Light Bulbs

[tikunetih]

We have just completed a big extension and renovation of the upstairs area, well it's almost completed. I've fitted some of these in every room

https://www.ledkia.com/uk/48-buy-recess ... ing-lights

Good quality, seriously cheap and they fit within the depth of the plasterboard so it doesn't matter if there's a joist in the way. They give a much wider angle of light beam than traditional down lighters. Basically they flood the whole room with light. In bedrooms 3m x 4m, 2 x24W is more than enough to provide strong light. If you change the transformer they are dimmable. We didn't bother, bedside lights will do when atmosphere is needed.

When they are off you don't notice them they don't hang down or attract attention. No more deciding which lights will fit the décor, these just provide light.

I can't sing their praises highly enough. They are just brilliant. So far everyone who's seen them has asked for the suppliers details because they want some themselves.

Is it the larger diameter lamps that you're specifically singing the praises of?

Or the smaller diameter ones, more akin to gu10 size, also?

Regarding these smaller ones, the advantages over gu10 fittings with separate gu10 led lamps seem marginal at first look, but I'm open to being educated otherwise. For example, presumably some sort of void is still required for the driver to be housed in. This void wouldn't need to be as deep, and so may help in some situations where installing a gu10 fitting might be tricky or impossible. Beam angles on some gu10s are low, but wide(r) angles can also be found.

What other advantages?

Perhaps a disadvantage is that of finding compatible replacements when the originals fail as they will eventually. At least with gu10 or other standard fittings you know that a replacement lamp can be found that will be a good match to the remaining original lamps (and fittings will be unchanged) whereas this may not be the case with these all in one lamp/fittings, unless they become the standard.

I'm not knocking your suggestion but looking to weigh up pros and cons, so input welcomed.

I have lighting projects in the pipeline and so need to get up to speed on where things are heading so I can make some good informed choices.

[sg31]

Is it the larger diameter lamps that you're specifically singing the praises of?

Or the smaller diameter ones, more akin to gu10 size, also?

Regarding these smaller ones, the advantages over gu10 fittings with separate gu10 led lamps seem marginal at first look, but I'm open to being educated otherwise. For example, presumably some sort of void is still required for the driver to be housed in. This void wouldn't need to be as deep, and so may help in some situations where installing a gu10 fitting might be tricky or impossible. Beam angles on some gu10s are low, but wide(r) angles can also be found.

What other advantages?

Perhaps a disadvantage is that of finding compatible replacements when the originals fail as they will eventually. At least with gu10 or other standard fittings you know that a replacement lamp can be found that will be a good match to the remaining original lamps (and fittings will be unchanged) whereas this may not be the case with these all in one lamp/fittings, unless they become the standard.

I'm not knocking your suggestion but looking to weigh up pros and cons, so input welcomed.

I have lighting projects in the pipeline and so need to get up to speed on where things are heading so I can make some good informed choices.

The smallest I've used is 12W and the largest is 24W so they are the ones I know.

As you say some void is needed but the driver is about 1" deep and in most situations that is available. The only one I can think of off hand is in blocks of flats with beam and block floors. If you get that situation you can forget any recessed downlighter.

When using Gu10 downlighters I always found I needed to fit a relatively high number to get the light coverage I needed . To get the right look they needed to be in a grid with equal spacings. To try and plan that doesn't take long but I can almost guarantee that in any decent sized room I would find a joist in the way of one bank of lights or another. That's not a problem with these lights as they fit in the depth of plasterboard.

Because of the higher power and better light spread you need less lights. I've got 4 x 24W in a room 6m x 4m and to be honest it's overkill. 3 would probably have been fine. I like brightly lit rooms so I'm happy with it. If I wanted less I could up-rate the drivers to dimmable and have exactly the light level I need but in practice very bright or bedside light is all we need.

The electrician who recommended the lights has been fitting ones with a 2 year guarantee, he's had a couple of call backs which have all been defective drivers. The ledkia ones are all 5 year warranty if that means anything.

If the size and shape of panel goes out of production I may be left with a useless hole in the ceiling I suppose but I don't think this is any different than GU10 downlighters, less holes to worry about and worst ways I'd repair the holes and replaster the ceiling in a half days work. With GU 10 fittings I've got numerous sizes of hole saws I've bought over the years where different customers have supplied GU10 downlighters. There were different size holes required so even replacing GU10 fitments can present problems.

Overall I like these panel lights because they flood the room with light. They appear to be excellent quality, they are easy to fit and most importantly they don't involve me traipsing round every lighting shop in a 50 mile radius with my wife while she looks at every light fitting ever made to find the exactly right light. Obviously she never does so she has to accept something not quite right and then spend the next 10 years seeing the right thing and wanting to change it.

The panels are unobtrusive and just supply light.

[JonE]

They give off very little heat. I'm tempted to fit them in some downstairs rooms but will need to check the fire rating first.

All well and good but I was wondering about installation in rooms where lighting could be running for a long time and where there is zero airspace above the unit - such as in a bungalow with loft insulation to current Bldg Reg standard.

The driver and LED panel would be giving off some heat but there'd be no convection from the backplate and the visible trim (presumably aluminium rather than plastic) doesn't provide much of an area for radiation (assuming the unit is constructed such that heat is conducted from source to that exposed trim). The unit appears to be sealed/enclosed so running a unit for hours at the max would surely involve a heat build-up - and LEDs don't live so long if they get too hot (temperatures so high as to start a fire are not what I was thinking about). I guess it could take quite a while to accumulate sufficient data to identify to what extent this has a bearing on the actual life of these units.

Perhaps a shield to create an airspace between the unit and the insulation would help for a while but, without extra work, that space is unvented so there's no way for the heat to escape easily. My web-searches haven't turned up much of any practical value so perhaps modern designs have this all in hand (even though they don't seem to say so) or else it's figured that premature failures due to installation in the circumstances I've mentioned would be of sufficiently low numbers that it wouldn't be a commercial concern.

Cheers!

[sg31]

They give off very little heat. I'm tempted to fit them in some downstairs rooms but will need to check the fire rating first.

All well and good but I was wondering about installation in rooms where lighting could be running for a long time and where there is zero airspace above the unit - such as in a bungalow with loft insulation to current Bldg Reg standard.

The driver and LED panel would be giving off some heat but there'd be no convection from the backplate and the visible trim (presumably aluminium rather than plastic) doesn't provide much of an area for radiation (assuming the unit is constructed such that heat is conducted from source to that exposed trim). The unit appears to be sealed/enclosed so running a unit for hours at the max would surely involve a heat build-up - and LEDs don't live so long if they get too hot (temperatures so high as to start a fire are not what I was thinking about). I guess it could take quite a while to accumulate sufficient data to identify to what extent this has a bearing on the actual life of these units.

Perhaps a shield to create an airspace between the unit and the insulation would help for a while but, without extra work, that space is unvented so there's no way for the heat to escape easily. My web-searches haven't turned up much of any practical value so perhaps modern designs have this all in hand (even though they don't seem to say so) or else it's figured that premature failures due to installation in the circumstances I've mentioned would be of sufficiently low numbers that it wouldn't be a commercial concern.

Cheers!

I can't provide any further useful information I'm afraid. My lights were fitted below YBS Superquilt insulation

http://www.ybsinsulation.com/brands/superquilt/

They were fitted by a qualified electrician and as such I trust he would have pointed out if there was any problem. Building regulation inspection went without any problems not that they would pick up every thing.

Maybe an email to the suppliers could provide reassurance. I know Phillips do a similar product, maybe their literature provides some guidance.