The Lemon Fool

tjh290633 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:I've pretty much lost the radio habit, TBH. We have three DAB radios in the house - one in a fairly decent hifi receiver (Denon), one in the cheapo unit in my office, and the third one a standalone portable. And we can't get a signal on any of them, except perhaps for a few pop stations on the south side of the house.

DAB on the car radio doesn't work at all on our local roads, although FM is (almost) acceptable. I believe you still need a line of sight for DAB reception, which can be a bit of a deal-breaker in even semi-rural parts. And we're not exactly mountain country here in west Wilts, just rolling hills with the Mendip transmitter 20 miles away.

I guess it must be the line of pylons a mile from our place? Although that doesn't stop terrestrial TV, which is pretty good if we use a signal amplifier. I guess I ought to look into fixing the signal, but somehow I always have more important things to do.

BJ

I have a DAB set in my office upstairs at home and there is DAB on the car radio. The office one has 3 channels preset by me, R3, R4 and 5 Live Sports Extra. I now cannot find any other stations. The car radio can only find stations that I do not wish to hear, and only R1 of the main channels. Perhaps I need to go to the top of Ditching Beacon and try tuning it there.

TJH

I'm in West Sussex. R3,4 Classic give me all I need, though I have recently added Times radio (hardly ever used). That's DAB in the car.

Funny thing about bluetooth and my car with Android auto....if I don't do something active to stop it, at some point after a few minutes it will start playing whatever I was last listening to on the phone - usually catching up on the Archers.

Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:Funny thing about bluetooth and my car with Android auto....if I don't do something active to stop it, at some point after a few minutes it will start playing whatever I was last listening to on the phone - usually catching up on the Archers.

Arb.

I think that's an individual app setting thing. Autoplay or similar.....

chas49 wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:Funny thing about bluetooth and my car with Android auto....if I don't do something active to stop it, at some point after a few minutes it will start playing whatever I was last listening to on the phone - usually catching up on the Archers.

Arb.

I think that's an individual app setting thing. Autoplay or similar.....

I expect so - but you know how it is; one jumps in the car and just drives it without having time to stop and fiddle.

Talking of radio, this weekend is significant for Radio 4, and I’m not talking about the schedule changes, for example the moving of Desert Island Discs on Sunday morning. The daily religious service and Yesterday in Parliament on long wave has ended and probably the broadcasting of Radio 4 on long wave will soon come to an end.

Long wave broadcasting may be thought an anachronism in this digital age but I have a fondness for it. I have listened on this medium all my life. I have spent innumerable hours listening to test cricket commentaries and sometimes it is convenient to listen on a portable radio without a telescopic aerial. I understand a single transmitter in Droitwich covers nearly the whole country and the signal is reliable, something you can’t say about either FM or DAB. I believe the broadcasting of Radio 4 on long wave depends on large valves which are no longer manufactured.

Cinelli

cinelli wrote:Talking of radio, this weekend is significant for Radio 4, and I’m not talking about the schedule changes, for example the moving of Desert Island Discs on Sunday morning. The daily religious service and Yesterday in Parliament on long wave has ended and probably the broadcasting of Radio 4 on long wave will soon come to an end.

Long wave broadcasting may be thought an anachronism in this digital age but I have a fondness for it. I have listened on this medium all my life. I have spent innumerable hours listening to test cricket commentaries and sometimes it is convenient to listen on a portable radio without a telescopic aerial. I understand a single transmitter in Droitwich covers nearly the whole country and the signal is reliable, something you can’t say about either FM or DAB. I believe the broadcasting of Radio 4 on long wave depends on large valves which are no longer manufactured.

Cinelli

Mention of Radio 4 long wave generates fond memories of my first venture into electronics, building a crystal set radio back in the 50's. A coil, a capacitor, a diode and some headphones. Makes FM and DAB seem way over-complicated.

--kiloran

I bought a Denon hifi unit with DAB and the DAB packed in just outside the guarantee period. Apparently this is a common problem with Denon.

So I then fished out the old Sony Dab hi fi separate & hooked it up to the back of the Denon unit. This worked for a while, until they switched the DAB channels I listened to to DAB+.

Since then, I've either used my portable DAB radios, ALL of which still work, or the internet.

I need to sort something out for DAB on the car, as I gather they have stopped Test Match Special coverage on LW .

tjh290633 wrote:I have a DAB set in my office upstairs at home and there is DAB on the car radio. The office one has 3 channels preset by me, R3, R4 and 5 Live Sports Extra. I now cannot find any other stations. The car radio can only find stations that I do not wish to hear, and only R1 of the main channels. Perhaps I need to go to the top of Ditching Beacon and try tuning it there.

