Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

New boiler quote reasonable?

Does what it says on the tin
Gaggsy
Lemon Slice
Posts: 470
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 210 times

New boiler quote reasonable?

#183307

Postby Gaggsy » November 27th, 2018, 5:16 pm

I've just had a quote for a replacement for my approx. 33 year old Potterton Kingfisher 11.
The old boiler is downstairs at the back of the house and the old cylinder is in the airing cupboard upstairs. The proposal is to re-site the boiler in the upstairs airing cupboard. We're in a hard water area and the pipework has a lot of scale in it.
It seems a lot to me but does anyone have any views?

To attend site, drain down heating and hot water system. Remove old floor standing boiler and strip pipe
work back as far as possible. Re site boiler to top of airing cupboard. Supply and fit 1no Ideal Logic + system
boiler, magnetic filter, new motorised valve and new controls and cylinder. Alter all pipe work to suit new
boiler position. Power flush central heating system. Run new gas pipe from meter to boiler. Wire up new
central heating system. Test and leave in good working order. Total Costs £4,236 (including VAT)

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2298
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 869 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183322

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2018, 5:55 pm

British Gas, by any chance?

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2298
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 869 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183325

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2018, 5:59 pm

I guess it depends on where in the UK you are, but it doesn't sound wildly excessive given the amount of change needed, eg new flue (scaffolding or tower hire needed?), new gas pipe run, power flush, which isn't cheap, and a contingency for goodness knows what horrors might crop up with old blocked pipework.

As a matter of interest, what length of warranty is included, and what sort of controls are specified?

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6035
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1401 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183328

Postby Alaric » November 27th, 2018, 6:04 pm

staffordian wrote:British Gas, by any chance?


Presumably the "power flush" reference.

You might get up to 20% cheaper, but with any of the national suppliers, you are at the mercy of the competence or otherwise of those assigned to the job.

Modern boilers are not directly compatible with older systems, so you end up paying for a rebuild as much as buying and installing a new boiler. If it's a hard water area, you may need to consider replacing the radiators as well, particularly if the on/off valves are rusted on.

stewamax
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2417
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 83 times
Been thanked: 782 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183337

Postby stewamax » November 27th, 2018, 6:25 pm

It is unclear whether or not your existing system is ‘open vent’ (a.k.a. ‘regular’: has its own expansion and cold-water feed tank in the loft) as was usual when your system was installed.If so, the new system will not use it and it should ideally be removed.

If your current CH system has been dosed with inhibitor (e.g. Fernox MB1) it should not be scaled up – unlike your hot and cold water pipework and cylinder.

The quote says ‘new motorised valve’ (singular), which begs the question of whether your current hot water cylinder and CH are separately controlled - the cylinder with its own thermostat and the CH with a wall-mounted room thermostat.

And although you will be getting a new cylinder, remember that the hot water pipework from it to taps will be being fed at mains pressure and not at ‘cold-water-tank-in-loft’ pressure. If it is badly scaled, any expectations of more gushing hot water flow may be dashed!

‘Power flush’ can be anything from a quick “turn all the rads on and pump” through to a careful radiator-by-radiator flush followed by a re-balance - all of which that can take a day so alone.

What guarantee is offered? And on what? If the power flush causes a leak is this covered?

Finally, the location of your airing cupboard is not mentioned. I have a personal reservation about siting boilers in bedrooms even though they are sealed (balanced flue). The on/off cycling noise is a minor problem but a bedroom is the worst place to have an accidental and unrealised build-up of carbon monoxide.

Without knowing more, the price looks reasonable for a cheapish boiler taking two-and-a-half to three day job for two to install. If Mike4 is around this forum, I’m sure he can give a professional answer.

Gaggsy
Lemon Slice
Posts: 470
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183622

Postby Gaggsy » November 28th, 2018, 6:49 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'll try and add some more detail.

No it's not British Gas, it's a local firm (well, 15 miles away). I'm in Hertfordshire. He was recommended to me when my heating stopped working recently. He fixed the immediate problem (blocked pipes cut out and replaced, new pump installed) and he seemed to know what he was doing. He's not the first plumber to visit and tell me I might want to consider changing the boiler in the not too distant future.

The existing system has its own expansion and cold-water feed tank in the loft. That will not be required any more.
The scale that he found in the sections of pipe that were cut out was substantial - down to a pinhole in one place. The hope is that it was mostly isolated around the pump area where there were a number of tees and dead ends, plastic joints, seized isolation valves, and a generally untidy load of pipework that had been altered and repaired over the years.

There are currently two motorised 2 port valves. The cylinder has a thermostat (not working apparently) and the CH has a room stat in the hall downstairs.

I was told that the powerflush would be a requirement of the warranty on the new boiler. He seemed under no illusions that it would require a fair amount of time to work through the whole system (17 rads). He was reluctant to offer a powerflush while the old boiler is still there because it could loosen something in the boiler and cause it to leak. In fact, the amount of scale in the pipes meant it wouldn't have worked anyway.

His reason for offering the Ideal boiler was that it came with a 10 year warranty. I'm not sure what else would be guaranteed.

