The Lemon Fool

I'm not very good with plumbing.

I want to buy something like this

Then I want to power it up. I'm assuming I need a transformer?

The valve will be opened for two minutes per day using an electric timer clock.

Thank you for any help in advance

AiY
Masters degree plumbing & heating

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:I'm not very good with plumbing.

I want to buy something like this

Then I want to power it up. I'm assuming I need a transformer?

The valve will be opened for two minutes per day using an electric timer clock.

Thank you for any help in advance

AiY
Masters degree plumbing & heating

Why would you need a transformer? That valve is designed to operate using UK mains domestic power. Standard heating controls switch UK mains voltages.

Unless of course you live on a boat. In which case you might be better seeking a 24V valve.

Thanks - something like this I think?

AiY

Might help if you filled in a few details of what you are hoping to use the solenoid valve for.

Something to do with the fish tank I would guess. The first one should work fine but of course with ebay stuff, there are few guarantees and endless ways for a purchase to go guppies-up!

Mike4 wrote:Might help if you filled in a few details of what you are hoping to use the solenoid valve for.

Something to do with the fish tank I would guess. The first one should work fine but of course with ebay stuff, there are few guarantees and endless ways for a purchase to go guppies-up!

Yes it's for the fish tanks.

Currently the fish tanks are semi automatic for emptying and filling. We're now going completely automatic. This valve will provide part of the emptying process.

So at [say] 6am the valve will be opened for two minutes. Approximately 8.5 litres of water will empty from the tank. About 3% of the tank's total water volume. The tank will then be "topped" up using electronic timers and a "Guardian" system which prevents over-filling.

I want to use a mains powered solenoid valve to do this. My initial option was to use a hose timer. It's analogue and needs batteries and essentially doesn't have the options I need for timing. Plus changing batteries seems painful.

The pipework used to empty the tank is hosepipe. I use Hozelock parts to connect to the mains.

I have no idea if I need an earthed fitting.

And yes I don't buy anything from foreign places. That dogs bitten me already.

Thank you

AiY

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Might help if you filled in a few details of what you are hoping to use the solenoid valve for.

Something to do with the fish tank I would guess. The first one should work fine but of course with ebay stuff, there are few guarantees and endless ways for a purchase to go guppies-up!

Yes it's for the fish tanks.

Currently the fish tanks are semi automatic for emptying and filling. We're now going completely automatic. This valve will provide part of the emptying process.

So at [say] 6am the valve will be opened for two minutes. Approximately 8.5 litres of water will empty from the tank. About 3% of the tank's total water volume. The tank will then be "topped" up using electronic timers and a "Guardian" system which prevents over-filling.

I want to use a mains powered solenoid valve to do this. My initial option was to use a hose timer. It's analogue and needs batteries and essentially doesn't have the options I need for timing. Plus changing batteries seems painful.

The pipework used to empty the tank is hosepipe. I use Hozelock parts to connect to the mains.

I have no idea if I need an earthed fitting.

And yes I don't buy anything from foreign places. That dogs bitten me already.

Thank you

AiY

Ok I expect the first-linked valve will do the draining fine.

I'm more intrigued about how you will time it's OPEN period to two minutes and how you know 8.5 litres will drain out, not 7.5 or 9.5!

And what the motive force will be. A syphon? Or have you drilled a hole through the glass?

Mike4 wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Might help if you filled in a few details of what you are hoping to use the solenoid valve for.

Something to do with the fish tank I would guess. The first one should work fine but of course with ebay stuff, there are few guarantees and endless ways for a purchase to go guppies-up!

Yes it's for the fish tanks.

Currently the fish tanks are semi automatic for emptying and filling. We're now going completely automatic. This valve will provide part of the emptying process.

So at [say] 6am the valve will be opened for two minutes. Approximately 8.5 litres of water will empty from the tank. About 3% of the tank's total water volume. The tank will then be "topped" up using electronic timers and a "Guardian" system which prevents over-filling.

I want to use a mains powered solenoid valve to do this. My initial option was to use a hose timer. It's analogue and needs batteries and essentially doesn't have the options I need for timing. Plus changing batteries seems painful.

The pipework used to empty the tank is hosepipe. I use Hozelock parts to connect to the mains.

I have no idea if I need an earthed fitting.

And yes I don't buy anything from foreign places. That dogs bitten me already.

Thank you

AiY

Ok I expect the first-linked valve will do the draining fine.

I'm more intrigued about how you will time it's OPEN period to two minutes and how you know 8.5 litres will drain out, not 7.5 or 9.5!

And what the motive force will be. A syphon? Or have you drilled a hole through the glass?

Cheers Mike. What I'm struggling to understand is the name of the firkin that connects to the two prongs

The draining system can work on gravity but it's also connected to a small pump. Gravity syphoning is about 3.25L/min. Pumped syphoning is about 4.25L/min. We calculated that by opening the valve and allowing the water to go into a bucket. We then measured the water in the bucket.

We haven't drilled a hole through the glass. Although to my infinite shame I did drill through a pipe in the downstairs toilet when connecting up.

In all this the drainage rate doesn't have to be totally accurate. Because we will measure the water parameters at the end of the week. We replace the water in both tanks with RODI (Reverse Osmosis De-Ionised) water. We then add back the good stuff the fish need to live and thrive.

