Outbuildings vs Extensions

[Matello7777]

Hi
Apologies if this is the wrong forum, I wondered if it should go in Does Anyone Know but as this is a building specific question it seemed more appropriate to post my question here.
We have an old (freezing in winter boiling in summer) conservatory.
We were thinking of building a new conservatory/orangery/Garden room and opening this up so there's no door between the new conservatory and the main part of the house.
I recently discovered that a conservatory is classed as an outbuilding however I have been told that as it is classed as an outbuilding there should be a door between that and the main part of the house.

We want a light room like a conservatory but with more brick for better insulation. However at what point does something go from being classed as an outbuilding to not an outbuilding?
Thank you
Mark

[redsturgeon]

Generally an outbuilding is not attached to the main dwelling and they are subject to different regulations to extensions.

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wi ... definition

There should be no problem getting an extension put up in its place, assuming you are not a listed building. Lots of options are available to achieve the result you are after and with modern glazing and insulation it will be comfortable year round and will not need doors to separate it from the rest of the house.

John

[UncleEbenezer]

There should be no problem getting an extension put up in its place, assuming you are not a listed building. Lots of options are available to achieve the result you are after and with modern glazing and insulation it will be comfortable year round and will not need doors to separate it from the rest of the house.

John

A conservation area might be an issue, even if the building isn't listed.

With modern glazing and insulation the remaining issue will be summer heat when the sun beats down on you. For a somewhat comparable situation, I have an outside awning blind, fully see-through, which I recently unfurled for the season. It'll go down again in the autumn, when the risk of too-hot is gone and that of chilly is reappearing. It does a pretty good job of reducing that heat.

[redsturgeon]

There should be no problem getting an extension put up in its place, assuming you are not a listed building. Lots of options are available to achieve the result you are after and with modern glazing and insulation it will be comfortable year round and will not need doors to separate it from the rest of the house.

John

A conservation area might be an issue, even if the building isn't listed.

With modern glazing and insulation the remaining issue will be summer heat when the sun beats down on you. For a somewhat comparable situation, I have an outside awning blind, fully see-through, which I recently unfurled for the season. It'll go down again in the autumn, when the risk of too-hot is gone and that of chilly is reappearing. It does a pretty good job of reducing that heat.

We built a large extension on our Edwardian house in a conservation area a couple of years ago, I can't remember any extra restrictions being put on us, although there might be a case of have to ask permission for some things that would be automatically allowed otherwise.

Modern glazing can be coated to minimise the effect of the sun and the building designed in such a way to passively minimise solar gain ie, restricting too much south facing glass and strategically designed overhangs to limit ingress of direct midday sun during the summer months while still allowing low angle sunlight in during the winter.

Also ensuring adequate ventilation on two sides to allow a through breeze.

We have 18 sq metres of west facing floor to ceiling sliding doors on our extension and too much solar gain has not been an issue.

John

[AsleepInYorkshire]

We have an old (freezing in winter boiling in summer) conservatory.

How big is this room please?

We were thinking of building a new conservatory/orangery/Garden room and opening this up so there's no door between the new conservatory and the main part of the house.

How big is this room please?
What direction is the elevation facing?

I recently discovered that a conservatory is classed as an outbuilding however I have been told that as it is classed as an outbuilding there should be a door between that and the main part of the house.

I think you're muddling this up with the building regulations as opposed to planning permission, but don't quote me.

We want a light room like a conservatory but with more brick for better insulation. However at what point does something go from being classed as an outbuilding to not an outbuilding?

Size. Height. Other stuff.
Bricks aren't a great insulator. However, I understand that you are saying you want more walls to insulate your new room.
Generally ...
Opt for a flat roof design.
Don't have orangery style canopies - use simple triple glazed skylights. Use solar gain prevention in at least one of the panes. Don't bother with venting them. You can vent elsewhere far more cost effectively.
Don't go mad on glass doors. (As a general rule 90% of the light from a "window/glass door" comes through the top 10% of the glass".)
Make sure you know how you will use the living space you create as this will help the designer (or at least it will help some of them - get the design wrong and it's all going to be a process in spending money for no gain)

AiY(D)

[88V8]

This 16'x8' south-facing dg conservatory that I built onto our previous house in 1991, iroko on dwarf walls with insulation, insulated slab, was heated by just two 1kw fan heaters to 40F in winter.

The summer sun was fended off by overhanging trees - a green solution that I highly recommend, in this case hazels - and air vents in the walls and roof provided a nice through-draught so it was never too hot.
Sadly, we sold the house to a couple of clods who cut down the trees

V8

[PhaseThree]

We want a light room like a conservatory but with more brick for better insulation. However at what point does something go from being classed as an outbuilding to not an outbuilding?

This comes down to building regulations and specifically whether the house and conservatory are two distinct thermal areas or are one single area. If you intend to remove the external doors between the two then you and up with a single thermal zone and the conservatory will need to be built to the same regulations as if you were building a full scale extension. If the doors remain in place then the conservatory is seen as a separate thermal area and doesn't need to meet building regs. (or at least not to the same extent).

EDIT - Found this which may help clarify things
https://fcdhomeimprovements.co.uk/conse ... extension/

[Matello7777]

We have an old (freezing in winter boiling in summer) conservatory.

How big is this room please?

We were thinking of building a new conservatory/orangery/Garden room and opening this up so there's no door between the new conservatory and the main part of the house.

How big is this room please?
What direction is the elevation facing?

I recently discovered that a conservatory is classed as an outbuilding however I have been told that as it is classed as an outbuilding there should be a door between that and the main part of the house.