The airing cupboard is located in a bathroom on the first floor against an outside wall.

It's difficult to make a decision because of conflicting advice. On the one hand I'm told that the old Kingfisher cast iron boiler will just go on forever, on the other I'm told to consider replacing it soon. I'm also told that the life expectancy of new boilers is 6-7 years. Sure you can get them with 10 year warranties but you'd better not miss a service if you want to be able to call on it in the future. Any energy costs saved by changing the 55% efficient old boiler to a 90% efficient new one are lost in the extra servicing bill, let alone the cost of installation.

It's working at present and keeping the house warm. But for how long? It's a dilemma. What to do, what to do?

tea42
Lemon Slice
Posts: 440
Joined: March 9th, 2017, 8:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183642

Postby tea42 » November 28th, 2018, 8:50 pm

Theres about £2 grand + of parts there. Consiensous power flushing will take a day. Quite a bit of pipework, electrics, flue etc. You might save £500 somewhere else but I dont think its too far out with the VAT in there. Ask what make the boiler is and only buy a Worcester Bosch or a Valiant.

Mike88
Lemon Slice
Posts: 969
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:17 pm
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183643

Postby Mike88 » November 28th, 2018, 9:04 pm

tea42 wrote:Theres about £2 grand + of parts there. Consiensous power flushing will take a day. Quite a bit of pipework, electrics, flue etc. You might save £500 somewhere else but I dont think its too far out with the VAT in there. Ask what make the boiler is and only buy a Worcester Bosch or a Valiant.


The original post answers the question:

Supply and fit 1no Ideal Logic + system
boiler, magnetic filter, new motorised valve and new controls and cylinder.


I agree with the comment about the make of a boiler.

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2298
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1887 times
Been thanked: 869 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183645

Postby staffordian » November 28th, 2018, 9:13 pm

On the subject of which boiler...

I'm no expert but did some research as we replaced our (combi) boiler earlier this year.

We had an Ideal Isar which was in when we bought our current property about five years back. I estimate it was c twelve years or more old when we swapped it, and we did so after a couple of breakdowns and a warning that spares might be an issue if it broke again.

I'd been keeping an eye on reviews for a few years because of the poor reputation of the Ideal Isar and the expectation that it might die suddenly and had initially vowed to have nothing but a Vailant. However Worcester Bosch seem to have sneaked up on the rails and become valid contenders, as well, apparently as the Ideal Vogue.

In the end we went for the Worcester Bosch Greenstar and are reasonably happy with it, the only issue is that it needs a much faster flow of hot water before it fires the boiler, meaning in practice that it is not difficult to suddenly discover you are having a cold shower if you inadvertently turn down the shower flow a little too much! However I think this is an issue with most new combis as they rely on a flow sensor to trigger the boiler whereas our Isar used a temperature sensor.

In short, I can't comment on the Ideal you are proposing, but would make certain it is well thought of before deciding, and my preference would be Vailant or Worcester Bosch, both of which come with a lengthy warranty if the necessary hoops are jumped through (mainly using an authorised contractor, having a power flush and an annual service/inspection)

fuiseog
Posts: 31
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 4:22 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183781

Postby fuiseog » November 29th, 2018, 4:17 pm

Which? have a very useful/helpful "How to buy the best boiler" section and recommend best brands and best buys. Well worth a read IMO.

Mike88
Lemon Slice
Posts: 969
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:17 pm
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 271 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183794

Postby Mike88 » November 29th, 2018, 5:38 pm

My Worcester Bosch boiler is now nearly 5 years old and has been completely reliable throughout. It has been serviced twice in that period as my gas man believes they only need servicing every other year.

richlist
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1589
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 477 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183852

Postby richlist » November 29th, 2018, 9:37 pm

I was under the impression that annual services are a requirement of the warranty.

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3524
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 1403 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183876

Postby moorfield » November 29th, 2018, 10:57 pm

Gaggsy wrote:Total Costs £4,236 (including VAT)[/i]


That looks ball-park to me Gaggsy, and a well recommended local firm won't want to screw up the job I would have thought, unlike British Gas to whom you are just another job in the system...

We've got two boilers in Moorfield Towers both installed about 10 years ago circa £3k each at the time I think. The primary one is a Glowworm Ultrapower "system store", ie. it stores hot water in an internal tank and delivers at mains pressure. No problems with this at all and would recommend highly looking at one of those. The secondary one is an Ariston combi and has caused us nothing but trouble, we've been through two failed heat exchangers, and the hot water flow is rubbish.

