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Best aluminium windows

Does what it says on the tin
StepOne
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Best aluminium windows

#185050

Postby StepOne » December 6th, 2018, 11:39 am

Hi All,

We are looking to replace aging patio doors with sliding aluminium. We've had quotes from a few places, and there is quite a variation in price, with everybody keen to tell us exactly why theirs is better than the competition. I just wondered what the view here was on whether it was worth paying extra to get something better. For example, we like the look of the doors from https://origin-global.com/ but their quote was on the high side, and in some ways (e.g. a U value of 1.4) do not seem as good as some others. For example, https://alpinealuminium.co.uk/products/ ... ding-doors quote U value less than 1.0.

Has anyone got any advice or suggested suppliers?

Thanks,
StepOne

twotwo22
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185537

Postby twotwo22 » December 8th, 2018, 10:06 am

This is only a non-loaded question, why aluminium and not UPVC..just asking.

redsturgeon
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185546

Postby redsturgeon » December 8th, 2018, 10:28 am

I am getting some aluminium sling doors for a new build and out of interest I rang Alpine for a quote. They got back within 30 mins with a quote that was a lot cheaper than the supplier I have been dealing with. So I looked a bit further and found some reviews on the company (I'm sorry I can't remember the site I used) and there were enough warnings on there to put me off the company. It seems the reviews were either 5 stars and everything was great or about 20% were 1 star with very strong warnings to avoid at all costs.

The other things that I was not impressed with were

- the quote I received came with a "order today and received 10% discount" note on it. I think that is not a good sign.

- the promise of seven days delivery from order, I think is unrealistic and many of the reviews stated the seven days was not adhered to.

- the salesman who had provided the quote phoned me later that day, again to try to get me to order there and then. I don't see how you should be expected to make a many thousand pound purchase without more thinking time than that.

- The claims for the product look very good but the prices actually look too cheap to me. Much of the feedback seems to refer to bad installation and I can only imagine they use subcontractors and don't pay them adequately.

Finally and this is not a criticism, they couldn't supply the skylights that I need so I couldn't use them anyway.

John

EDIT I found the review site

https://www.reviews.co.uk/company-revie ... um-co-uk/3

StepOne
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185933

Postby StepOne » December 10th, 2018, 12:58 pm

twotwo22 wrote:This is only a non-loaded question, why aluminium and not UPVC..just asking.


Good question. Basically we think Aluminium looks better - the frames tend to be narrower so there is more glass. We've got good views from our living room, and we are opening up almost the entire wall, so the doors will be filling a 7.4 metre gap, and we want the maximum glass and minimum frame. We did get some early quotes for pvc, and aluminium didn't seem that much more - so we've basically gone down the aluminium route.

StepOne

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185936

Postby StepOne » December 10th, 2018, 1:02 pm

redsturgeon wrote:I am getting some aluminium sling doors for a new build and out of interest I rang Alpine for a quote. They got back within 30 mins with a quote that was a lot cheaper than the supplier I have been dealing with. So I looked a bit further and found some reviews on the company (I'm sorry I can't remember the site I used) and there were enough warnings on there to put me off the company. It seems the reviews were either 5 stars and everything was great or about 20% were 1 star with very strong warnings to avoid at all costs.

The other things that I was not impressed with were

- the quote I received came with a "order today and received 10% discount" note on it. I think that is not a good sign.
- the promise of seven days delivery from order, I think is unrealistic and many of the reviews stated the seven days was not adhered to.
- the salesman who had provided the quote phoned me later that day, again to try to get me to order there and then. I don't see how you should be expected to make a many thousand pound purchase without more thinking time than that.
- The claims for the product look very good but the prices actually look too cheap to me. Much of the feedback seems to refer to bad installation and I can only imagine they use subcontractors and don't pay them adequately.


Thanks red. I know what you mean about the sales methods. The email that came with the quote said "I've spoken to my boss and he says that because of changing aluminium prices we can offer discounts during December".

This is why we have been visiting local companies, but none of the ones we have seen on display seem quite as good as the options available from companies based down South, and are also generally more expensive.

