Death of the cloud?

[Infrasonic]

Even with redundancy you can still get issues.

In the last week or so I had incoming call issues because 3 had UK wide network issues that went on for several days. I could hear the caller, they couldn't hear me.

The incoming calls were important, from the Registrar, a funeral director etc...

My secondary phone network Vodafone (Lebara MVNO SIM) also had some more minor issues at the same time, so for one day both phones were playing up with urgent incoming calls.
I had to keep turning both phones on and off via restarts as the (multiple) network issues were getting 'resolved' (according to the networks X/Twitter feeds).

If you keep an eye on downdetector you'll see that there are overlapping outages with Microsoft, Google, AWS hosting (Amazon) on a semi regular basis which occasionally will mean you might not have access to any of the big online ecosystems at the same time.

Many years ago my main current account banks online systems went out for several days at the start of the month, so no S/O or DD's were going out. I had to get cash advances from my branch (remember those?...) and go round paying them into various banks to cover all the bills...

These days I have more than one current account, physical DC / CC etc. plus Google Wallet on my phones and Pixel 2 smart watch.

I still get paper tickets for train travel as they have too many get out clauses for the apps...

[XFool]

The trouble is, as the OP is complaining about, that this IS day to day life.
If you don't consider redundancy and backup methods it WILL bite you in the A*^&.

Live in the dark ages using cash only? Many places won't accept it.

I don't think the choices are that stark.

I repeat, this IS day to day life for the majority of people in the UK.

Perhaps the problem here is people swallowing what is described as "convenient"? My question is: Convenient for WHOM?

I like convenience: As long as it is convenience for ME.

Nowadays many things are described as "convenient". But generally, what that all too often means is that it's "convenient" to the companies who are promoting such "convenience". What I want to know is: Is is "convenient" to me?

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

RFID enabled credit cards, "convenient"? NOT to me they aren't. So RFID has been disabled on my credit card, by me. NOW it is "convenient". To ME.

I don't even find Direct Debits "convenient".

[GoSeigen]

It's good that we have some uber-geeks on this forum, just as it's good that some of us have fairly deep knowledge of how our cars work, but it shouldn't be necessary for day-to-day life

V8

The trouble is, as the OP is complaining about, that this IS day to day life.
If you don't consider redundancy and backup methods it WILL bite you in the A*^&.

On the CC thread someone remarked about credit cards being lost in ATM's when abroad. Another of needing to phone the bank from the other side of the world. In both cases they had alternatives, because they had considered the issue.

My daughter had terrible issues when she lost her phone. Given the prevalence of SIM 2FA, it can be difficult to request a new SIM having lost your phone. It is after all a known exploit to drain peoples bank accounts. Her only access to email was.... on the lost phone.

My son had problems receiving txt's about job interviews, because his phone was 3g and the network turned the signal off.

Live in the dark ages using cash only? Many places won't accept it.

I repeat, this IS day to day life for the majority of people in the UK.

For once I agree with Urbandreamer.

Also he's maybe the only poster who fully got the point of the OP? Have a rec!


Thanks everyone else for the help. I'm not actually useless at IT. I worked on the nuts and bolts of 3G myself so should have a good idea how things work. Urbandreamer hit the nail on the head: it's not that I can't solve the problem, or didn't in some obscure way bring it on myself (sorry, no, we don't have three phones each for minimal redundancy...); it's that these issues are becoming an daily reality for vast numbers of people.

I wonder how long our patience will last...


GS

[XFool]

More "convenience":

Revealed: car industry was warned keyless vehicles vulnerable to theft a decade ago

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/24/revealed-car-industry-was-warned-keyless-vehicles-vulnerable-to-theft-a-decade-ago

Experts ​alerted motor trade to security risks of ‘smart key’ systems which have now fuelled highest level of car thefts for a decade

"The industry was warned of research that car owners could “expect to find their cars stolen in the future without any sign of entry.”

An increase in vehicle crime with keyless entry has contributed to record prices for car insurance, with some drivers now facing quotes of more than £2,000 a year or more to insure their car. Car theft in England and Wales in the year to March 2023 was at its highest level for more than a decade."

