Part P - electrical installation

[stewamax]

It seems clear from reading the current Building Regs that installing a "new circuit" needs someone with Part P qualification to issue an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate to confirm that it complies.
A new circuit taken directly off a new slot in the consumer unit obviously qualifies.
But:
Q: is a spur taken off an existing circuit? My logic says that it should (because of additional loading on the ring if nothing else) but it is also not a 'new circuit' nor a 'rewire' ?

And a separate related question:
Q: When a Part P qualified electrician issues an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate, must the latter be lodged also with Building Control by the electrician or by the customer, or does the customer just hang on to it.

[Itsallaguess]

If only we knew someone that had only recently passed their 18th Edition Wiring Regs exam.....

Hopefully he'll be along soon to help out!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[chas49]

It seems clear from reading the current Building Regs that installing a "new circuit" needs someone with Part P qualification to issue an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate to confirm that it complies.
A new circuit taken directly off a new slot in the consumer unit obviously qualifies.
But:
Q: is a spur taken off an existing circuit? My logic says that it should (because of additional loading on the ring if nothing else) but it is also not a 'new circuit' nor a 'rewire' ?

The relevant regulation (relating to the requirement to notify) relates to

(c) any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location

and defines a special location (essentially a bathroom or shower room)

AIUI a spur such as you describe is only notifiable in a special location....

[Maroochydore]

And a separate related question:
Q: When a Part P qualified electrician issues an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate, must the latter be lodged also with Building Control by the electrician or by the customer, or does the customer just hang on to it.

I'm not sure what the 'right' way is but I had a replacement consumer unit installed and received the Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate given to me by the contractor.

About 5 months later I received the Building Regulations Certifcate of Compliance direct from NICEIC.

I assume the contractor lodged his papers with NICEIC and they processed them.

I don't know whether this is the correct way or not but it's what happened to me.

[csearle]

It seems clear from reading the current Building Regs that installing a "new circuit" needs someone with Part P qualification to issue an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate to confirm that it complies.
A new circuit taken directly off a new slot in the consumer unit obviously qualifies.

Happily DIY continues to be a thing in this country so there is still a route to installing a new circuit that does not involve an electrician.

Part P is not a qualification, it is just a section of the building regulations.

In the case of a new circuit, in the UK, whoever installs it is required to produce an electrical installation certificate (EIC). There is no fixed form for this but (since 1 Jan 2019) it must contain certain minimum information as set out in BS7671 Ed. 18.

Part P of the building regs stipulates that certain work must be notified to the local authority. The owner/occupier is then issued with a card called a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate that just says that notifiable work has been carried out. This can be done online by an electrician who is a member of a Part P scheme, e.g. NAPIT, NICEIC, etc., or directly to the local authority by a DIYer (prior to the work being carried out). For a couple of years now electricians have also been allowed to notify DIY work of other people to the local authority. They should satisfy themsleves that the work has been carried out to BS7671. They do this by looking at the installation at various stages so they can see how cables etc. are installed before they are hidden from view.

But:
Q: is a spur taken off an existing circuit? My logic says that it should (because of additional loading on the ring if nothing else) but it is also not a 'new circuit' nor a 'rewire' ?

No, circuit additions are not notifiable per se. But, like any other changes to the fixed installation they do require a certificate, not an EIC, but a minor works certificate (see BS7671), which is much simpler than an EIC. As chas49 says though, if the addition enters a special location, then it becomes notifiable.

And a separate related question:
Q: When a Part P qualified electrician issues an electrical installation report and a Building Regs compliance certificate, must the latter be lodged also with Building Control by the electrician or by the customer, or does the customer just hang on to it.

The EIC is issued by the electrician, who notifies the local authority (aka Building Control) who, in turn, issues the Building Regulations Compliance Certificate*.

If the electrician doing the installation is not a member of a Part P scheme then he too is effectively a DIYer and must notify work to the the local authority in advance of the work being carried out (or get an electrician on board that can do the notification online).