Can I ask where you got yours from in the end? Were the locally manufactured, or shipped from abroad?

redsturgeon
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185942

Postby redsturgeon » December 10th, 2018, 1:15 pm

We haven't made a final choice yet but this website is a great source of information.

https://www.aluminiumtradesupply.co.uk/

John

swill453
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185978

Postby swill453 » December 10th, 2018, 2:53 pm

StepOne wrote:Thanks red. I know what you mean about the sales methods. The email that came with the quote said "I've spoken to my boss and he says that because of changing aluminium prices we can offer discounts during December".

You just know that email originally said "because of changing aluminium prices we can offer discounts during [insert month here]".

Scott.

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#185999

Postby PrincessB » December 10th, 2018, 4:16 pm

All but one of my windows are Origin, I also have a door by them. The door, is a door type back garden door rather than anything bi-folding or sliding.

Quality and build are solid and the units are well made, the door has a very decent lock and multipoint locking makes it very secure.

Be aware that to my knowledge, gleaned from a chap I know who works at a window company, they supply the window and door frames, not the glass, nor do they get involved in the fitting.

You will be paying more for a premium product but given you're looking for a 24 foot window area going premium could be a wise choice.

The window company will have an account with Origin but in essence you're dealing with three companies. Origin for the frames, the window company for the measuring and fitting and a glazing company who will make the sealed glass units to fit the frames.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect that Origin are not that fussy about who they sell their frames to which might mean you can use personal recommendations from friends, family or at a push Facebook to find a local company who are well regarded. A few phone calls and I doubt you'll have much trouble sourcing them.

On the U value bit, a lot of that is going to be down to the glass. I'm pretty sure Origin on any other decent manufacturer of aluminium windows use thermal breaks to slow heat loss within the frame.

I'm a bit rusty on how to specify your glass exactly but if you phone around and are lucky enough to talk to a glass geek, you may be well rewarded.

Some pointers would be:

Big windows, would you want it toughened? I would.
Triple glazing is going to be heavier than double, if done correctly considerably better for exernal noise reduction and possibly a better U value.
You might be offered the option of argon, xenon or krypton filling for the space between the panels. Argon is cheaper, krypton is better and no one knows how long the gas actually stay inside the sealed unit, so five years down the line and you might have normal window filled with air.
There are low E coatings, the most famous is Pilkington K glass which involves a micro thin coating on the glass to reflect heat back into the room.
For the outside glass, if sun facing you can also specify self cleaning glass. If sun facing, you might consider anti sun glass to stop you frying yourself during the summer - The downside being you won't get the thermal gain and free heating during winter time.

For the record, my triple glazed Velux windows use the Glazing 66 option and have a U of 0.7 for the glass and a total of 1.0 including frame. They also feature laminated inner pane and dew reduction.

HTH

Regards,

B.

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186038

Postby redsturgeon » December 10th, 2018, 7:44 pm

Some words of wisdom from the princess there that confirm my recent investigations but I can add two points:

1. All aluminium frame will have thermal break these days.

2. Building regs would require safety glass for doors. See below:


Safety glazing should be provided to any glass in a critical area. Below is a list giving general view as to when safety glazing is required:

Any glazed area within a window below 800mm from floor level
Any glazed area within a window that is 300mm or less from a door and up to 1500mm from floor level
Within any glazed door up to 1500mm from floor level.


I would concur that Origin seem to be well respected, I am also looking at Schuco and Reynaer too, possibly AluK also. All provide the frame profiles that are then cut to size and made up with the glass from another supplier and then as you say will be fitted by a third party which is probably the part of the chain where things are most likely to go wrong.


John

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186076

Postby SMarkus » December 11th, 2018, 8:40 am

I don't know where you are based, but we are in Chesterfield and had an orangery with a lot of bifold doors in powder coated aluminium built a few years ago. If you want to know the company then please ask.

Steve.

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186089

Postby dspp » December 11th, 2018, 9:26 am

Absolutely top notch are Met Therm (http://www.metthermwindows.co.uk/faq)

But they are expensive.

regards, dspp

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186114

Postby Howard » December 11th, 2018, 10:54 am

Out of interest, have you seen houses with the type of sliding doors you are considering and talked to the owners?

