Hive?

[Slarti]

British Gas want to sell me a Hive controller with my new boiler.

Apparently it doesn't need connection to the internet to work.

Is that correct?

Slarti

[PinkDalek]

See https://www.hivehome.com/support/Our_Hi ... ps-working which I found on this thread over at LBYM which may be of interest generally:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9876

[AF62]

Apparently it doesn't need connection to the internet to work.

As a Hive owner I can't see how it is usable without an internet connection, or more to the point, why you would want to buy one if you were not connecting it to the internet.

The Hive comes as three parts; the control box connected to the boiler, the thermostat, and a hub connected to your router.

Programming of the system is done through a PC or the phone app, so I am not sure how you would do that if it wasn't connected to the internet.

As for the Hive device itself, it isn't bad but it could be a lot better and from what I have seen some of the competition seems much better (I bought a version 1 for the specific reason that the thermostat it runs on batteries and doesn't need to be plugged into the mains, which the second version and most of the competition do).

[midnightcatprowl]

I haven't seriously considered a Hive for the simple reason that I don't have central heating (yet?) but all their advertising seems to focus on the idea that, for example, you decide to go with friends for a drink or meal after work, so you use your mobile to make hive delay switching on the heating. Or you are out and about and it starts to snow so you use your mobile to make hive turn the heating up ready for you arriving home? Maybe there is other advertising with other messages but that's what I've seen.

[csearle]

Re remote control, I remember thinking what a waste of time! If I'm interested in the temperature of my living room then I'll most likely be there to turn stuff on/off. The next time I thought about it was when I was half way to Cornwall for a week and realised I'd forgotten to turn down the heating. Doh! C.

[DrFfybes]

Re remote control, I remember thinking what a waste of time! If I'm interested in the temperature of my living room then I'll most likely be there to turn stuff on/off. The next time I thought about it was when I was half way to Cornwall for a week and realised I'd forgotten to turn down the heating. Doh! C.

We're terribly old fashioned - we have neighbours who pop in every few days to check the fish and turn the 'stat back up the day before we come home.

Paul

[richlist]

Yea....I'm old fashioned as well.
I think the benefits you get from having a hive type device depends on your lifestyle.

If your a young 20/30 something who is out working every day, socialising every evening and away every other weekend ie lead a busy life.....then I can see the advantage.

I'm retired, am home most days, my life is far more relaxed and organised so having a hive device i could control from my phone would be as useful as a chocolate teapot.....and id need to get a new smart phone.

[Slarti]

As a Hive owner I can't see how it is usable without an internet connection, or more to the point, why you would want to buy one if you were not connecting it to the internet.

The Hive comes as three parts; the control box connected to the boiler, the thermostat, and a hub connected to your router.

Programming of the system is done through a PC or the phone app, so I am not sure how you would do that if it wasn't connected to the internet.

As for the Hive device itself, it isn't bad but it could be a lot better and from what I have seen some of the competition seems much better (I bought a version 1 for the specific reason that the thermostat it runs on batteries and doesn't need to be plugged into the mains, which the second version and most of the competition do).

I'm not sure if I do want one, or not, but the old controller was getting a bit difficult before the boiler failed, so I was wondering if I should get all the disruption over at once. Hence the thread to find if it is a good idea.

If the thermostat needs mains power, then it is a non starter, as where the stat lives, there isn't any.

Programming without internet would surely be possible over the network it is connected to, without any need for the internet?

Slarti

[shinygoldcar]

I've got hive. Had it for about 3/4 years. The first thermostat was ok, my girlfriend at the time hated it, admittedly it sometimes didn't respond when you pressed the buttons to adjust it, but as I only ever controlled from a smartphone I very rarely had any issues with it, but she refused to use the app. She eventually punched it and broke the screen! (It continued to work, but you couldn't see the display anymore)

Since she left, I did buy a replacement, which was also an upgrade as you couldn't buy the base thermostat. And I have to say that the new one (square with a dial, as opposed to white, rectangular and with buttons) is miles better! It never had the issue that the first thermostat had, and is also more pleasant overall, as the dial is more friendly than buttons, and you have a choice of stand and wood effect surrounds, so it looks better too.

It is true you do not need internet connection to use it. You do have the option of programming the timer either on your smartphone or through a browser on your computer, and I highly recommend using the browser on computer method, which is so much easier than doing it on the thermostat. Not that the thermostat is more difficult than any other, just that it is so much easier on a computer.

Both the base thermostat and my current one use batteries. There is a hub that is mains powered and plugs into your router. Presumably you can still use it if you have a router but no internet, but if you have no router then I'm not sure. There is also the receiver that lives with your boiler and is mains-powered and always on. If for some reason you have no working hub or thermostat, you can still go up to the receiver, press a button and the boiler comes on, but this is not the intended method of use.