[Urbandreamer]

More "convenience":

Revealed: car industry was warned keyless vehicles vulnerable to theft a decade ago

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/24/revealed-car-industry-was-warned-keyless-vehicles-vulnerable-to-theft-a-decade-ago

And of course less vulnerable than decades before. Anyone else remember Fords that you could open with ANY key? Even a house key! I do. Remember when immobilizers became standard?

Look, the issue is what you need to do to cope with the world as it is.

I was in a pub on Thursday that only took card or mobile phone payment. The terminal that I was offered didn't seen to have anywhere to insert a card (from memory), so contactless payments only. Next time I'm there I'll ask about chip-n-pin, but I know that they don't accept cash.

I haven't bought a new car, but can you buy one without keyless entry?
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answ ... ess-entry-

Many car parks don't accept cash.

The real world today is as it is, not how it use to be.

[Infrasonic]

...The real world today is as it is, not how it use to be.

Exactly - the reason we are at the stage where more and more robust 2FA methods are being needed like FIDO2 hardware keys is because the criminals are getting smarter exponentially and have been circumventing the lower barriers to entry like SMS/email for years.

Yes it's all a massive PITA setting it all up and updating systems when yet another 2FA avenue gets compromised, but if one is potentially facing being cleaned out financially then you have to deal with reality at some point.

I'd rather try and keep the odds in my favour.

[kempiejon]

I like FIDO, I don't think my banks use them and now my usb key doesn't fit in my new usb-c slots. Didn't know I should be on v2.0. I have to use card readers and keys, apps on my ipad, email and SMS. Quite a faff being a different solution for most every different institution. I used to have internet banking aggregators, Egg Money and a similar software solution Ewise, both discontinued and probably insecure. I used to trust my bank to keep everything secure now I'm apparently part of the problem and solution. Sheesh, still I'd not go back to in-person banking.
I still use cash, probably more than average, so rue its inevitable decline.

[Infrasonic]

...now my usb key doesn't fit in my new usb-c slots...

Just buy USB A to C adapters (plugs or short cables) - the keys will still work. If you buy the newer USB C keys buy some C to A adapters for legacy use.

It also helps protect the connectors/sockets if you have an adapter or rubber dummy plug inserted during transport in pockets/bags which tend to be full of lint and other c*ap. Loads of options on Amazon et al.

[kempiejon]

...now my usb key doesn't fit in my new usb-c slots...

Just buy USB A to C adapters (plugs or short cables) - the keys will still work. If you buy the newer USB C keys buy some C to A adapters for legacy use.

It also helps protect the connectors/sockets if you have an adapter or rubber dummy plug inserted during transport in pockets/bags which tend to be full of lint and other c*ap. Loads of options on Amazon et al.

Thank you, I am aware of adaptors. That's how I use it on those devices with only C, it also has a cap for fluff and mechanical protection. The hardware can become old as quickly as the software sometimes. I had to upgrade to a new device when my working ipad mini's OS was no longer compatible with my Virgin banking's newest iteration of their app, Virgin had previously ditched support for a PC interface.

[Urbandreamer]

Thank you, I am aware of adaptors. That's how I use it on those devices with only C, it also has a cap for fluff and mechanical protection. The hardware can become old as quickly as the software sometimes. I had to upgrade to a new device when my working ipad mini's OS was no longer compatible with my Virgin banking's newest iteration of their app, Virgin had previously ditched support for a PC interface.

Ah, the joys of actually using something. When it no longer works, you find that you actually DID use it, and need to replace it.

Bah humbug.

“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they’d all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."

[Infrasonic]

Just buy USB A to C adapters (plugs or short cables) - the keys will still work. If you buy the newer USB C keys buy some C to A adapters for legacy use.

It also helps protect the connectors/sockets if you have an adapter or rubber dummy plug inserted during transport in pockets/bags which tend to be full of lint and other c*ap. Loads of options on Amazon et al.

Thank you, I am aware of adaptors. That's how I use it on those devices with only C, it also has a cap for fluff and mechanical protection. The hardware can become old as quickly as the software sometimes. I had to upgrade to a new device when my working ipad mini's OS was no longer compatible with my Virgin banking's newest iteration of their app, Virgin had previously ditched support for a PC interface.

Yep - another downside of all the hardware/software technology we now have to rely on for security is that effective OS/app support lifecycles become an issue, even if the device still works perfectly fine. As long as the home LAN router is watertight and still getting firmware updates(...) then demoting devices to non internet use can still make them live purposeful lives until retirement...

