The Lemon Fool

Hi

I have decided to get my whole downstairs refloored. It's only two rooms and a small loo. Currently the living room is a dark slightly jaded laminate, the room is too dark so I need to lighten it up; the kitchen is a yellowy badly fitted but newer laminate.

I want something lighter than the living room, not yellowy and properly fitted.

Things I was hoping for some input on are:

1) is laminate OK, or shall I go for veneer, or real wood?

Considerations: kitchen is half the space so might have a damp tendency though I'm not in the habit of sploshing water around, ditto the loo.
I'd like it to look really nice! I have no intention of ever changing it again. So, is it worth investing more? I'm edging towards the veneer to be honest. Wood looks like it might have cleaning requirements I am not interested in complying with!

2) I am considering putting in under floor heating - pros and cons? I have gas central heating. I might do it just in the kitchen and loo and get rid of the radiators. Is it massively expensive to run compared to gas? Would it be worth considering it for the living room too? Do I need a different person to do that (electrician?) or will floor fitters do it?

3) the kitchen floor is very lumpy. It was converted from the garage and it feels to me as if the floor under the laminate was not properly prepared. Will it be very expensive to remedy this - I assume it just needs a self levelling screed of some sort?

It's not a very big house, so I'm expecting if I go for just the flooring it will be under £2k, but more if I add the underfloor heating.

Thanks for any ideas or input I need to consider!

Mel

Hi Mel,

My thoughts, having laid many laminate floors but also several wood ones too, also with experience of underfloor heating.

From what you say in terms of not wanting ongoing maintenance, laminate is probably best. Pick one suitable for underfloor heating if that is what you wish to go for.

I assume you will use electric underfloor heating since the wet type would be very expensive to retrofit. Floor fitter will do the electric type. I'd probably suggest it for kitchen and loo only since I don't think it will provide enough heat as the sole source in the living room.

Depending on how uneven the floor is they my be able to use a suitable underlay rather than screed.

John

Perfect, thank you.

Yes, while I would like a beautiful, shiny, unique real wood floor - I know it will get scuffed and need varnishing or waxing or something and I'm not up for that (I can't even be bothered to mow my 2m2 lawn!).

Yes, I was intending to use the click mat underfloor heating, but maybe I will leave the radiator in as well (the kitchen is the same size as the living room and has a table so can spend quite a lot of time in there). I can change the loo one to a heated towel rail.

I'm excited to get this done now!

Mel

Good luck!

John

Mel,

Whatever you do, DO NOT PUT IN ELECTRIC UNDERFLOOR HEATING.

Electric heat is about 3x the cost of gas (or oil) heat. That's why the electricity company charges you approx 15p/kWh and the gas company charges you approx 5p/kWh.

This gets worse when it is underfloor due to the time lag in it warming up, and the relatively cool spot temperature at the surface. The consequence of this is that people put ALL underfloor heating on for longer, and more aggressively, than (say) wet loop radiators.

I don't know what is underneath your existing flooring surfaces, but if it were me I'd get under them, insulate, then put in WET LOOP underfloor heating, then the flooring. In my case the wet loop comes off of the same gas boiler as my radiators, but it could equally well be off a oil boiler.

If you can't get underneath your floors to insulate, then relay them per whatever takes your fancy, and keep the existing wet loop radiators.

Before I knew her, an architect who wanted the sleek look, convinced my GF to put electric underfloor in a small 1.5 bed property. Now my GF is used to shelling out approx £5k for heating, but even she was surprised to see £2k bills for heating this little job. She has since put in oil fired wet loop radiators and saved £1.5k/year on that one. (and other things on her main house, including wet loop underfloor).

DON'T DO ELECTRIC UNDERFLOOR

regards, dspp

I have electric underfloor heating in three bathrooms and it is not excessively expensive.

Here are some average costs.

https://rayotec.com/electric-underfloor ... or-heating

It's not as cheap as gas fired radiators for a whole house but for small specific rooms it is fine and the installation costs are far cheaper.

John

OK, so the kitchen isn't a small area - it's a smallish house but the kitchen is half the footprint.

I assume it's concrete under the current flooring.

The other option is buy nice new funky radiators that are more efficient and look better.

I have seen that gas prices are catching up with electric now.

In my previous house I got rid of the rad in the kitchen to provide more wall space for cupboards (don't need to do that here) and put in two kickboard heaters. One was electric and I could switch on when I wanted. The kitchen was north so it got very cold and as I lived alone I didn't need all the heating on just to stand and make a cup of tea, so that was useful - probably expensive to run on a like for like basis but I only used it about ten minuets a day, not every day. The other one was on the heating so came on with the rest of the heating, though it had an isolator switch so I could turn it off if I wanted to. That arrangement worked very well.

Hmm....I think I need to do some research.

Mel

As you rightly point out the actual use you make of the space will determine what is the best approach to the heating.

In your situation, excavating to install wet underfloor heating is a non starter so the choice is between ufh or radiators. I'd say ufh makes sense for the loo, keeping your tootsies nice a warm and giving a gentle background heat. In the large kitchen then it depends how long you spend in there and how much time during the day you want it to be warm. Do you just use it for cooking etc or do you eat in there and sit there on the computer? The heat required for comfort while standing cooking or ironing is much less than if you are sitting still.

I'd be inclined to install the ufh in the kitchen and leave a radiator in there to and balance the usage to suit.

John

Ironing??

Anyway - actually I do very little in there. I do sit on the laptop sometimes if I work from home but mostly I use the living room. Obviously cooking but eating only if I have guests which is rare.

It's not worth just having the loo done, the floor is about a foot square.

I am hoping to have a small extension on the front of the house (which is the kitchen) which will include extending the loo into a loo and shower, and having a small lobby with a small room off it which I may use as a study - so I think I'll leave it - stick with radiators and put in underfloor heating for the new loo when it gets done in a couple of years. Saving the money from not doing it will help that come sooner. Though I will change the rad for something less boring, I was going to change the living room ones anyway.

thanks!

Mel

melonfool wrote:Ironing??

Mel

I am sure I spotted creases last time I saw you!

John

melonfool wrote:Ironing??

... I do very little in there. I do sit on the laptop sometimes if I work from home
Mel

????

Anyway, I've got ufh in the new place - the wet variety, as it seems to involve pipes, and the boiler. And stuff.
It's colossally effective compared with my old Victorian conversion flat with storage heaters - helped by the vastly better insulation of course
I've actually had to open the windows to cool the place down after overdoing it a few times

redsturgeon wrote:

melonfool wrote:Ironing??

Mel

I am sure I spotted creases last time I saw you!

John

I'll slap some more anti ageing cream on!

Mel

AleisterCrowley wrote:

melonfool wrote:Ironing??

... I do very little in there. I do sit on the laptop sometimes if I work from home
Mel

????

Anyway, I've got ufh in the new place - the wet variety, as it seems to involve pipes, and the boiler. And stuff.
It's colossally effective compared with my old Victorian conversion flat with storage heaters - helped by the vastly better insulation of course
I've actually had to open the windows to cool the place down after overdoing it a few times

I don't literally sit on it. But then it isn't literally a laptop either.

I hate storage heaters. My house is generally very warm to be honest. Though I might get the loft insulation and the cavity wall stuff checked at some point too.

Mel

I've installed some ceiling panel heaters that radiate heat very effectively. Most come with integrated thermostats, timers and remote controls. Still no more than 100% efficient, but the heat feels a bit like that you experience when facing to the sun.

Chris