TJH

Basically, DAB radio coverage has never been as good as FM in the UK. The BBC set up the original FM transmitters in the 1950s and acheived a coverage of over 99% (this was based on having an external aerial 30 feet above the ground). Digital has never reached such levels, BBC national channels 98%, Digital One 91.5% and Sound Digital 83% for commercial stations.

To find other digital stations it is a good idea to re-scan the radio from time to time, as new stations do appear and others are dropped. If it is a reception problem try moving the radio so it has a clear view towards the transmitter. The ultimate is an external aerial, which can be used with some radios i.e. Ruark.

It is not clear what is wrong with your car radio, if you can get R1 you shoud be able to get the other BBC national stations. Again try a re-scan.

The difference between DAB and DAB+ is that DAB+ uses a more efficent encoding system aacPLUS whereas DAB encodes using MP2. This means that more stations can be fitted into the same broadcast bandwidth. If you are happy with DAB there is really no pressing need to rush out and buy DAB+ enabled radios. In anycase many existing radios can already decode DAB+, I know that almost all Ruark radios made since 2010 can decode DAB+. Do a re-scan and see if Classic FM changes from DAB to DAB+.

Grumpsimus wrote:

tjh290633 wrote:I have a DAB set in my office upstairs at home and there is DAB on the car radio. The office one has 3 channels preset by me, R3, R4 and 5 Live Sports Extra. I now cannot find any other stations. The car radio can only find stations that I do not wish to hear, and only R1 of the main channels. Perhaps I need to go to the top of Ditching Beacon and try tuning it there.

TJH

Basically, DAB radio coverage has never been as good as FM in the UK. The BBC set up the original FM transmitters in the 1950s and acheived a coverage of over 99% (this was based on having an external aerial 30 feet above the ground). Digital has never reached such levels, BBC national channels 98%, Digital One 91.5% and Sound Digital 83% for commercial stations.

To find other digital stations it is a good idea to re-scan the radio from time to time, as new stations do appear and others are dropped. If it is a reception problem try moving the radio so it has a clear view towards the transmitter. The ultimate is an external aerial, which can be used with some radios i.e. Ruark.

It is not clear what is wrong with your car radio, if you can get R1 you shoud be able to get the other BBC national stations. Again try a re-scan.

The difference between DAB and DAB+ is that DAB+ uses a more efficent encoding system aacPLUS whereas DAB encodes using MP2. This means that more stations can be fitted into the same broadcast bandwidth. If you are happy with DAB there is really no pressing need to rush out and buy DAB+ enabled radios. In anycase many existing radios can already decode DAB+, I know that almost all Ruark radios made since 2010 can decode DAB+. Do a re-scan and see if Classic FM changes from DAB to DAB+.

I have tried retuning several times. The problem may be that we are midway between two transmitters, Midhurst and Heathfield. As I said, going to the top of the Downs may help.

TJH

Grumpsimus wrote:
The difference between DAB and DAB+ is that DAB+ uses a more efficent encoding system aacPLUS whereas DAB encodes using MP2. This means that more stations can be fitted into the same broadcast bandwidth. If you are happy with DAB there is really no pressing need to rush out and buy DAB+ enabled radios. In anycase many existing radios can already decode DAB+, I know that almost all Ruark radios made since 2010 can decode DAB+. Do a re-scan and see if Classic FM changes from DAB to DAB+.

Classic FM has changed from DAB to DAB+ in our region (Central Scotland). and our old Pure Evoke-1 radios no longer receive it. So we bought a new DAB/DAB+/FM radio - and we now are back to being wakened to the soothing music on Classic FM (via DAB+).

tjh290633 wrote:

Grumpsimus wrote:
Basically, DAB radio coverage has never been as good as FM in the UK. The BBC set up the original FM transmitters in the 1950s and acheived a coverage of over 99% (this was based on having an external aerial 30 feet above the ground). Digital has never reached such levels, BBC national channels 98%, Digital One 91.5% and Sound Digital 83% for commercial stations.

To find other digital stations it is a good idea to re-scan the radio from time to time, as new stations do appear and others are dropped. If it is a reception problem try moving the radio so it has a clear view towards the transmitter. The ultimate is an external aerial, which can be used with some radios i.e. Ruark.

It is not clear what is wrong with your car radio, if you can get R1 you shoud be able to get the other BBC national stations. Again try a re-scan.

The difference between DAB and DAB+ is that DAB+ uses a more efficent encoding system aacPLUS whereas DAB encodes using MP2. This means that more stations can be fitted into the same broadcast bandwidth. If you are happy with DAB there is really no pressing need to rush out and buy DAB+ enabled radios. In anycase many existing radios can already decode DAB+, I know that almost all Ruark radios made since 2010 can decode DAB+. Do a re-scan and see if Classic FM changes from DAB to DAB+.

