Travertine Stone Floor

[UncleEbenezer]

I've just had an offer accepted on a house.

It's in an old building with some character, and I'll be wanting to redecorate the main living room. I'm minded to put in a stone floor with underfloor heating, and browsing the websites, my favourite option for it looks like a rough silver travertine, such as https://www.floorsofstone.com/our-tile- ... tine-tiles or https://www.stonesuperstore.co.uk/silve ... -tumbled-2 .

My reservation about that is that the honeycomb holes in travertine might become a dirt-trap, acquiring things like dust and hairs and maybe food that could be hard to clean. So my question to Fools is, does anyone have (or know someone who has) a travertine floor, and what's it like to live with in practice?

p.s. No lemons. Acid is definitely bad for stone floors.

[redsturgeon]

Travertine is attractive to look at but not the most practical floor. It is quite soft and not hardwearing, you can get it with the holes filled which is more practical but less attractive IMHO. I had some in a bathroom once which was fine but I probably would choose it for a living room. Limestone is a more practical choice and come in a large range of styles and tones.

John

[Itsallaguess]

So my question to Fools is, does anyone have (or know someone who has) a travertine floor, and what's it like to live with in practice?

This is likely to be a long term, expensive job, so as well as asking here it might also be worthwhile having a read of (or even asking on..) a good tile-specific forum too -

https://www.tilersforums.co.uk/search/13710278/?q=travertine&o=date

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[dspp]

My experience with travertine floors is that they get grubby quickly, and are difficult to keep clean.

If you do go down the solid/tiled floor route I think you are quite correct to put in underfloor heating. But make sure it is wet loop (not electric), and that there is a insulation layer buried well down.

regards, dspp

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I've just had an offer accepted on a house.

It's in an old building with some character, and I'll be wanting to redecorate the main living room. I'm minded to put in a stone floor with underfloor heating, and browsing the websites, my favourite option for it looks like a rough silver travertine, such as https://www.floorsofstone.com/our-tile- ... tine-tiles or https://www.stonesuperstore.co.uk/silve ... -tumbled-2 .

My reservation about that is that the honeycomb holes in travertine might become a dirt-trap, acquiring things like dust and hairs and maybe food that could be hard to clean. So my question to Fools is, does anyone have (or know someone who has) a travertine floor, and what's it like to live with in practice?

p.s. No lemons. Acid is definitely bad for stone floors.

If I recall correctly I think these kind of floors should be sealed Sorry my bad

https://www.pureadhesion.co.uk/tile-sea ... alers.html

May I also humbly suggest that you consider a good depth of PIR Insulation. More than 100mm. Otherwise much of your underfloor heat will be lost and the running costs will be high.

AiY

[UncleEbenezer]

If I recall correctly I think these kind of floors should be sealed Sorry my bad
AiY

Indeed, that's part of the instructions. Seal twice during installation: once before and again after grouting. And reseal every couple of years.

But that's not the same as filling the holes in travertine, which is what I'm worried about. Filled travertine has a somewhat-different character: both the vendors I linked to offer filled variants, which are smoother and ... would be great for a different room. Other options would be a stone without the holes, such as a marble, limestone, or slate.

I've taken a look at itsallaguess's link. I don't see anything directly relevant there, but it looks like a place to ask.

[UncleEbenezer]

My experience with travertine floors is that they get grubby quickly, and are difficult to keep clean.

If you do go down the solid/tiled floor route I think you are quite correct to put in underfloor heating. But make sure it is wet loop (not electric), and that there is a insulation layer buried well down.

regards, dspp

Thanks for the reply.

Is that with unfilled travertine, or the (smoother) honed and filled? Is it those holes that are the issue, or would you expect the same on other stones that aren't honed/polished to a smooth surface?

And, any strong reasons why not electric heating? I've seen recommendations both ways there.

[dspp]

My experience with travertine floors is that they get grubby quickly, and are difficult to keep clean.

If you do go down the solid/tiled floor route I think you are quite correct to put in underfloor heating. But make sure it is wet loop (not electric), and that there is a insulation layer buried well down.

regards, dspp

Thanks for the reply.

Is that with unfilled travertine, or the (smoother) honed and filled? Is it those holes that are the issue, or would you expect the same on other stones that aren't honed/polished to a smooth surface?

And, any strong reasons why not electric heating? I've seen recommendations both ways there.

It is either the unfilled travertine version, or the not well looked after version, I'm not sure which. I've not seen the same issues on more solid and more competent stone, except for some softer limestone. But that does create 'character' after a while

Electric costs £0.15/kWh in running costs, wet loop costs £0.05/kWh in running costs. So wet loop costs only a third as much to run. Electric is so expensive you'll be ripping the fuses out, putting in wall mounted radiators, and grumbling because the floor is dank and cold. So whilst I am all in favor of solid floors in cold countries, that is provided there is wet loop heating underneath them, and provided that there is 500mm ( = 50cm = 0.5m) of celotex or equiv insulation underneath that. Otherwise you will be heating some lovely comfortable worms.

regards, dspp

[redsturgeon]

. So whilst I am all in favor of solid floors in cold countries, that is provided there is wet loop heating underneath them, and provided that there is 500mm ( = 50cm = 0.5m) of celotex or equiv insulation underneath that. Otherwise you will be heating some lovely comfortable worms.

regards, dspp

Are you serious!

