Cellotex Fire Hazard ?

[richlist]

I hear that the Grenfell Tower residents association is taking legal action in the USA against 3 companies who they feel are responsible for the fire. The firm who supplied the aluminium cladding, Whirlpool and Cellotex.

Many of us have Cellotex in our properties so following events to see how it turns out might be of interest.

[k333]

A Guugle search for Celotex (one l) does yield some results from page 5 onwards. Apparently some of the 5000 series products have been withdrawn from sale, but I guess you have no way of knowing the part number that you have.

- K

[swill453]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

Scott.

[richlist]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

Scott.

Providing your house doesn't catch fire perhaps ?

[dspp]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

Scott.

Providing your house doesn't catch fire perhaps ?

And provided your house isn't a multistorey skyscraper with a chimney all around the outside essentially built of the stuff, and with none of the correct fire-breaks installed.

I'm entirely relaxed about the celotex and other similar insulated plasterboards in my (far smaller) house.

regards, dspp

[supremetwo]

Most of us have domestic appliances and these are the cause of many fires - 60 per week according to this article:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43056887

However, the manufacturers must comply with CE standards to sell in the EU so it is those standards that appear to be lacking.

As a former member of a British Standards panel, I consider that the scrutiny of CE is lacking.

[bungeejumper]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

I have a vague memory of reading that Celotex was euro-certified for buildings of up to four storeys, but not beyond. Which, if correct, would seem to put the blame right back with whoever approved it for this use - the architect, the planning department and various others.

I haven't double-checked on that recollection, though. Others may care to.

BJ

[dspp]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

I have a vague memory of reading that Celotex was euro-certified for buildings of up to four storeys, but not beyond. Which, if correct, would seem to put the blame right back with whoever approved it for this use - the architect, the planning department and various others.

I haven't double-checked on that recollection, though. Others may care to.

BJ

My understanding so far is that there were many errors, including but not limited to those you have mentioned. I hope the investigation sets out the facts clearly and thereby dispels any myths & confusion.

regards, dspp

[richlist]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

I have a vague memory of reading that Celotex was euro-certified for buildings of up to four storeys, but not beyond. Which, if correct, would seem to put the blame right back with whoever approved it for this use - the architect, the planning department and various others.

I haven't double-checked on that recollection, though. Others may care to.

BJ

If the Cellotex (in terms of manufacture and fitting) fully meets building regulations in the UK then it's likely to be more a case of building regulations not being fit for purpose.

My understanding is that the reason the case is being taken in the USA is because the law is different and manufacturers/ suppliers can be held liable for their products irrespective of them meeting regulations.

[dspp]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

I have a vague memory of reading that Celotex was euro-certified for buildings of up to four storeys, but not beyond. Which, if correct, would seem to put the blame right back with whoever approved it for this use - the architect, the planning department and various others.

I haven't double-checked on that recollection, though. Others may care to.

BJ

If the Cellotex (in terms of manufacture and fitting) fully meets building regulations in the UK then it's likely to be more a case of building regulations not being fit for purpose.

My understanding is that the reason the case is being taken in the USA is because the law is different and manufacturers/ suppliers can be held liable for their products irrespective of them meeting regulations.

Quite apart from anything else, Grenfell was more than 4 storeys high.

There is plenty wrong in this case without adding misunderstanding by onlookers to the mix.

- dspp

[richlist]

Yes I agree this is a complex issue. There is no misunderstanding......Cellotex is a well known, popular product used in many applications and it's likely some will be interested in the findings and how it might affect them and their properties.

[DrFfybes]

Yes I agree this is a complex issue. There is no misunderstanding......Cellotex is a well known, popular product used in many applications and it's likely some will be interested in the findings and how it might affect them and their properties.

Celotex is just one brand name, often used in a generic context for Rigid Foam Insulation, like Hoover is for vacuum cleaner. There are also many different typed of RFI with different foam compounds (although I don't know what uses what).

Kingspan, Recticel, Metzeler, Ecotherm, etc all sell the same sort of product, all could face similar issues or action.

Paul

[richlist]

It was specifically Cellotex that was used in Grenfell and it's specifically Cellotex against whom legal action is being taken.

[csearle]

It was specifically Cellotex that was used in Grenfell and it's specifically Cellotex against whom legal action is being taken.

No, Celotex was used. C.

[dspp]

It was specifically Cellotex that was used in Grenfell and it's specifically Cellotex against whom legal action is being taken.

No, Celotex was used. C.

Even within the Kingspan product range there are many different cellotexes. But in any case how it is used is as important as whether it is used. I'm the last person to defend Kingspan - they used to be a competitor of mine - but there is a lot more to Grenfell than just the insulation used. I'm not necessarily saying that the insulation used is devoid of blame by the way, just that there are many factors that need to be dispassionately investigated and reported on. I hope that the enquiry is up to the job.

regards, dspp

[bionichamster]

I guess it's how you use the product as well. We all have wood in our houses, but you wouldn't use it to clad a multi-story. Likewise Cellotex products may be perfectly safe in other applications.

Scott.

Providing your house doesn't catch fire perhaps ?

As previously noted, most houses have lots of wood in their structure. I also have loads of books and vinyl records, lots of clothes hanging in (wooden) wardrobes, carpets, sofas, wooden furniture etc all that stuff will burn once the temperature is hot enough and there’s oxygen. The fact that there’s several sheets of celotex in my attic does not give me any additional concern.

Bh

[pochisoldi]

The fact that there’s several sheets of celotex in my attic does not give me any additional concern.

In most lofts, the empty cardboard boxes stored there are more of a risk than the insulation...