I think you're muddling this up with the building regulations as opposed to planning permission, but don't quote me.

We want a light room like a conservatory but with more brick for better insulation. However at what point does something go from being classed as an outbuilding to not an outbuilding?

Size. Height. Other stuff.
Bricks aren't a great insulator. However, I understand that you are saying you want more walls to insulate your new room.
Generally ...
Opt for a flat roof design.
Don't have orangery style canopies - use simple triple glazed skylights. Use solar gain prevention in at least one of the panes. Don't bother with venting them. You can vent elsewhere far more cost effectively.
Don't go mad on glass doors. (As a general rule 90% of the light from a "window/glass door" comes through the top 10% of the glass".)
Make sure you know how you will use the living space you create as this will help the designer (or at least it will help some of them - get the design wrong and it's all going to be a process in spending money for no gain)

AiY(D)

The current conservatory is 3.4m x 3.6m.
The planned new one will be 3m x 4m. 4m side attached to house.
The main elevation is ESE facing. Plan to have a wall on SSW side as there's a fence 4-5 feet away and it's alongside a public footpath.
You're probably right, I am likely muddling up building regs and planning permission.
Why opt for a flat roof design? I generally don't like flat roofs.

Thanks for the tips. I'd assumed brick was a better insulator.
We currently have a polycaronate roof and I wondered whether we could get part tiles, part glazed roof that would let through as much like as a grotty old polycarbonate roof and be warmer too,

[redsturgeon]

We currently have a polycaronate roof and I wondered whether we could get part tiles, part glazed roof that would let through as much like as a grotty old polycarbonate roof and be warmer too,

Any combination of roof tiles and skylights is possible, if you are wedded to a pitched roof then Velux windows are a popular solution for skylights. Similarly with a flat roof which usually will work out cheaper any combination of skylights and solid roof is possible.

John

[AsleepInYorkshire]

The current conservatory is 3.4m x 3.6m.
The planned new one will be 3m x 4m. 4m side attached to house.
The main elevation is ESE facing. Plan to have a wall on SSW side as there's a fence 4-5 feet away and it's alongside a public footpath.
You're probably right, I am likely muddling up building regs and planning permission.
Why opt for a flat roof design? I generally don't like flat roofs.

Thanks for the tips. I'd assumed brick was a better insulator.
We currently have a polycarbonate roof and I wondered whether we could get part tiles, part glazed roof that would let through as much like as a grotty old polycarbonate roof and be warmer too,

Hi Mark,

I hope you don't mind if I offer some advice please. Call it tough love

I have 42 years experience in construction. I am fortunate enough to be able to scale my skills across a very broad range of structures and costs. A conservatory is a win for the salesman. S/he has sold the buyer something they think they want at what they are lead to believe is a fraction of the price of the real thing. The reality is many people are now tearing down their "cheap" conservatories (which they can only use for 6 weeks per year) and starting again with something more suitable.

Tough Love - Comments

1. Do not commence building until you have firmed up everything. Change during construction is expensive.
2. Your room size at 4 x 3m looks difficult to use. A 3m wide room can very quickly become a corridor. If you have to space increase it to 4m. Make the room size suitable for what you propose to use it for. You won't save any money making a room smaller than it needs to be.
3. You didn't provide me with a reason you don't like flat roofs. Probably because you've been looking at flat roofs that have been designed by the wrong people, constructed down to a limited budget and consequently they look shyte. Flat roofs are easy to build, do not impact neighbours or existing windows on your home and can be insulated to an exceptional standard. Google flat roofs with parapets to give you some quick insights. You can also drop roof lights into the roof which will enhance the ambience internally.
4. Plan where your furniture will fit before you commence building.
5. Make sure your designer has some knowledge of building costs
6. Don't do anything fancy - keep it simple. Curb your enthusiasm and stick to the essentials.

AiY(D)

[Matello7777]

Hi Mark,

I hope you don't mind if I offer some advice please. Call it tough love

I have 42 years experience in construction. I am fortunate enough to be able to scale my skills across a very broad range of structures and costs. A conservatory is a win for the salesman. S/he has sold the buyer something they think they want at what they are lead to believe is a fraction of the price of the real thing. The reality is many people are now tearing down their "cheap" conservatories (which they can only use for 6 weeks per year) and starting again with something more suitable.

Tough Love - Comments

1. Do not commence building until you have firmed up everything. Change during construction is expensive.
2. Your room size at 4 x 3m looks difficult to use. A 3m wide room can very quickly become a corridor. If you have to space increase it to 4m. Make the room size suitable for what you propose to use it for. You won't save any money making a room smaller than it needs to be.
3. You didn't provide me with a reason you don't like flat roofs. Probably because you've been looking at flat roofs that have been designed by the wrong people, constructed down to a limited budget and consequently they look shyte. Flat roofs are easy to build, do not impact neighbours or existing windows on your home and can be insulated to an exceptional standard. Google flat roofs with parapets to give you some quick insights. You can also drop into the roof which will enhance the ambience internally.
4. Plan where your furniture will fit before you commence building.
5. Make sure your designer has some knowledge of building costs
6. Don't do anything fancy - keep it simple. Curb your enthusiasm and stick to the essentials.

AiY(D)

Always happy to take advice.
Re 4 x 3 I did originally think 4 x 4 but thought it might cut costs plus 4x4 would make a pathway narrower and difficult to get things through but still doable.
The reason I don't like flat roofs is because we inherited a flat roof in the first house we bought. It had damp because of the poor build and we spent a lot of money correcting it and replacing the roof.

Thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it.