Why don't my doorknobs turn in either direction?

[Gilgongo]

I recently had some doors fitted as part of a loft conversion and bought rose knobs with latches like these:

http://www.morehandles.co.uk/tubular-la ... rough.html

When fitted by the carpenter who did the doors, I was surprised to find that the handles only turn one way. Did I buy the wrong latches? I expected a quick Google on the subject of "door knobs only opening one way" would put me straight on this, but that's not the case.

[staffordian]

I don't know if it is relevant, but 99% of doors use handles rather than knobs (in fact IIRC knobs are illegal in some countries as they are harder for some disabled people to use).

Handles normally only operate downwards, so maybe the latches tend to be made with this in mind?

Staffordian

[Gilgongo]

"Handles normally only operate downwards, so maybe the latches tend to be made with this in mind?"

That's why I thought I'd initially bought latches for handles and that I just needed to switch them, schoolboy error style. But nowhere can I find anything that says "these are for door knobs so open either way." Other doors in my house have 1970's style flat latches which do open both ways. So now these ones look the same, but constantly threatened to break my wrist if I don't remember they only open one way before I twist them. Huungh!

EDIT (thanks TLF!): Have a look at this "totally everything you need to know" page which - stunningly - is silent on the matter! Surely I can't be the only person in Christendom to have wondered about this?

http://www.morehandles.co.uk/blog/More- ... ur-project

[ten0rman]

From what I remember when fitting handles & latches many years ago, the latches were indeed usable either way up, but the handles themselves had a mechanical stop built in to prevent them being lifted instead of being pressed down. Hence the levers were handed. I wonder if this is what has been done to your knobs.

If you think about it, all the latches have to do is to withdraw the sliding part out of the striker plate and this is done by something on the rotating part of the latch which can operate in either direction without any problem. There is also a simple compression spring which pushes the bolt outwards, the rotating part of the latch acting against this spring, ie compressing it. The levers, on the other hand, in my experience are fitted with a rotary spring to make the lever return to horizontal. Therefore, turning the lever up, whilst not bothering the latch one bit, would mean that instead of winding up the rotary spring, you would be trying to undo it. My experience is that the latch springs are weakish, so the latch spring and the lever springs work together to allow the bolt to move out. (I have a number of levers where the rotary spring has broken and this makes the action somewhat iffy. It seems to me that your knobs may have an internal, rotary spring for the same reason, in which case they would indeed be handed.

Regards,

ten0rman

[quelquod]

Never seen a latch with a 'stop' - normally they self-centre in the closed position but can be rotated either way. It would be quite awkward otherwise as you need to be able to fit the latch either way up to get the tongue facing correctly depending on which way the door closes. As ten0rman points out, lever handles have a stop to prevent them from resting at an unattractive angle, but most round knobs would hardly need that. The stop is in the faceplate of course - have your knobs been fitted to faceplates which could equally well be suited to levers perhaps?

[Gilgongo]

I'm not sure I fully understand all of the explanation given, but thanks for replies. I will be varnishing the doors in a few weeks time so will be removing the fittings as part of that. So I can then inspect the doorknobs to see if they have a stop inside them that's responsible for this behaviour.

Fundamentally though, I can't understand why round doorknobs would be designed only to rotate in a single direction, assuming that the latch can open from either. What purpose does that serve (other than possibly something to do with weak latch springs)? This is particularly odd given that my (four) older door handles operate just fine either way.

Perhaps it will be clearer when I inspect the handles. I might be able to disable the stop in some way if they have that.

[MoreHandles]

Good Morning from More Handles - Architectural Ironmongers.

A moderator has invited us to respond to the query on this forum and we are happy to help. As you have all identified many, if not most, tubular latches are now manufactured with the spring system operating in only one direction. This allows for a higher quality spring to be fitted and of course is suitable for most applications. However, it does affect the operation of a door knob as it will not allow the knob to be turned in both directions to retract the latch.

Door knobs are usually supplied un-sprung and so can, in theory, be turned in either direction. However, please note that if the door knob itself has an integral spring system fitted in the rose then this will also only allow the knob to operate in one direction regardless of the latch mechanism used.

You will be pleased to know that there are still some latches that are manufactured with a spring system that operates in both directions. Please feel free to contact us directly on 01228 516516 and we can recommend the correct latch and size for your requirements.

More Handles Team

[Gilgongo]

Wow - thanks More Handles. I think that clears up the issue nicely!