Screw with not enough room for manoeuvre

[brightncheerful]

A long time ago, I got an electrician to install some sensor lights on the outside walls of our house. After a lightbulb blew and while trying to put in a new bulb yours truly damaged the lampshade, rendering the fitting unusable. So we had some new light fittings installed of a style that I reckoned would be easier to dismantle whenever a lightbulb blew. I can't remember how long ago that was, some 10 years perhaps, but last week one of the bulbs blew so today I set about replacing the bulb.

The idea as I say was for the fitting to be easy to dismantle. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a picture of the style of light-fitting we have but it's similar to this https://www.wholesaleledlights.co.uk/cornwall-outdoor-wall-lantern-stainless-steel.html?infinity=ict2~net~gaw~ar~138865697431~kw~~mt~~cmp~PLA%20-%20Outdoor%20LED%20Lighting&gclid=CKieoqiWmtICFe0V0wod-h4Bxg

To dismantle ours, you unscrew three female nuts under the base of the lamp-holder, which loosens/releases three long metal tubular struts attached to the top section. The whole of the top section then lifts off and reveals a plastic shade around the bulb. The shade is removed, and a bulb screwed into the holder.

For describing the position of the screws, Imagine a clock face: two screws are at the front (15:20 and 15:40), the third at the back (Noon). The third was easy to undo (finger tight), the second undid using pliers, but the last I found impossible, despite pliers and wd 40, so I had to go to the diy store to buy a spanner. Even with the spanner I still had to use a fair amount of force to loosen the nut. I suspect the electrician screwed it on awkwardly. Anyhow, having changed the bulb and assembled the fitting in readiness for screwing together, I discovered why the third screw was easy to undo. I think the electrician probably encountered the same difficulty as I have.

The third screw is positioned between the wall and the wall-side face of the fitting. Trying to hold the screw upright in position whilst at the same time turning it onto the male of the strut I found impossible with the spanner: not enough room for manoeuvre. I tried holding the nut in place with a magnet but the metal isn't magnetic so that didn't work. I've tried holding the nut on the spanner with some masking tape in the hope that I could keep the screw hole upright whilst manoeuvring it into place to turn with the fingers of my other hand and I thought that was going to work until the awkward angle started to hurt my hand: standing on a ladder two steps above ground may not be that high but when my fingers are aching I prefer to be on the ground.

After an hour or so, I gave up. The fitting can manage with two screws holding it in place. But it's not as secure and the wall is in a windy position, so I'm wondering whether anyone has any suggestions of how I could screw in the third nut, how to hold it in place whilst turning the nut simultaneously. The only thing I can think of is to undo the fitting from the wiring section so that gap between the wall and the light fitting is widened.

[DrFfybes]

Blu-tac it on to the end of a long screwdriver until it goes on a couple of turns to get it starter, then ideally a long 1/4 drive socket or box spanner.

I bought somethinglike this (but the Halford Professional brand) years ago...

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/ ... socket-set

they are superb for getting to all sorts of inaccessible places, like tightening up the locking screw for mixer taps, getting into gaps too short for a stubby screwdriver, etc.

Paul

[Itsallaguess]

Sounds like you just need a socket-screwdriver set, similar to this one -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rolson-28428-S ... B004TRQLU8

They sometimes have cheaper versions in the poundshop and similar places, although it sounds like you'd benefit from the flexi-extension section, which the really cheap one aren't likely to have.

Do be careful not to cross-thread the nut, as it sounds like a right pain for access if that were to happen.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[csearle]

Oh bnc, I feel your pain. Almost tempted to say welcome to my world. Some designs are truly awful.

If there are already two screws holding the lid on and it is for you and not a client then I'd be tempted to just make do with that - it ain't goin nowhere and all it needs to do is keep the rain out.

I appreciate though that to many (me too maybe) this would be a completely unsatisfactory deployment of pragmatism.