I find my primary use for hive is the lazy one: if my phone is at arm's length then I do not need to get up and walk to the thermostat. I can turn the heating on in bed, in the kitchen, in my office. That said, I do find it useful if I am working away from home. On the day I drive back I can turn the heating on and come home to a warm house, though sometimes I forget to turn it on and come home to a cold house! Once or twice I have driven away and remembered after a couple of days that I haven't turned the heating off, so I can turn it off with my phone.

It also records the temperature readings, so if you are at all geeky you can see how the temperature varies over the course of a day, week, month or year!

[shinygoldcar]

Programming without internet would surely be possible over the network it is connected to, without any need for the internet?

Slarti

Programming using the thermostat is possible without internet. Programming via computer browser or via smartphone would require internet.

[Howard]

Hope you are getting a competitive quote for installing your new boiler?

I got several quotes and a local (quite large) firm's price was more than £1,000 cheaper than BG for the same boiler. I chose them primarily because of their Checkatrade ratings. Their monthly boiler cover is also about one third the cost of BG's. Despite the claims for how much gas a condensing boiler will save, I have found that the energy savings are not that significant - and I'm sad enough to track them on a spreadsheet. The major cost reduction for me was the service package.

BG tried to sell me a hive controller but, being retired, I couldn't see any cost benefit.

Good luck with the installation.

regards

Howard

[twotwo22]

You'll need something if it is a combi boiler.
Having just had a combi installed to replace a back boiler mine came with weather compensation.
I asked my installer if this was an option I could decline. His reply was basically that it was the cheapest and simplest of the new requirement for building regs from April 6th 2018.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/boiler-pl ... ation-2018

Hive, Nest is another option.
I think part of the plan is that temperature is controlled one way or another based on outside temperature so I would have thought Hive, Nest needs to be on the internet to get this information.

http://www.beama.org.uk/asset/91E44EAD- ... 2286AA5F7/

Just noticed on page 2 of that last link it does say.....

"In the context of Part L, this definition of a smart thermostat does not require the measure to offer remote control
or internet connectivity"

[csearle]

I think part of the plan is that temperature is controlled one way or another based on outside temperature so I would have thought Hive, Nest needs to be on the internet to get this information.

In Germany many houses have outside thermostats that feed this information to the controller.

If the building regs in this regard are anything like some aspects of Part P then they might only apply for new builds or where building control have become involved. Might be worth checking?

C.

[twotwo22]

I think part of the plan is that temperature is controlled one way or another based on outside temperature so I would have thought Hive, Nest needs to be on the internet to get this information.

In Germany many houses have outside thermostats that feed this information to the controller.

If the building regs in this regard are anything like some aspects of Part P then they might only apply for new builds or where building control have become involved. Might be worth checking?

C.

Government FAQ I just found says it is required for replacement boilers. It's in section 3

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... eet_v3.pdf

[Slarti]

I think part of the plan is that temperature is controlled one way or another based on outside temperature so I would have thought Hive, Nest needs to be on the internet to get this information.

In Germany many houses have outside thermostats that feed this information to the controller.

If the building regs in this regard are anything like some aspects of Part P then they might only apply for new builds or where building control have become involved. Might be worth checking?

C.

I found this
"Customers will also be given the option to select additional energy-saving measures and every new boiler installed after April must include at least one of the four following measures:"
https://blog.constructaquote.com/2018-b ... gulations/

I'm hoping that it is correct because then the new boiler will have Flue gas heat recovery system and I won't need Load compensating thermostat, Weather compensating thermostat or Smart thermostat.

I have decided that I am happy with the current timer and thermostat.

Slarti

[stewamax]

every new boiler installed after April must include at least one of the four following measures

No so - this applies to combis only, although weather compensation and load compensation thermostats are a useful addition to any boiler.
Both tell the boiler to raise or lower the boiler CH water output temperature target; there is presumably some arbitration when each proposes a different temperature but perhaps the boiler just picks the hottest, subject I guess to not raising the temperature so high that the boiler stops condensing (or maybe if it is very cold the ££ saving from condensation is ignored)

[twotwo22]

I'm hoping that it is correct because then the new boiler will have Flue gas heat recovery system and I won't need Load compensating thermostat, Weather compensating thermostat or Smart thermostat.



Slarti

Are you sure ? They are big and bulky and expensive add-ons.

[stewamax]

Flue gas heat recovery system

They are starting to be built-in options on combis: see e.g. ATAG's Economiser combi range, where the flue-gas heat recovery option costs an extra £170ish over the non-Economiser version.

[twotwo22]

Flue gas heat recovery system

They are starting to be built-in options on combis: see e.g. ATAG's Economiser combi range, where the flue-gas heat recovery option costs an extra £170ish over the non-Economiser version.

That would seem to resolve it all then and Hive not required.