side.....

My current internet system (4g with Three) is failing badly, I need to reboot every hour or so to maintain a connection speed much over 1Mb. I have spent the day mounting an aerial at the highest point of the house - a distressingly high 8m up - with no substantial difference.

I can only assume the local mast is heavily overloaded - It's in a very rural area and is shared amongst multiple providers. There is no viable landline broadband here and I need a reliable internet connection to allow me to work.

I have a new router arriving tomorrow just to check the my current router isn't 't dying.
Assuming this isn't the case I am left with very few choices - It looks like Starlink the most promising, although very expensive.

Does anyone else use this system ? Any thoughts or recommendations ?

I take it you've already checked to make sure Three don't have another mast that will give you a better connection?

Do your neighbours use different providers that might give a better connection?

I have quite a good free APP on my phone that locates available masts and gives other info (but only for the SIM in your phone). It's called Network Cell Info Lite"

If your aerial has two cables and your router has two inputs try swapping them over - it will make a difference if they're the wrong way round.

Laughton wrote:I take it you've already checked to make sure Three don't have another mast that will give you a better connection?

Do your neighbours use different providers that might give a better connection?

I have quite a good free APP on my phone that locates available masts and gives other info (but only for the SIM in your phone). It's called Network Cell Info Lite"

If your aerial has two cables and your router has two inputs try swapping them over - it will make a difference if they're the wrong way round.

I live in the middle of no-where Northern Ireland, There is only one mast within 20 Miles, all the mobile providers share it. What I don't know is how the mast bandwidth is shared between the different providers. It may be that paying more to another provider may increase my "cut". Could be worth trying another providers SIM for a month...

I wasn't aware that cable swapping could make a difference, I'll give it a try tomorrow - Thanks

PhaseThree wrote:I'm thinking of going over to the dark side.....

My current internet system (4g with Three) is failing badly, I need to reboot every hour or so to maintain a connection speed much over 1Mb. I have spent the day mounting an aerial at the highest point of the house - a distressingly high 8m up - with no substantial difference.

I can only assume the local mast is heavily overloaded - It's in a very rural area and is shared amongst multiple providers. There is no viable landline broadband here and I need a reliable internet connection to allow me to work.

I have a new router arriving tomorrow just to check the my current router isn't 't dying.
Assuming this isn't the case I am left with very few choices - It looks like Starlink the most promising, although very expensive.

Does anyone else use this system ? Any thoughts or recommendations ?

Hi P3,

I've had a [very huge] glass of wine. Will a dongle help? Or am I just talking rubbish?

https://www.moneysupermarket.com/broadb ... d/dongles/

My technical knowledge is as good as my recognition of cheese, which is all yellow or blue.

AiY(D)

PhaseThree wrote:

Laughton wrote:I take it you've already checked to make sure Three don't have another mast that will give you a better connection?

Do your neighbours use different providers that might give a better connection?

I have quite a good free APP on my phone that locates available masts and gives other info (but only for the SIM in your phone). It's called Network Cell Info Lite"

If your aerial has two cables and your router has two inputs try swapping them over - it will make a difference if they're the wrong way round.

I live in the middle of no-where Northern Ireland, There is only one mast within 20 Miles, all the mobile providers share it. What I don't know is how the mast bandwidth is shared between the different providers. It may be that paying more to another provider may increase my "cut". Could be worth trying another providers SIM for a month...

I wasn't aware that cable swapping could make a difference, I'll give it a try tomorrow - Thanks

Cables are the first thing to check!
Even if they're inserted in the right place they can develop faults in the connector very easily (depending on the type they're often just compression contacts - over time that can break apart, get damaged, tugged, oxidised, fall apart, you get the gist)
If it used to work, and they haven't built a huge big concrete block between you and the transmitter in the interim, check the cables; try a short replacement you know works if you can.

servodude wrote:

PhaseThree wrote:

Laughton wrote:I take it you've already checked to make sure Three don't have another mast that will give you a better connection?

Do your neighbours use different providers that might give a better connection?

I have quite a good free APP on my phone that locates available masts and gives other info (but only for the SIM in your phone). It's called Network Cell Info Lite"

If your aerial has two cables and your router has two inputs try swapping them over - it will make a difference if they're the wrong way round.

I live in the middle of no-where Northern Ireland, There is only one mast within 20 Miles, all the mobile providers share it. What I don't know is how the mast bandwidth is shared between the different providers. It may be that paying more to another provider may increase my "cut". Could be worth trying another providers SIM for a month...

I wasn't aware that cable swapping could make a difference, I'll give it a try tomorrow - Thanks

Cables are the first thing to check!
Even if they're inserted in the right place they can develop faults in the connector very easily (depending on the type they're often just compression contacts - over time that can break apart, get damaged, tugged, oxidised, fall apart, you get the gist)
If it used to work, and they haven't built a huge big concrete block between you and the transmitter in the interim, check the cables; try a short replacement you know works if you can.