Chris

[bionichamster]

To be honest I find it difficult to visualise exactly the layout and the nature of the problem. You mention nuts and screws and struts and it's not clear exatly how access to the space is obstructed so apologies if some of the below is inappropriate

Possible solutions might be:

Firstly, the nut or the screw thread might be damaged making it much harder to reattach, so consider this (maybe try a new nut, or one of the others to see if it attaches more easily).

Use a socket and ratchet instead of a spanner
Use a socket extension if the socket and ratchet aren't long enough to reach (or a nut spinner; i.e. a tool like a screwdriver onto which the socket fits), a 'wobble bar' type extension, or a couple of them stacked might help if there is a mild obstruction
If you can't get in at it with the above, then try a flexible extension as described in a previous post.

or

If you have them a set of long-nosed pliers with a 45 degree bend at the end (most useful pliers I have!) they might be more helpful than a standard long-nosed pair, but this will still be much harder to turn sufficiently to attach the nut to the thread than a socket.

or
use a ratchet spanner with an angled end (but you probably won't have one available) with a bit of gaffer tape on the back to stop the nut falling through

or

Just take the lights off the wall and then assemble and reattach.

or

Make sure the two nuts are tight and dont bother with the third, if you are concerned about the wind, check the fitting fter a few weeks and/or months and you'll probably find that it is still secure, if not and the other nuts have come loose due to wind vibration then replace them with two nylock type nuts that won't loosen themselves.

It's hard without seeing it to offer much more specific advice.

BH

[quelquod]

I have a set of small deep sockets which I used to use for this sort of thing. Packed the socket to keep the nut at the top and then used the socket to get a firmer grip to get the nut on squarely. The trouble with the screwdriver 'nut spinners' is that often there's an obstruction to their length and the flexi-drives are quite difficult to get started, you sometimes just need something a bit more substantial than the nut itself to get a grip of. Then the last half turn with a nut spinner angle-on.

But it's probably not worthwhile spending a lot on special tools for a single job, it's fine if you're in the trade. I used to find the most awkward things on earth were ceiling and wall fittings where the tiny screws were horizontal and virtually adjacent to the wall/ceiling. Lost count of the number of screws that vanished under various bits of furniture.

[panamagold]

Clamp the nut in a vice (if you have one) across its edges with the screw hole in the vertical.
If you have a junior hacksaw, carefully cut a groove across the face of the nut to enable access for a screwdriver blade.
Secure the slot of the nut to your screwdriver with blu-tac or the like (ensure any fixative is not in the top part of the nut which will be screwed to the threaded bar) and offer up to the threaded bar and fit as you would a screw.
Once the nut has started on the screwed bar adopt the use of a spanner to tighten.

[brightncheerful]

Thank you very much.
I'll follow through your suggestions.

Start with do nothing and monitor how the weather conditions affects the stability. Having said that, I intend to replace the 60W bulb with an LED so doing something will be sooner than later.

Nothing wrong with the nut thread itself, it turns/tightens easily on both of the other struts. It's holding it in place before turning that's the issue.

I'm okay with buying a special tool for a one-off job; I've another light where I expect to encounter the same problem of not enough space between the wall and fitting. And my tool box has plenty of tools bought over the years but only used occasionally, for example a special knife for removing hardened putty from timber-framed sash windows; after refurbishing 17 sash windows in the mid 1970s I've not had sash windows since!

[PinkDalek]

... Nothing wrong with the nut thread itself, it turns/tightens easily on both of the other struts. It's holding it in place before turning that's the issue. ...

My non technical suggestion would be to ask your neighbours if one of them can lend you a hand. Would there be enough room for two up separate ladders, as "many hands makes light work"?

[ElectricFeet]

I tried holding the nut in place with a magnet but the metal isn't magnetic so that didn't work. I've tried holding the nut on the spanner with some masking tape in the hope that I could keep the screw hole upright whilst manoeuvring it into place to turn with the fingers of my other hand and I thought that was going to work until the awkward angle started to hurt my hand...

Classic trick I learned: Where you can't use a magnet, use Blu tack.