[kempiejon]

Yep - another downside of all the hardware/software technology we now have to rely on for security is that effective OS/app support lifecycles become an issue, even if the device still works perfectly fine. As long as the home LAN router is watertight and still getting firmware updates(...) then demoting devices to non internet use can still make them live purposeful lives until retirement...

And it keeps the miners mining and the factories cruising along, I can now use the ipad as a timer in the kitchen. Brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to...

[1nvest]

Another thing that alarms me is that banks implement these amazing whizzy 2FA/passcode generating devices/phone apps that produce security codes to make their desktop websites Fort-Knox-level secure, yet their phone apps have the flimsiest of security. Some of my financial apps (issued by Halifax) require just three letters from my password to access them! Others only require a slightly longer password. I suppose there is a way to force entry of more security information at login but how many people would do that? They obviously prefer ease of use.


This is something of a rant but back in the early 2010s I predicted that cloud services would mature and then become stale and people would return to' stand-alone systems again. I'm wondering if that day is rapidly approaching now...

GS

Don't worry about it, after all its not your money anyway. When others know where all your wealth/money is, and track your movements, issues (your searches) and thoughts (online activities/profiling) ... its just a conformant citizen loan.

Since 2009 Intel systems have incorporated 'internal management engines', I think it was 2013 before AMD were pressured into also doing so. Another 'cpu' that runs and can communicate even when the device is powered off.

Banks nowadays report all transactions to the state, pressured into such under a report all suspicious activities or otherwise risk losing your licence. All of your web searches, online activities, voice calls are recorded. All of your movements are equally tracked. Some cities are now even starting to take multiple snapshots of the entire city every second, so that there's visibility to back/forward track from/to a particular instant in time.

When you live in a Open Prison, security serves the best interest of others.

Cloud wise and that's moving to be more modular. Small but powerful individual units, each good at one particular task, and where a 'system' is a combination of such. Some of which may be self-served/managed. Even a small pi type device these days is capable of serving as a graphics server, or attach a storage device and be used as a data server, or you can rent remote alternatives where someone else does all of the admin/upgrading.

[1nvest]

I like FIDO

Haven't used my FIDO point address for quite a while now. Tend to read through messages online nowadays now that its not costing per minute

[didds]

...
Look, the issue is what you need to do to cope with the world as it is.

I was in a pub on Thursday that only took card or mobile phone payment.
...
Many car parks don't accept cash.
...

.

These are all in part a case of "be careful what you wish for".

Banks charge businesses to bank cash - to amongst other reasons underwrite the costs of free private banking. So SOME businesses find it cheaper to use digital money and not pay to bank cash.

Add to that bank branches closing "to save money" - all part of keeping costs down which as part of a set of things helps keep private banking free. Businesses maybe don't want to drive many miles to a branch of their bank to deposit cash. So SOME businesses find it less hassle to use digital money and not take time to bank cash.

If theives didnt target car park machines for theft then maybe such machines would continue to take cash - or if we all accept far higher car ap[kring charges to pay (and protect?) car park machine cash emptiers ...

Its all cause and effect in one way shape or form.

[Julian]

More "convenience":
I was in a pub on Thursday that only took card or mobile phone payment. The terminal that I was offered didn't seen to have anywhere to insert a card (from memory), so contactless payments only. Next time I'm there I'll ask about chip-n-pin, but I know that they don't accept cash.
...
The real world today is as it is, not how it use to be.

At least in the early days contactless used to have a per-transaction limit and (crucially for this discussion) some level of protection against stolen cards by randomly flagging the occasional transaction and requiring that the PIN was entered. I'm pretty sure that the contactless transaction limit is still there albeit massively increased since the original (£10?) limit. I'm not sure however whether the the mechanism to occasionally reverify card holder identity by requiring a PIN. Does anyone know if that is still a thing? If it is then I would assume that all contactless machines have some way to accept a PIN although admittedly that doesn't imply that they also have a card slot.

For light relief, there is a dystopian future (an unlikely one I hope) where things could get even worse. I'm about the biggest technology enthusiast that you could possibly meet but even this would be a step too far for me ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8RXgFDbA4

- Julian

[Howard]

Also he's maybe the only poster who fully got the point of the OP? Have a rec!