I think it's worth keeping boilers serviced annually, or at least having some emergency call-out / repair contract, but again a reliable local tradesman should be able to do that. We still use British Gas but they really are hopeless (and I'm a Centrica shareholder too :o :shock: ), and the next appointment I've been able to book is not until mid-January!

mutantpoodle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1007
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 4:21 pm
Has thanked: 509 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183952

Postby mutantpoodle » November 30th, 2018, 12:18 pm

I guess everyone here has assumed that you will DEFINITELY be getting a couple of alternative quotes

not particularly to save money...but more specifically to compare the 'requirements'
once you have ascertained that everything on the list is needed then you can attend to pricing

I would NOT suggest for a second that your quote is in any way wrong...but you (WE) don't know do we!
so get opinions from others who do
and compare

then as you are happy with your man so far go back to him and enquire about any differences!
??

djbenedict
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 106
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 11:44 am
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#183975

Postby djbenedict » November 30th, 2018, 1:44 pm

It sounds quite reasonable to me. As a data point, I paid £3105 to have a boiler replaced in Cambridge last November, with none of the re-siting works etc. I thought (and think) that was expensive, but it was in a BTL with the prospect of the tenants having no heating over Christmas and with difficulty even getting people to come and quote...!

MiketheBoilerman
Posts: 6
Joined: November 17th, 2018, 1:26 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#188232

Postby MiketheBoilerman » December 20th, 2018, 9:19 am

Hello chaps and chapesses,

Just noticed this thread. Would my comments be helpful or has the moment passed now? (My Mike4 log-in deets wouldn't work the other night so I re-registered as Mike the Boilerman.)

Howyoudoin
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1254
Joined: June 4th, 2018, 7:58 pm
Has thanked: 601 times
Been thanked: 686 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#188249

Postby Howyoudoin » December 20th, 2018, 10:03 am

MiketheBoilerman wrote:Hello chaps and chapesses,

Just noticed this thread. Would my comments be helpful or has the moment passed now? (My Mike4 log-in deets wouldn't work the other night so I re-registered as Mike the Boilerman.)


Can't speak for the OP but I always find your opinions informative and would welcome them here as someone who is in the market for a new boiler.

HYD

Gaggsy
Lemon Slice
Posts: 470
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 1:42 pm
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 210 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#188369

Postby Gaggsy » December 20th, 2018, 2:32 pm

MiketheBoilerman wrote: Would my comments be helpful?


They certainly would Mike.
Always value your thoughts and advice. :)
I haven't made a decision yet on when or if to move/replace the boiler.


Good to see you back on here!

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7091
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#188697

Postby Mike4 » December 21st, 2018, 4:04 pm

Ok a few comments....

I agree with everything stewamax said in post 183337. Saved me a lot of typing, thanks!!

Two things not revealed unless I missed them. The reason for changing the boiler in the first place and the type of hot water cylinder going in. The scale in the system is almost certainly limited to the area round the pump and it indicates a a minor leak or leaks in the system. The water flowing (infinitesimally slowly) down the fill pipe to replace the leaked water gives up its calcium as soon as it encounters heat from the circulating boiler water, hence the clogging up all in the same place. A closed system with no leaks does not/cannot scale up, where would the calcium be coming from?

From the peripheral comment about loft tanks going I imagine you are getting a mains pressure unvented cylinder, which these days is a Good Thing, but check you are. If you are getting a vented unpressurised cyl the whole price is looking a little high to me. The unvented cyls are expensive.

The old Kingfisher is a fine trooper of a boiler however, and it will be a shame to see another bite the dust. Hardly anything inside them to go wrong other than the pilot thermocouple but the downside is as the years go by the new entrants to the trade have had the wind put up them at the training skools about permanent pilot light and the problems they cause, and most are scared witless to touch one. This effect will only ever get worse in the future.

The Ideal Vogue is not a boiler I'm familiar with but it gets good comments in the gas engineer forums, unlike the Ideal Logic which seems to have persistent heat exchanger leak problems. The Worcester Greenstar gets a terrible rap however, being dubbed "Worcester Botch" or "Worcester Bodge". Lots of us won't work on them if only due to the sharp edges inside. Only yesterday someone posted a pic of their bloody finger that got cut so cleanly they didn't notice until half the inside of the boiler was covered in blood...

bruncher
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1165
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:20 pm
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 297 times

Re: New boiler quote reasonable?

#211872

Postby bruncher » April 1st, 2019, 6:32 pm

We've just paid about four times that amount to replace a Potterton Profile and hot water tank, with a spanking Vaillant boiler and Megaflo tank. We were persuaded to have a pressurised system rather than header tanks. We were also persuaded to change all radiator valves, prior to flushing the system. Lots of new pipework. I feel quite hurt, even assaulted, by the whole experience, very high pressure tactics and huge mark-ups to the parts.

The boiler is failing to start automatically, however, which the fitter believes is down to dirty gas pipe between the meter and the boiler, which he proposes to replace. Apparently the new boilers have sensitive filters which object to any dirt in the water or gas.

The hypothesis about dirty gas pipe - I would appreciate some Foolish opinions on this. Supposing the gas pipe does have some degraded metal particles or other dirt, why doesn't that stop the boiler working when I press restart? Why does ignition only fail for automatic electronic instructions?

On the whole I prefer my simple Potterton. The new boiler does not have a gas burner adjustment, so the radiators are red hot when the system is working. With the Potterton I could turn the burner down and heat the house more gently.

I don't contest that the system needed replacing - fuses were blowing, and motorized valves were clanking alarmingly.


Return to “Building and DIY”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests