Radiators

[PrincessB]

Hi melonfool,

Have you tried searching for 'flat panel radiators' ? I got this as a first result from Google:

https://www.traderadiators.com/acatalog ... ators.html

These seem to fit some of your criteria as you've got. No gaps for ease of cleaning, a huge range of sizes and reasonable heat output on the double panel units.

I don't have thermal valves. Do they come standard on new ones then? Or is this something I need to investigate separately? They are not something I have ever had or used, just use the main thermostat.

You'll need to specify them, on the plus side, they don't cost that much.

The idea is to have a themostat on all but one radiator in the house the result being radiators that regulate themselves regardless of the main heating settings.

You can get designer units but these are very popular.
https://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/produ ... atorValves

I have them on all radiators barring the ones in the front room, which is the coolest room in the house. In less used rooms (the spare bedrooms), I have the settings turned down fairly low so when the heating turns on, these radiators warm the room to keep the damp away and then throttle down to save money on the gas bill.

Regards,

B.

[redsturgeon]

PS, Chrome radiators give a much lower BTU output than bog standard white. I'm still trying to work out why.

Emissivity.

Plus chrome finish is shiny on both sides (chrome plating is usually applied on top of a polished nickel base) so reflects heat back in.

Paul

A phrase I remember from O level physics is " a polished surface is a bad radiator of heat".

https://www.bbc.com/bitesize/guides/zttrd2p/revision/3

When I wanted to get the bad heat dissipation from my motor bike cylinder, I painted the fins matt black. Matt black would be the most efficient finish for a radiator.

John

[melonfool]

Thanks B - that site doesn't have the right combination either.

I was thinking I would give up, but the problem with that is that I still need to replace the rad that is behind the side board, if I replace it with a traditional one but smaller, I can know the btu of the one I buy but have no idea of the btu of the one I am replacing or the one under the window which would then remain, so I don't know what btu the new one would need to be.

So, then the only answer is that I need to replace both (and therefore also the kitchen one). And the smaller one needs to be vertical. I'll need to remeasure.

Btw, I am aware of the Christmas issue - but that is NOT the reason I can't get tradespeople, I never can. And I started to try to get this sorted back in October!

Mel

[sg31]

Thanks B - that site doesn't have the right combination either.

I was thinking I would give up, but the problem with that is that I still need to replace the rad that is behind the side board, if I replace it with a traditional one but smaller, I can know the btu of the one I buy but have no idea of the btu of the one I am replacing or the one under the window which would then remain, so I don't know what btu the new one would need to be.

So, then the only answer is that I need to replace both (and therefore also the kitchen one). And the smaller one needs to be vertical. I'll need to remeasure.

Btw, I am aware of the Christmas issue - but that is NOT the reason I can't get tradespeople, I never can. And I started to try to get this sorted back in October!

Mel

If these are the standard flat panel type radiator I'm sure we could come up with a decent estimate. Measure the height and length first, then have a look at the radiator from the top. Is it 1 panel or 2, does it have 1 fin or 2 fitted to the panel (s). ( That's a wavy sheet of metal).

Different manufacturers flat panels do have differing outputs but any contractor fitting radiators is just going to go for a basic type normally.

[melonfool]

So, to reinstate my radiator angst......

I have given up on the idea of upgrading to sparkly modern flat panel ones as the combination I needed was simply not available.

So, I am replacing the one that goes behind the sideboard with a narrower one, which means I'll also replace the other one in the same room so they match. Luckily, the one in the kitchen is already in the same style. We have very hard water here so I am also hopeful that new rads will be more efficient.

These are the ones:

https://www.diy.com/departments/kudox-p ... 314_BQ.prd

https://www.diy.com/departments/kudox-t ... 914_BQ.prd

My question now is - are these the right valves to go on them?

https://www.diy.com/departments/drayton ... 925_BQ.prd

It says: "Not suitable for single pipe systems" - how do I know if I have this?

Thanks!

Mel

[Itsallaguess]

My question now is - are these the right valves to go on them?

https://www.diy.com/departments/drayton ... 925_BQ.prd

It says: "Not suitable for single pipe systems" - how do I know if I have this?

Hi Mel,

You've almost certainly not got a single-pipe central-heating system, but if you're worried about it then you're right to check before purchase.