Appreciate you're feedback greatly Mike

AiY

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Cheers Mike. What I'm struggling to understand is the name of the firkin that connects to the two prongs

Ah now those are called the firkin wires. They will have 230Vac on the brown one and 0Vac on the blue, the presence of which will cause the valve to open. When the 230Vac is withdrawn from the brown firkin wire, the valve will close.

How are you planning to switch the 230Vac on the brown wire on and off??

I spect you don't know, and that is really the root of your question.... yes/no?

Mike4 wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Cheers Mike. What I'm struggling to understand is the name of the firkin that connects to the two prongs

Ah now those are called the firkin wires. They will have 230Vac on the brown one and 0Vac on the blue, the presence of which will cause the valve to open. When the 230Vac is withdrawn from the brown firkin wire, the valve will close.

How are you planning to switch the 230Vac on the brown wire on and off??

I spect you don't know, and that is really the root of your question.... yes/no?

Hell the electricians inquisition

But yes ... I think you've about understood my shortfall

AiY

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Cheers Mike. What I'm struggling to understand is the name of the firkin that connects to the two prongs

Ah now those are called the firkin wires. They will have 230Vac on the brown one and 0Vac on the blue, the presence of which will cause the valve to open. When the 230Vac is withdrawn from the brown firkin wire, the valve will close.

How are you planning to switch the 230Vac on the brown wire on and off??

I spect you don't know, and that is really the root of your question.... yes/no?

Hell the electricians inquisition

But yes ... I think you've about understood my shortfall

AiY

Ok. There will be a Chinese PCB for about a fiver that does this on Amazon or ebay. Or something English the same for perhaps fifty quids. Once you have bought it you will need to do the hard bits, these being finding, downloading and configuring the app to yer smartfone, and also devising a way of mounting the PCB safely inside some sort of housing.

That's about the extent of my knowledge on it.....

I'm pretty sure you can get battery operated valves that people use to water their gardens. This may be a better way to go, rather than messing around with the firkin wires.

pompeygazza wrote:I'm pretty sure you can get battery operated valves that people use to water their gardens. This may be a better way to go, rather than messing around with the firkin wires.

Hi,

Thank you for the advice. Yes they are what I already have, albeit I have to replace them as I bought cheap analogue and they don't quite provide the timings I need. I was trying to understand how to put a cost effective solenoid valve onto the system and power it from a plug timer as it would do away with the need for changing batteries. Seems easy enough until you realise how little I know about this sort of detail

AiY

just get a power supply for the battery one. It'll be a lot safer and a lot simpler to rig up. You'll be better off using the current timers you have and restricting the flow to get the rate you need, no need to fiddle with timings then.

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

pompeygazza wrote:I'm pretty sure you can get battery operated valves that people use to water their gardens. This may be a better way to go, rather than messing around with the firkin wires.

Hi,

Thank you for the advice. Yes they are what I already have, albeit I have to replace them as I bought cheap analogue and they don't quite provide the timings I need. I was trying to understand how to put a cost effective solenoid valve onto the system and power it from a plug timer as it would do away with the need for changing batteries. Seems easy enough until you realise how little I know about this sort of detail

AiY

OK I am going to suggest you look for a DC 12V normally closed momentary valve and connect it to a power supply on your timed/switched plug
- something like:
this valve https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12-24V-G1-2-NC-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Normally-Closed-Water-Inlet-Valve/293273109802
and this supply https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-1A-2A-AC-DC-UK-Power-Supply-Adapter-Safety-Charger-For-LED-Strip-CCTV-Camera

I like to use sockets for the power connections like: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-1mm-Female-Socket-Jack-DC-Connector-with-Screw-Terminals - so I can swap things as I'm working out what I've done wrong

EDIT: the why is much less chance of killing yourself this way than running an AC powered valve and relays etc

- sd

servodude wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

pompeygazza wrote:I'm pretty sure you can get battery operated valves that people use to water their gardens. This may be a better way to go, rather than messing around with the firkin wires.

Hi,

Thank you for the advice. Yes they are what I already have, albeit I have to replace them as I bought cheap analogue and they don't quite provide the timings I need. I was trying to understand how to put a cost effective solenoid valve onto the system and power it from a plug timer as it would do away with the need for changing batteries. Seems easy enough until you realise how little I know about this sort of detail

AiY

OK I am going to suggest you look for a DC 12V normally closed momentary valve and connect it to a power supply on your timed/switched plug
- something like:
this valve https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12-24V-G1-2-NC-Brass-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Normally-Closed-Water-Inlet-Valve/293273109802
and this supply https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-1A-2A-AC-DC-UK-Power-Supply-Adapter-Safety-Charger-For-LED-Strip-CCTV-Camera

I like to use sockets for the power connections like: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-1mm-Female-Socket-Jack-DC-Connector-with-Screw-Terminals - so I can swap things as I'm working out what I've done wrong

EDIT: the why is much less chance of killing yourself this way than running an AC powered valve and relays etc

- sd

Moderator Message:
Try Supply and Sockets - Chris

Ah ha ... thanks servo and Chris ... I'll have a look over this and work it through. I was conscious that direct AC and water aren't a good mix :lol This may be something I am not capable of doing correctly

AiY