500mm !!!

The standard thickness of 100mm is over 60 quid a sheet so you are talking somewhere in the region of £100 per sq metre for 500mm of insulation board. My recently completed extension at 66 sq metres would be £6000 quid to insulate!

John

[dspp]

. So whilst I am all in favor of solid floors in cold countries, that is provided there is wet loop heating underneath them, and provided that there is 500mm ( = 50cm = 0.5m) of celotex or equiv insulation underneath that. Otherwise you will be heating some lovely comfortable worms.

regards, dspp

Are you serious!

500mm !!!

The standard thickness of 100mm is over 60 quid a sheet so you are talking somewhere in the region of £100 per sq metre for 500mm of insulation board. My recently completed extension at 66 sq metres would be £6000 quid to insulate!

John

Oops, sorry, bit exag there, my apologies. It is about 0.5m of excavation required (150+50+100+100+65=465mm to be precise), of which only 100mm is the celotex. Here are my three building regs & contract boilerplate floor specs that I've used in various situations in case others want to copy. I'd happily double the celotex if funds allowed mind you.

************************************
FLOORS

Solid Floor Construction

New solid floor in kitchen
150mm hard-core covered with 50mm sand blinding, lay 1200 guage polythene DPM, 100mm concrete floor slab (C20), 100mm ‘Celotex’ or ‘Ecotherm or similar approved slab insulation and 65mm cement screed 1:3, with mesh reinforcement where necessary.
Provide vapour control layer between floor screed and insulation.

Floor insulation to be run up against existing wall to top of finished floor level to avoid ‘cold bridging’.

Underfloor heating wet system to design and client’s choice .

Floor finishes to client’s choice over new and existing solid floor .

Existing solid floor in kitchen
Minimum 40mm ‘Celotex’ or ‘Ecotherm or similar approved slab insulation and 65mm cement screed 1:3, with mesh reinforcement where necessary.
Provide vapour control layer between floor screed and insulation.


Existing sitting / dining room sprung floor (i.e. timber planks on timber joists)
Insulate between joists from below to full depth of joists. Staple or otherwise fix tyvek or equivalent housewrap below as draught prevention. Take care not to run insulation or wrap to edges, so as to prevent damp ingress.
***********

Hope that helps. If the floors are are very large area, then some economisation can be achieved by digging deeper at the perimeter and putting celotex (etc) deeper there, and putting a thinner layer in the main (central) area, or even none in the central area. The point is that the greatest loss is heat that goes down and sideways outwith the floor area (i.e. to outside the house) whereas heat that goes straight down and straight back up is not so great a concern. But I think you have to go to quite large floors to adopt such a viewpoint, and then it begins to depend on exactly what sort of ground it is being built on - dry chalk is quite a good insulator, waterlogged gravels are not.

regards, dspp

[UncleEbenezer]

It is either the unfilled travertine version, or the not well looked after version, I'm not sure which. I've not seen the same issues on more solid and more competent stone, except for some softer limestone.

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like precisely what I was concerned about.

Electric costs £0.15/kWh in running costs, wet loop costs £0.05/kWh in running costs.
regards, dspp

OK, I'm not so concerned about that, given that I basically only use if if I'm ill or if I have people around. Not to mention that that gap may well close over time, especially if we ever have a government that cares about 'saving the planet' and shifts the balance in favour of clean energy and making polluters pay.

Anyway, the question now looks academic. I had another call from the estate agent: they've changed their mind. Bah, Humbug.

[dspp]

Electric costs £0.15/kWh in running costs, wet loop costs £0.05/kWh in running costs.
regards, dspp

OK, I'm not so concerned about that, given that I basically only use if if I'm ill or if I have people around. Not to mention that that gap may well close over time, especially if we ever have a government that cares about 'saving the planet' and shifts the balance in favour of clean energy and making polluters pay.

UE,
I appreciate that this is no longer relevant to you, but it may be relevant to others. With pretty much any underfloor heating you can't quickly switch it on & off, so popping it on just for visitors doesn't really work. It is because the thermal mass is so great. That in turn makes the running costs so much more of an issue. On the wet loop vs electric your rationale would be sound, except that heat pumps are a good way of amplifying electric into heat. So with a typical COP of 3, then 1 unit of electric yields 3 units of heat. So the 5p vs 15p running costs would still hold true in the future if (as is likely) a ASHP or GSHP would be the wet loop source. Anyway, sorry to hear the sale has fallen through.
regards,
dspp