Usually, the simplest way to check is to try to see if each pipe from each end of a radiator is connected to two separate pipes running alongside, or under the floor, adjacent to each radiator. If this is the case, then you've got a two-pipe system, and this is by far the most common type of installed system in the past 30 or 40 years (see the top system diagram shown below).

Sometimes checking the pipes themselves isn't practical, as often the pipes from each end of a radiator will simply disappear under the floor, where the connecting pipes are not visible.

If this is the case, with your central heating system off and cooled down, you can get a really good idea if you simply turn your central heating on and check the warmth of the radiators as they warm up from cold.

With a single-pipe system, there will be a 'first' radiator and a 'last' radiator, with the 'first' radiator warming up much quicker than the 'last' one, whereas in a two-pipe system the warming-up process is much more balanced, with all radiators generally warming up at the same time.

Some info here, with pictures describing the two systems -

https://www.aelheating.com/blog/differe ... ng-system/



https://www.traderadiators.com/blog/wha ... /pipework/

In the picture above, the 'Feed and Return' diagram is showing a two-pipe system, with the single-pipe system below it - hopefully it's clear why a single-pipe system will manifest itself as having a 'first' (warmer quicker) radiator, and a 'last' (warmer slower) radiator....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[melonfool]

Thank you IAAG!

Why is nothing ever simple? The pipes disappear into the floor. House was built in 1964 but I have no idea if the heating was put in from new (probably not? We didn't have central heating in our house growing up in the 70's) so not sure that can be used as an indicator.

I think I'm going to buy them on the basis B&Q will exchange them if they are wrong!

I have to break this deadlock somehow. The flooring guys have given me a date of 4th March so I need the rads done by then. I'm a bit fed up now of living in a game of solitaire where there are so many things I can't get on with as there's no point until this is done (like there are still two boxes of books in my bedroom, but there's no point unpacking them as they need to go on the shelves in the living room, which will need to be packed up for the flooring to be done, but the boxes are in the space the blanket box is due to go, meanwhile the blanket box is acting as a 'coffee table' whereas I'd like to get an actual coffee table which would look somewhat nicer.....etc!)



Mel

[sg31]

Any property built after about 1970 is very unlikely to have a single pipe system. If yours was built in 1964 it is possible it will have but most systems of that age will have been replaced. The main indicator is that the flow pipe to the radiator usually comes in to the top od the rad and the return goes out of the bottom.

A lot of one pipe systems would have been 'gravity feed' which are usually fitted with bigger pipes to the radiators.

I'm no heating engineer but if your system has a pump to force the water round the system I don't think it will matter too much which type of radiator you fit, if water flows round the system the radiators will work.

The property I live in currently had a single pipe system when we moved in, even worse it didn't have bye pass pipes on each radiator. This meant that turning off one radiator effectively turned off all of them. It was the first thing we ripped out. We are still not finished renovating it after 3 years. Not far off though just the downstairs bathroom to gut....next week.

[dspp]

So, to reinstate my radiator angst......

....... We have very hard water here so I am also hopeful that new rads will be more efficient.
l

Mel,

The hardness of the water in your area ought to be absolutely irrelevant to how 'efficient' or 'effective' your radiators are in service. The loop that runs around the radiators is full of water that just circulates continuously, and which should have a cocktail of corrosion inhibitors added to it, and it is this that forms the heating medium. So the heating should not change much (or at all) over time.

At the other end, in your gas boiler or whatever, a gas flame is being exposed to the heat exchanger which contains that heating medium. Again the hardness of the water coming out in your kitchen sink should be mostly irrelevant to the radiators. At least as a first-order effect.

Regards,
dspp

[melonfool]

Thank you both - I think the system seems modern enough that it must not be single pipe.

I reckon it was put in later, after the houses were built, in 1964 I think central heating was still not that common and I had a day and night electric meter when I moved in, suggesting that in the past the heating was electric (perhaps?).

Sad that the new radiators won't be more efficient, I mean, they might be due to just being more modern and having better technology or something, but I had assumed they might get scaled up but can see that they don't as it's a closed system. I've just had the drains flushed as I had a mild sewage smell in the house, and the guy who did it said as well as all the usual stuff (yuck!) there was a lot of scale. I've had the water board out to have a look as well and they say tree roots are causing problems - oh joy!

Mel