Chris

* Seems the Part P scheme operator can issue it on behalf of the local authority whist they action the notification.

[csearle]

About 5 months later I received the Building Regulations Certifcate of Compliance direct from NICEIC.

The 5 months is the contractor's delay. These things get sent out by some automated system within a week of the contractor going online and filling out the information. I think maybe the local authority (LA) have allowed/instructed the Part P scheme operators to do the actual issuing of the little notification certificates once the LA has had the notification.

Chris

[bungeejumper]

Happy to be corrected, but the way I recall it, you can replace both cabling and fittings without certification as long as you're not materially altering the ring-main circuit. My mate was refitting his kitchen recently and needed to move a buried cable three feet sideways because it was (a) in the wrong place for his new cooker and (b) running in a 45 degree diagonal direction! He was advised that this would be OK for him to do, even though he was physically replacing a length of ring main cable. He also upped his double sockets to quads while he was at it, sensible chap.

AFAIK, spurs are generally fine as long as you don't have more than one of them running off any one power point. And as long as you don't position them stupidly, such as close to a sink or suchlike. (Most of our bedrooms have wash basins but no other bathroomy characteristics.) Outdoor circuits always need to be certified, I think? And beyond that, Darwin's evolutionary principle largely sets the terms of the debate.

BJ

[csearle]

Happy to be corrected, but the way I recall it, you can replace both cabling and fittings without certification as long as you're not materially altering the ring-main circuit. My mate was refitting his kitchen recently and needed to move a buried cable three feet sideways because it was (a) in the wrong place for his new cooker and (b) running in a 45 degree diagonal direction! He was advised that this would be OK for him to do, even though he was physically replacing a length of ring main cable. He also upped his double sockets to quads while he was at it, sensible chap.

You can replace any part* of the fixed wiring without certification or notification if you replace like-for-like using the same routes.

The advice was not quite right because of the re-routing of the cooker cable - but being pragmatic about it the result was an increase in safety as a result probably of that advice so not a bad outcome. He shouldn't have added socket outlets without producing a minor works certificate where the polarity, continuity of the Earth connexion, insulation resistance, RCD tripping times and the Earth fault Loop impedance would have been recorded. The important bit is doing the tests rather than having a certificate otherwise he'd be just guessing that the original circuit was suitable for alteration.

AFAIK, spurs are generally fine as long as you don't have more than one of them running off any one power point. And as long as you don't position them stupidly, such as close to a sink or suchlike. (Most of our bedrooms have wash basins but no other bathroomy characteristics.) Outdoor circuits always need to be certified, I think? And beyond that, Darwin's evolutionary principle largely sets the terms of the debate.

The number of spurs coming off a point is not specifically limited. There is a limit though. You must not have more spurs off a ring main than there are points of utilisation on the ring main. In practice the size of the terminals at the sockets can be the limitation.

The guidelines about the positioning of socket outlets makes no reference to whether they are on a radial, a ring main, or a spur off a ring main. There is a guideline suggesting socket outlets be 300mm from sinks and drainers. There is a regulation in bathrooms (but that is concerned with proximity to baths and showers).

All circuits, not just outdoors must be certified when installed (unless it is a like-for-like exchange). Outdoor circuits must be notified to the local authority but this excludes cables installed such that they arrive at outdoor accessories directly from within the building.

Just one note of caution, just because something works it does not necessarily mean it is safe, because various criteria need to be fulfilled in order that the protective devices in your consumer unit actually disconnect the supply before that electric shock becomes lethal (rather than just after). If in doubt, check with your electrician what you intend to do before doing it, follow any advice offered, and get the new bits tested afterwards (absolute minimum would be the so called Zs and the RCD reaction times).

Chris

* In terms or wiring this means ring mains, spurs off them, radial circuits, distribution circuits, the lot. Accessories too if they are effectively like for like.