I have tried retuning several times. The problem may be that we are midway between two transmitters, Midhurst and Heathfield. As I said, going to the top of the Downs may help.

TJH

It shouldn't matter that you are between two transmitters. Digital radio is designed to switch automatically to the strongest signal. I suspect you are in a generally poor area for digital reception. Digital radio normally has 3 modes - it works fine, a narrow band where you get some noise often a burbling sound, it doesn't work.

The problem with DAB in your car is more puzzling. The way DAB is broadcast is on a digital multiplex, the BBC has its own multiplex (Block 12B), this transmitted over the whole country on a single frequency (225.648 MHz) from every transmitter. What the multiplex does is combine all the BBC stations into a single complex signal. The radio receiver splits this signal into the individual stations.

Therefore, if you can get BBC R1 you should be able to get all the other BBC national stations. It points to something being wrong with the radio in the car. It might be worthwhile doing a complete reset of this radio, not just a scan. You will lose all the existing presets when you do this

I use a 'Pure' DAB radio in our kitchen. It's annoying that I have to upgrade to DAB+ to get all stations. Redundancy built in.

Does anyone get radio via satellite?

bruncher wrote:I use a 'Pure' DAB radio in our kitchen. It's annoying that I have to upgrade to DAB+ to get all stations. Redundancy built in.

Does anyone get radio via satellite?

Is that even a thing?

I'm not sure Dab and Dab+ are likely to endure, once everyone figures out that a smartphone gets all radio stations via its internet connection. And that the smartphone doing the receiving can be connected wirelessly to the car radio (or any other hifi system with BT capability) using BlueTooth.

Mike4 wrote:

bruncher wrote:I use a 'Pure' DAB radio in our kitchen. It's annoying that I have to upgrade to DAB+ to get all stations. Redundancy built in.

Does anyone get radio via satellite?

Is that even a thing?

Yes, my Freesat box lists over 50 BBC and commercial radio stations. I never listen to radio through the telly though.

I'm not sure Dab and Dab+ are likely to endure, once everyone figures out that a smartphone gets all radio stations via its internet connection. And that the smartphone doing the receiving can be connected wirelessly to the car radio (or any other hifi system with BT capability) using BlueTooth.

On a recent drive from Scotland to Cornwall, there were various places where I lost either the DAB signal or mobile data coverage. I would just flip to the other to carry on listening.

(Radio was via the BBC Sounds app on Android Auto. Note it lags about 30 seconds behind live broadcast.)

Scott.

Mike4 wrote:
I'm not sure Dab and Dab+ are likely to endure, once everyone figures out that a smartphone gets all radio stations via its internet connection. And that the smartphone doing the receiving can be connected wirelessly to the car radio (or any other hifi system with BT capability) using BlueTooth.

I suspect DAB will be with us for a long time yet. Every broadcast system has a very long life, AM and FM are still with us, although they date back to the 1920s and 1950s in the UK. The main reason for this is that most of the investment is done by listeners rather than the broadcasters. It may cost say £100m to set up the transmitters, but the listeners spend many Billions on receivers, many of which will have a long life. Governments/Broadcasters are always reluctant to upset too many listeners at once, so it always a difficult decision to switch off the older systems.

I also think you have a rather rosy view of mobile signal coverage in the UK. Mobile was never intended as a substitute for broadcast radio and coverage is concerntrated in urban areas and main traffic routes and tends to fall off rapidily outside these areas. I have used my smartphone to listen to internet radio in the car, no broadcast alternative to these stations. They stopped within 3 miles of leaving home and I do not live in the sticks - a large town on the edge of London. I had a look at the OFCOM website maps showing mobile coverage and was surprised at number and size of white areas indicating no mobile coverage.

Assuming equally good reception, which should be better for music, digital or FM?

bluedonkey wrote:Assuming equally good reception, which should be better for music, digital or FM?

It very much depends on the quality of the signal transmitted by each station. With FM it tends to more consistent, with generally acceptably quality from most stations.

Digital is different because the owner of the Digital multiplex can choose between quality sound and packing more stations into the availiable bandwidth. In the UK the approach is mostly to pack in more stations at much lower quality and almost all transmit a lower quality signal than FM.

The BBC transmit the best quality on Digital and the quality is adjusted for each network, the best being R3 with a lower quality siginal for R4 which is largely speech. If you have a suitable radio it is easy to do a comparison between FM and DAB. Incidentally the best quality you are likely to get for R3 is probably streaming online from BBC Sounds.