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Gas boiler died
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- Lemon Quarter
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Gas boiler died
Had the mad for the annual service today and he's condemned the 30 year old Glow worm Fuelsaver F as it is producing as much CO and CO2 where it passes through the wall as from the exhaust outside.
This means a new boiler, which is a bit of a bugger and leads to questions.
1) He said that all boilers are condensing ones now. Is that correct?
2) If it is does that mean that the header and expansion tanks will no longer be needed?
And the obvious question, any recommendations or cautions regarding makes?
Slarti
This means a new boiler, which is a bit of a bugger and leads to questions.
1) He said that all boilers are condensing ones now. Is that correct?
2) If it is does that mean that the header and expansion tanks will no longer be needed?
And the obvious question, any recommendations or cautions regarding makes?
Slarti
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:
And the obvious question, any recommendations or cautions regarding makes?
Vaillant would get my vote - I've been a very happy owner for many years, and I know that Mike from TMF always used to say that he got very few call-outs for them - which spoke volumes to him regarding their reliability, and that's been my experience too.
Cheers,
Itsallaguess
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
Itsallaguess wrote:
Vaillant would get my vote - I've been a very happy owner for many years, and I know that Mike from TMF always used to say that he got very few call-outs for them - which spoke volumes to him regarding their reliability, and that's been my experience too.
I couldn't remember which he'd said.
A great pity that he didn't come across here with the rest of us.
Slarti
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:Had the mad for the annual service today and he's condemned the 30 year old Glow worm Fuelsaver F as it is producing as much CO and CO2 where it passes through the wall as from the exhaust outside.
This means a new boiler, which is a bit of a bugger and leads to questions.
1) He said that all boilers are condensing ones now. Is that correct?
2) If it is does that mean that the header and expansion tanks will no longer be needed?
And the obvious question, any recommendations or cautions regarding makes?
Slarti
Question 1, essentially yes
Question 2, optional. Condensing and combi are often confused. You can get rid of tanks if you have a combi boiler, but this isn't necessary. You can use appropriate condensing boilers with a variety of setups, one of which might simply be a boiler swap retaining most of the existing plumbing if so required.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
staffordian wrote:Question 1, essentially yes
Question 2, optional. Condensing and combi are often confused. You can get rid of tanks if you have a combi boiler, but this isn't necessary. You can use appropriate condensing boilers with a variety of setups, one of which might simply be a boiler swap retaining most of the existing plumbing if so required.
Thanks for that.
The simple swap would be our favoured option, due to minimal work and disruption.
Slarti
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:Had the mad for the annual service today and he's condemned the 30 year old Glow worm Fuelsaver F as it is producing as much CO and CO2 where it passes through the wall as from the exhaust outside.
This means a new boiler, which is a bit of a bugger and leads to questions.
1) He said that all boilers are condensing ones now. Is that correct?
2) If it is does that mean that the header and expansion tanks will no longer be needed?
And the obvious question, any recommendations or cautions regarding makes?
Slarti
Common that the flue tubes suffer corrosion long term.
If nothing else wrong with the boiler, replacing the flue is not difficult.
https://www.heatingspareparts.com/boile ... ?id=122635
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
FredBloggs wrote:Another solid vote for Vaillant. We swapped our old Baxi out for a Vaillant and kept the hot water cylinder, header tank etc... Yes all modern gas boilers are condensing. They cannot meet the required efficiency without condensing. Typically, me and others I know who have swapped from an old gas boiler instantly save around 30% on their gas bill for the same comfort level.
Thanks.
30% would be nice, but would still take ages to pay for the new boiler, which has been my reason for trying to stick with the old one as long as possible.
Slarti
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:The simple swap would be our favoured option, due to minimal work and disruption.
It's not quite as simple as it ought to be with new boilers being wall mounted and older ones floor standing. There's also differences in the pipework and control systems. If the radiators are as old as the boiler, they may also not take kindly to a new hot water driver. In terms of cost, it's not just the boiler but also the accompanying installation work which can be two or three times the direct cost of a boiler.
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- Lemon Pip
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Re: Gas boiler died
Be aware of the different exhaust "product" from a condensing boiler . . . . . . This may cause trouble if near a neighbour's property or boundary.
Old boiler flue gas is very hot, invisible and shoots nearly vertically upwards from the flue exit.
Condensing boiler : flue gas is MUCH cooler ( because it has passed through a couple of heat exchangers to recover as much heat as possible ).
This cooler exhaust is highly visible, due to 100% relative humidity *, and tends to be blown out - often horizontally - by a powerful fan.
* a.k.a. mist/fog
There are Building Regulations to comply with when fitting a condensing boiler. These are for structural & safety reasons.
There are also Local Authority guidelines relating to the siting of the flue. These are an attempt to pre-empt the creation of a statutory nuisance from the boiler exhaust plume.
Boiler Manufacturers are aware of the plume problem and produce a variety of add-on, kits to divert the plume in various directions.
Strangely enough these plastic pipes are of a diameter that don't match any other type of plastic pipe. They are quite expensive for bits of plastic pipe.
Old boiler flue gas is very hot, invisible and shoots nearly vertically upwards from the flue exit.
Condensing boiler : flue gas is MUCH cooler ( because it has passed through a couple of heat exchangers to recover as much heat as possible ).
This cooler exhaust is highly visible, due to 100% relative humidity *, and tends to be blown out - often horizontally - by a powerful fan.
* a.k.a. mist/fog
There are Building Regulations to comply with when fitting a condensing boiler. These are for structural & safety reasons.
There are also Local Authority guidelines relating to the siting of the flue. These are an attempt to pre-empt the creation of a statutory nuisance from the boiler exhaust plume.
Boiler Manufacturers are aware of the plume problem and produce a variety of add-on, kits to divert the plume in various directions.
Strangely enough these plastic pipes are of a diameter that don't match any other type of plastic pipe. They are quite expensive for bits of plastic pipe.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Gas boiler died
malakoffee wrote:Be aware of the different exhaust "product" from a condensing boiler . . . . . . This may cause trouble if near a neighbour's property or boundary.
It's like having a steam engine on the premises. Your own local cloud generator.
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- Lemon Half
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
I started a thread a while ago which may be of interest to the OP...
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4031&hilit=Vaillant
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4031&hilit=Vaillant
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
Alaric wrote:Slarti wrote:The simple swap would be our favoured option, due to minimal work and disruption.
It's not quite as simple as it ought to be with new boilers being wall mounted and older ones floor standing. There's also differences in the pipework and control systems. If the radiators are as old as the boiler, they may also not take kindly to a new hot water driver. In terms of cost, it's not just the boiler but also the accompanying installation work which can be two or three times the direct cost of a boiler.
The old boiler is wall mounted and as there is no intention of changing the pump, why would that affect the radiators?
Slarti
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:The old boiler is wall mounted and as there is no intention of changing the pump, why would that affect the radiators?
All I know is that I had to replace all the radiators within a couple of years of getting a new boiler. It may not have been absolutely necessary but the system never circulated properly following the new boiler being put in. The old valves had rusted in place so were no longer adjustable, which didn't help.
The chains, Southern Electric in our case, are good at getting people to come to quote and producing quotes, which is more than could be said for local plumbers. It's pot luck as to who you get for the actual installation and how good they are working with fifty year old hardware.
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Re: Gas boiler died
Alaric wrote: The old valves had rusted in place so were no longer adjustable, which didn't help.
Ah, biannual maintenance requires turning each valve all the way one way, all the way the other and then back to the mark that you made at some point.
Taught that one by an ancient uncle as a lad, that way they don't seize up. Well not quite so much.
Slarti
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
redsturgeon wrote:Vaillant or Worcester
John
It's like deja vu all over again...apparently worcester bosch is rubbish and any other make is king.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
A few years ago Valliant were the bees knees, but they seem latterly - from the point of view of build quality and reliability- to have gone down market.
It is worth a look at Viessmann (huge in Germany) and ATAG (big in the Netherlands but newish over here) as the build quality of both appears excellent. They both have stainless steel heat exchangers, and the ATAG Combi Economiser also has domestic hot water pre-heat from the flue gas that helps hot water flow and saves a few ££.
It is worth a look at Viessmann (huge in Germany) and ATAG (big in the Netherlands but newish over here) as the build quality of both appears excellent. They both have stainless steel heat exchangers, and the ATAG Combi Economiser also has domestic hot water pre-heat from the flue gas that helps hot water flow and saves a few ££.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:Itsallaguess wrote:
Vaillant would get my vote - I've been a very happy owner for many years, and I know that Mike from TMF always used to say that he got very few call-outs for them - which spoke volumes to him regarding their reliability, and that's been my experience too.
I couldn't remember which he'd said.
A great pity that he didn't come across here with the rest of us.
Slarti
I happened to spot this post when looking for Mike4 - therefore see:
viewtopic.php?p=138137#p138137
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
I should add an update to this as today we had the new boiler installed.
It is a Vaillant and we have got Hive.
As the system has only been in since about 16:00 I am not prepared to offer many opinions, yet.
Only, I got 3 prices and there was only a small difference between BG and the other 2 and BG guaranteed that their quote would be the most we would pay. Their rep included the cost of providing an earth spike, if there wasn't one, but as there was that saved £370 off the quote. Which does seem rather a lot.
First opinion is, some of the options in Hive seem very strange to me. Like you can't actually turn the heating off, you have to have "frost guard" on, even when you have it "manually" off. If there was any risk of the temperature in the house dropping below 7C then the heating would be on.
But, the guys who did the job did it quickly. We were told that it would be at least a day and a half's work. They did it between 08:15 and 16:00, including the paperwork. Which I find pretty impressive.
I'll report back on the gas usage for the water in a couple of months and, if I remember, for the heating once it is back on.
Cheers
Slarti
It is a Vaillant and we have got Hive.
As the system has only been in since about 16:00 I am not prepared to offer many opinions, yet.
Only, I got 3 prices and there was only a small difference between BG and the other 2 and BG guaranteed that their quote would be the most we would pay. Their rep included the cost of providing an earth spike, if there wasn't one, but as there was that saved £370 off the quote. Which does seem rather a lot.
First opinion is, some of the options in Hive seem very strange to me. Like you can't actually turn the heating off, you have to have "frost guard" on, even when you have it "manually" off. If there was any risk of the temperature in the house dropping below 7C then the heating would be on.
But, the guys who did the job did it quickly. We were told that it would be at least a day and a half's work. They did it between 08:15 and 16:00, including the paperwork. Which I find pretty impressive.
I'll report back on the gas usage for the water in a couple of months and, if I remember, for the heating once it is back on.
Cheers
Slarti
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Gas boiler died
Slarti wrote:First opinion is, some of the options in Hive seem very strange to me. Like you can't actually turn the heating off...
Cheers
Slarti
This seems to be the norm for modern controls.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but it works fine in my experience.
When setting the program, whenever you want it off, you simply program it to a low temperature, eg 10 C.
Good luck with it, and here's hoping for a really cold spell so you can see how it all works
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