With the 4g system I have it is possible to access the wireless network metrics (RSRQ,RSRP SINR etc). I have rechecked these this morning and everything looks very healthy. This implies good cable connectivity to the aerials and to the router itself via Ethernet. All things being equal the fact that I can go from a very low data rate connection to a far higher rate just by remotely rebooting the router would indicate a deeper issue.

I found a refurbished 4g Cat18 router on Amazon of a far more modern vintage than my current router, should be arriving today and will let be do some swap testing to rule out any hardware issues on my side.

PhaseThree wrote:

servodude wrote:

PhaseThree wrote:

Laughton wrote:I take it you've already checked to make sure Three don't have another mast that will give you a better connection?

Do your neighbours use different providers that might give a better connection?

I have quite a good free APP on my phone that locates available masts and gives other info (but only for the SIM in your phone). It's called Network Cell Info Lite"

If your aerial has two cables and your router has two inputs try swapping them over - it will make a difference if they're the wrong way round.

I live in the middle of no-where Northern Ireland, There is only one mast within 20 Miles, all the mobile providers share it. What I don't know is how the mast bandwidth is shared between the different providers. It may be that paying more to another provider may increase my "cut". Could be worth trying another providers SIM for a month...

I wasn't aware that cable swapping could make a difference, I'll give it a try tomorrow - Thanks

Cables are the first thing to check!
Even if they're inserted in the right place they can develop faults in the connector very easily (depending on the type they're often just compression contacts - over time that can break apart, get damaged, tugged, oxidised, fall apart, you get the gist)
If it used to work, and they haven't built a huge big concrete block between you and the transmitter in the interim, check the cables; try a short replacement you know works if you can.

With the 4g system I have it is possible to access the wireless network metrics (RSRQ,RSRP SINR etc). I have rechecked these this morning and everything looks very healthy. This implies good cable connectivity to the aerials and to the router itself via Ethernet. All things being equal the fact that I can go from a very low data rate connection to a far higher rate just by remotely rebooting the router would indicate a deeper issue.

I found a refurbished 4g Cat18 router on Amazon of a far more modern vintage than my current router, should be arriving today and will let be do some swap testing to rule out any hardware issues on my side.

I wouldn't rule out intermittent antenna/cabling connection yet.

I'm assuming it's a router/modem?

Generally they will adjust the external sync rate downwards as the line quality experiences problems - and not been upwards when things improve. This will leave you with the result that rebooting will temporarily improve the connection speed; a classic way this can happen is an outside connection that's not water proofed properly getting messed up when it rains.

PhaseThree wrote:There is no viable landline broadband here

Have you looked at Wimax/microwave options? A friend organised a Wimax service for his local community - he hosts the transmitter on his farm and AIUI he gets free internet in return. And I've used a microwave service in the remote Highlands where previously there was only ropy satellite options and it's great - it was paid for out of the community benefit money from a windfarm.

So based on a quick Google, it might be worth talking to the likes of Bluebox, Airfibre and Beacon?

Hallucigenia wrote:

PhaseThree wrote:There is no viable landline broadband here

Have you looked at Wimax/microwave options? A friend organised a Wimax service for his local community - he hosts the transmitter on his farm and AIUI he gets free internet in return. And I've used a microwave service in the remote Highlands where previously there was only ropy satellite options and it's great - it was paid for out of the community benefit money from a windfarm.

So based on a quick Google, it might be worth talking to the likes of Bluebox, Airfibre and Beacon?

Good point - I contacted Beacon a few years ago, They told me I was too remote at the time and that they would contact me if they ever got this far.
I don't know of anyone using WiMax in the area but a call to Airfibre and Bluebox would certainly be a sensible next step.

PhaseThree wrote:Good point - I contacted Beacon a few years ago, They told me I was too remote at the time and that they would contact me if they ever got this far.
I don't know of anyone using WiMax in the area but a call to Airfibre and Bluebox would certainly be a sensible next step.

My friend is with County Broadband, I see that at some point they've moved from local Wimax hotspots to individual microwave links - certainly my experience of microwave has been great, at least equal in speed to the FTTC at home.

Just putting a suitably remote part of NI (Carnanreagh, BT47) into the official Ofcom checker comes back with no landline options and EE as the only fixed wireless option, have you tried them?

There does seem quite a "push" (and funding) to fill in "notspots", so it may be a question of talking to microwave companies and seeing if you can get some kind of grant to fund the hardware costs - as well as windmills, landfill companies can be another source of community benefit funding.

Hallucigenia wrote:

PhaseThree wrote:Good point - I contacted Beacon a few years ago, They told me I was too remote at the time and that they would contact me if they ever got this far.
I don't know of anyone using WiMax in the area but a call to Airfibre and Bluebox would certainly be a sensible next step.

My friend is with County Broadband, I see that at some point they've moved from local Wimax hotspots to individual microwave links - certainly my experience of microwave has been great, at least equal in speed to the FTTC at home.

Just putting a suitably remote part of NI (Carnanreagh, BT47) into the official Ofcom checker comes back with no landline options and EE as the only fixed wireless option, have you tried them?

There does seem quite a "push" (and funding) to fill in "notspots", so it may be a question of talking to microwave companies and seeing if you can get some kind of grant to fund the hardware costs - as well as windmills, landfill companies can be another source of community benefit funding.

It seems I am sufficiently remote that my address doesn't appear on the Ofcom system !! Further away shows either very slow landline (0.5Mbit) or EE as options - pretty much as expected. Unfortunately EE is a shared mast with the Three service I'm having problems with.

I will call around the Wimax and microwave suppliers in the area (if any), But to be honest Starlink is looking like a good option at the moment.

You can get commercial grade active aerials with high gain that might help with the 4/5G signal strength to a distant tower.
Three and EE have the first and second highest allocation of 700MHz.

It might even be worth paying a specialist consultant to have a look at your whole situation before committing to Starlink, they seem keen on regular price increases...

It's been quite a few years. But I seem to recollect the cost of satellite-based internet having dropped radically, making it a decent option once you've forked up one-off installation costs. And a somewhat-competitive market.

It might even be worth checking whether there's a slush fund somewhere of grant funding to help with that installation cost in spots with no other options.

Infrasonic wrote:You can get commercial grade active aerials with high gain that might help with the 4/5G signal strength to a distant tower.
Three and EE have the first and second highest allocation of 700MHz.

It might even be worth paying a specialist consultant to have a look at your whole situation before committing to Starlink, they seem keen on regular price increases...

Worth noting that a higher gain antenna needs more careful orientation (normally their coverage can be considered squashed vertically) - so while they can be a great solution, they're less plug and play

PhaseThree wrote:Unfortunately EE is a shared mast with the Three service I'm having problems with.

Don't quote me, but I have a vague memory that the fixed wireless contracts are meant to have a lower contention ratio than normal mobile, so it still might work better even on the same mast. Only way to see is to try it.

UncleEbenezer wrote:It's been quite a few years. But I seem to recollect the cost of satellite-based internet having dropped radically, making it a decent option once you've forked up one-off installation costs.

This place in the Highlands used to have "traditional" satellite broadband before the microwave arrived and it really wasn't great despite being a reasonably good (and expensive!) package for the time - overall experience was something like a flaky 3G signal with pretty limited GB allowance. I can imagine they've had to up their game in response to Starlink, but as of 3-4 years ago it was a desperation purchase only.

Starlink have just announced price cuts around the world, probably as a response to the inflation situation to retain customers.
They're using PPP to work out the country specific discounts, and it may well be reversed when we start to see more normal economic times...

They've also just announced a collaboration with T-mobile in the USA, so combining satellite with 4/5G services may start to become a reality - although the early services are going to more text/emergency based, VOIP will added later apparently.

Infrasonic wrote:Starlink have just announced price cuts around the world, probably as a response to the inflation situation to retain customers.
They're using PPP to work out the country specific discounts, and it may well be reversed when we start to see more normal economic times...

They've also just announced a collaboration with T-mobile in the USA, so combining satellite with 4/5G services may start to become a reality - although the early services are going to more text/emergency based, VOIP will added later apparently.

The price drop is real in the UK. The website is now showing a cost of £75/mo with a one-time hardware cost of £460. This was £89/mo with a one time hardware cost of £529.
Happy days, now a more serious contender for me.

I thought prices had come down well below that!

Googling "satellite broadband", I see £25/month and others in that ballpark. Though I haven't researched what you get for that.

UncleEbenezer wrote:I thought prices had come down well below that!

Googling "satellite broadband", I see £25/month and others in that ballpark. Though I haven't researched what you get for that.

There's two kinds of satellite broadband. The "classic" satellite broadband uses a geostationary satellite, and a dish (like a satellite TV dish) that you have to install pointed at the satellite. Speeds are fairly low, you tend to have a low-ish data cap, and latency is terrible (since you've got a round trip to geostationary orbit) so useless for gaming. It used to be horribly expensive but has got a lot cheaper.

The new generation like Starlink uses satellites in low earth orbit. The satellites are barely outside the atmosphere so much nearer - latency is much lower and as the signal is stronger you don't need such a big antenna. However as the satellites are moving in the sky, you need a sophisticated base station that can track them - which is done by electronic means not physically moving the antenna. And of course it needs a lot more satellites. The upside of having lots of satellites, though, is that each one serves a smaller area so more capacity is available - so you can get higher speeds and higher (or no) data caps.

Live Starlink satellite mapping here...https://satellitemap.space/