I ask because I live in the country and have neighbours who have these type of sliding doors. They look wonderful in TV programmes and in brochures, but don't appeal to me in reality. We get a lot of natural debris blowing around like leaves, pollen etc and this gets in the running gear. I'd also be worried about rodents wandering in unless you keep the doors permanently closed when someone isn't in the room. We have french doors fitted by Anglian with a raised threshold within fixed floor to ceiling UPVC windows. They are ideal for country conditions and in practice their detailing looks refined compared with the grooves and fittings of some sliding doors. And they have been virtually maintenance-free for more than 10 years.

Apologies for a contrarian view. However my advice would be to look very carefully at the running gear of sliding windows and consider the boundary between the interior floor and exterior patio. I'm sure it is possible to get this right, but if you don't, in practice it can look unattractive, particularly amplified by a wide installation.

Good luck in choosing your windows - the view sounds wonderful!

Howard

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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186133

Postby richlist » December 11th, 2018, 12:28 pm

Not forgetting that raised thresholds can cause problems for some people with mobi!ity issues.

redsturgeon
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186146

Postby redsturgeon » December 11th, 2018, 1:48 pm

How high does the threshold need to be to keep out rodents?

John

StepOne
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186178

Postby StepOne » December 11th, 2018, 3:22 pm

Thanks for all the comments.

Nice to some personal experience of Origin windows from PrincessB. Interestingly we went to see Ekco in West Lothian who Origin have listed as a local installer for us, and they said that although they still sell Origin Products, they no longer sell their sliding doors because of quality issues. They now stock Dutemann Glide-S which looked okay, but are lift-and-slide (as opposed to inline sliding) and felt very heavy to move. (Although maybe this is not a massive issue).

In terms of rodents - we already have them - 3 caught in the last month, so I don't think the doors will make them any worse. :D

As things stand we have the following options. All are for 2 sets of 2-panel sliders. So a total of 4 panels, each being 1.85m wide and 2.2m high. All prices ex-VAT, and all are for supply only, not installation.

Ayrshire aluminium - Smart Architectural Visiglide - quoted £4,331 for unglazed units.
Alpine Aluminium - ALUK system - AP45s - quoted £5,064 (Glazed with 2 x 2x6mm 6T/6TPM Ug=1.2 W/(m2K))
GAP Blackburn - Origin Slider 7200x2100 Glazed - £8,499
Ekco - CP130 (Reynaers) - Glazed 6mm toughened - £7,963
Ekco - Dutemann Glide S - Glazed 6mm toughened - £9,269

It's actually been quiet useful for me to go through my emails, and try to dig out from each company who the actual manufacturer is, and make sure I understand what is included/not included in each quote, which is why I'm going to leave all that info in the post - will be handy to refer back to!

Thanks again,
StepOne

StepOne
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Re: Best aluminium windows

#186180

Postby StepOne » December 11th, 2018, 3:26 pm

Howard wrote:Out of interest, have you seen houses with the type of sliding doors you are considering and talked to the owners?

I ask because I live in the country and have neighbours who have these type of sliding doors. They look wonderful in TV programmes and in brochures, but don't appeal to me in reality. We get a lot of natural debris blowing around like leaves, pollen etc and this gets in the running gear. I'd also be worried about rodents wandering in unless you keep the doors permanently closed when someone isn't in the room. We have french doors fitted by Anglian with a raised threshold within fixed floor to ceiling UPVC windows. They are ideal for country conditions and in practice their detailing looks refined compared with the grooves and fittings of some sliding doors. And they have been virtually maintenance-free for more than 10 years.

Apologies for a contrarian view. However my advice would be to look very carefully at the running gear of sliding windows and consider the boundary between the interior floor and exterior patio. I'm sure it is possible to get this right, but if you don't, in practice it can look unattractive, particularly amplified by a wide installation.

Good luck in choosing your windows - the view sounds wonderful!

Howard


Hi Howard,

Two of our neighbours have had similar windows put in - one of them is a builder, who installed both sets of doors, and who we have approached about doing ours as well. Maybe worth popping round to see how they are getting on now that we've had Autumn.

Cheers,
StepOne


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