Thanks everyone else for the help. I'm not actually useless at IT. I worked on the nuts and bolts of 3G myself so should have a good idea how things work. Urbandreamer hit the nail on the head: it's not that I can't solve the problem, or didn't in some obscure way bring it on myself (sorry, no, we don't have three phones each for minimal redundancy...); it's that these issues are becoming an daily reality for vast numbers of people.

I wonder how long our patience will last...


GS

I agree with your point as well. As a result of bitter experience.

Using a Windows 11 laptop to run a film (over 3GB file) using a projector in our local community. The file was on the hard drive but just before the start Onedrive decided to sync the video file. Black screen of death for about 4 minutes! And then it closed the audio connection to the PA system. Luckily I had brought a Bluetooth speaker just in case.

As I understand it, W11 won't allow Onedrive to be switched off, even though I don't use 365 but have a stand alone copy of Office. Microsoft then had the effrontery to tell me that my free Onedrive allowance was nearly full and I needed to pay for more storage.

When I got home I deleted the Onedrive file, only to find that this deleted all my synced document files on my Windows 10 desktop!

Luckily I had just backed up these on old-fashioned USB stick.

Lessons learnt, delete Onedrive from W10 machine, don't forget to switch on airplane mode for W11 laptop if using with projector to stop link to cloud. And trusty USB backup is well worth doing every week or two - only takes a couple of minutes.

regards

Howard

[Infrasonic]

...I'm not sure however whether the the mechanism to occasionally reverify card holder identity by requiring a PIN. Does anyone know if that is still a thing? If it is then I would assume that all contactless machines have some way to accept a PIN although admittedly that doesn't imply that they also have a card slot...
- Julian

I still have to insert the card and type in my pin code every now and again if using a contactless card (although I mostly use Google Wallet via my watch these days), and the per transaction limit raise can be lowered with the bank if you are not comfortable with it (from what I remember of its introduction).

[kempiejon]

...I'm not sure however whether the the mechanism to occasionally reverify card holder identity by requiring a PIN. Does anyone know if that is still a thing? If it is then I would assume that all contactless machines have some way to accept a PIN although admittedly that doesn't imply that they also have a card slot...
- Julian

I still have to insert the card and type in my pin code every now and again if using a contactless card (although I mostly use Google Wallet via my watch these days), and the per transaction limit raise can be lowered with the bank if you are not comfortable with it (from what I remember of its introduction).

Yarp, me to. I did get a bit freaked that the transaction was declined but the operative at the check out told me I just had to stick the card in and enter my PIN.
I think it was Covid time when the limit was raised to £50, conveniently as my local brewery was doing a contactless drive through service and their 20 pint half pins were £49.99

[Infrasonic]

I agree with your point as well. As a result of bitter experience.

Using a Windows 11 laptop to run a film (over 3GB file) using a projector in our local community. The file was on the hard drive but just before the start Onedrive decided to sync the video file. Black screen of death for about 4 minutes! And then it closed the audio connection to the PA system. Luckily I had brought a Bluetooth speaker just in case.

As I understand it, W11 won't allow Onedrive to be switched off, even though I don't use 365 but have a stand alone copy of Office. Microsoft then had the effrontery to tell me that my free Onedrive allowance was nearly full and I needed to pay for more storage.

When I got home I deleted the Onedrive file, only to find that this deleted all my synced document files on my Windows 10 desktop!

Luckily I had just backed up these on old-fashioned USB stick.

Lessons learnt, delete Onedrive from W10 machine, don't forget to switch on airplane mode for W11 laptop if using with projector to stop link to cloud. And trusty USB backup is well worth doing every week or two - only takes a couple of minutes.

regards

Howard

If you set up a 'local account' on W10/11 my understanding is that OneDrive and other MS services are inoperable. You can have the default Microsoft account as the admin and a local account with limited features co-existing on the one machine...https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-set ... al-account

It's also possible to run bloat free windows OS images of W10/11 which have auto updates and syncs turned off. They aren't officially supported by MS and I wouldn't run one on my main machine but they could be a decent option if you have an older PC with limited hardware specs that can be run bare bones as a media player etc. - or put Linux on it...