The Lemon Fool

Hi,

My bathroom light is no longer working. Before calling in an electrician I thought i'd look for a whole new light fitting. Is it normal these days that bathroom light fittings have irreplaceable bulbs? So it creates more waste and means I need to phone an electrician every few years to replace the entire fitting rather than being easily able to change a bulb? Ridiculous

Thanks
Andy

Andy46 wrote:Hi,

My bathroom light is no longer working. Before calling in an electrician I thought i'd look for a whole new light fitting. Is it normal these days that bathroom light fittings have irreplaceable bulbs? So it creates more waste and means I need to phone an electrician every few years to replace the entire fitting rather than being easily able to change a bulb? Ridiculous

Thanks
Andy

My bathroom lights have normal bulbs in that I can replace a faulty bulb, even although they are LED. OTOH, my under cabinet fittings in my kitchen are individual units and if the light goes I need to buy a new unit, but I can do that myself and replacing the unit is simply unplug and replace. It is the equivalent of changing a light bulb. I do not visualise using an electrician even in my dotage. So it very much depends what sort of fitting you have in your bathroom.

Dod

Indeed it seems to be getting increasingly difficult to find modern light fittings with real replaceable bulbs rather than integrated light units. Progress? I don't think so really.

You don't say what type of fitment you have.

If it is an LED type fitment I thought the bulb had failed in my main bathroom, but it was identified as transformer fault when new bulbs wouldn't work. Easy fix. No chance. Couldn't get a replacement anywhere.

Got an electrician to change all the lights. The fitments look the same but have evolved. Units supposedly good for 25000 hours. Should see us out.

Crazbe7

BullDog wrote:Indeed it seems to be getting increasingly difficult to find modern light fittings with real replaceable bulbs rather than integrated light units. Progress? I don't think so really.

I have never bought a modern light fitting.
All the fittings in our cottage and in our previous house came from the Antiques section of eBay.
You do not have to be a victim of non-progress.

I do however admit to putting up LED strips in the garage.

V8

Crazbe7 wrote:You don't say what type of fitment you have.

If it is an LED type fitment I thought the bulb had failed in my main bathroom, but it was identified as transformer fault when new bulbs wouldn't work. Easy fix. No chance. Couldn't get a replacement anywhere.

Got an electrician to change all the lights. The fitments look the same but have evolved. Units supposedly good for 25000 hours. Should see us out.

Crazbe7

I have done that in my kitchen and bathrooms. I would suggest that you keep a note somewhere of the lumens or wattage as well as the K number. At least one bulb will go well before 25,000 hours and that will enable you to replace it with the same. There is a huge range of bulbs.

Dod

Andy46 wrote:So it creates more waste and means I need to phone an electrician every few years to replace the entire fitting rather than being easily able to change a bulb? Ridiculous

Any competent person can change a light fitting, either your good self or a friend. Other than that there is no actual requirement in this regard for like-for-like replacements.

Chris

csearle wrote:

Andy46 wrote:So it creates more waste and means I need to phone an electrician every few years to replace the entire fitting rather than being easily able to change a bulb? Ridiculous

Any competent person can change a light fitting, either your good self or a friend. Other than that there is no actual requirement in this regard for like-for-like replacements.

Chris

Competent is the correct word and most people aren't when working with electricity.

Crazbe7

Crazbe7 wrote:Competent is the correct word and most people aren't when working with electricity.

Just as well as I'd have to seek out a different job! C.

csearle wrote:

Crazbe7 wrote:Competent is the correct word and most people aren't when working with electricity.

Just as well as I'd have to seek out a different job! C.

I need one of you guys to wire up behind my walls so I can put up wall lights! I could do the job myself but I wouldn't be properly, um, competent. And I suspect the lack of certification might bugger up things like my insurance and the house's saleability.

On the other hand, there are electrical jobs for which I am perfectly competent. Including simple things like changing a plug that seem to have been taken out of the hands of consumers in recent years, as the presumption of Universal Incompetence grows.

UncleEbenezer wrote:I need one of you guys to wire up behind my walls so I can put up wall lights! I could do the job myself but I wouldn't be properly, um, competent. And I suspect the lack of certification might bugger up things like my insurance and the house's saleability.

I’d expect you’re perfectly competent really. You might have to look hard to find an electrician who sticks firmly to the regs when retrofitting wall lighting. And does that work really require certification in England? I’m surprised.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

csearle wrote:

Crazbe7 wrote:Competent is the correct word and most people aren't when working with electricity.

Just as well as I'd have to seek out a different job! C.

I need one of you guys to wire up behind my walls so I can put up wall lights! I could do the job myself but I wouldn't be properly, um, competent. And I suspect the lack of certification might bugger up things like my insurance and the house's saleability.

On the other hand, there are electrical jobs for which I am perfectly competent. Including simple things like changing a plug that seem to have been taken out of the hands of consumers in recent years, as the presumption of Universal Incompetence grows.

I'd be no good for you. I'm probably perfectly competent but untrained. I use a local electrician.

35+ years of working in the construction industry across the world has taught me to always use competent, suitably trained and qualified individuals. Must be all the those Health & Safety briefings and Director's Safety Tours.

If you need a new power station, motorway or railway I'm sure I could get a team together for you though. Mr Sunak would be happy as we've all retired.

Crazbe7

quelquod wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:I need one of you guys to wire up behind my walls so I can put up wall lights! I could do the job myself but I wouldn't be properly, um, competent. And I suspect the lack of certification might bugger up things like my insurance and the house's saleability.

I’d expect you’re perfectly competent really. You might have to look hard to find an electrician who sticks firmly to the regs when retrofitting wall lighting. And does that work really require certification in England? I’m surprised.

Yes happily anyone can do almost any electrical work in England.

To start with any like-for-like replacement of anything electrical anywhere, including parts of the fixed electrical installation, is simply allowed to be done by a competent person without certification or notification.

Additions and alterations can be done* by competent persons outside of special locations. These special locations are outdoors, and within zones of wet-rooms (saunas, showers, bathrooms, and swimming pools). Either a Minor Works or an Electrical Installation Certificate must be issued though. This can also be done by that competent person but test equipment is required to ascertain certain measurements (so an electrician would be useful here if only for the testing).

Within special locations, in addition to the certification, the local authority must be notified. This now can be done by a Part-P registered electrician if he/she has had a chance to see the work and is satisfied that it is done correctly, especially parts that have become hidden from view. I think there is still an expensive way of doing this with the local authority directly but that may have been phased out as they couldn't cope back when it was the only way.

Chris

* To the latest version of BS7671

PS According to Part 2 of BS7671 (Wiring Regulations) a Competent Person is:
A person who possesses sufficient knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

PPS Changing out a fuseboard/consumer-unit also requires notification to the local authority.

csearle wrote:

quelquod wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:I need one of you guys to wire up behind my walls so I can put up wall lights! I could do the job myself but I wouldn't be properly, um, competent. And I suspect the lack of certification might bugger up things like my insurance and the house's saleability.

I’d expect you’re perfectly competent really. You might have to look hard to find an electrician who sticks firmly to the regs when retrofitting wall lighting. And does that work really require certification in England? I’m surprised.

Yes happily anyone can do almost any electrical work in England.

To start with any like-for-like replacement of anything electrical anywhere, including parts of the fixed electrical installation, is simply allowed to be done by a competent person without certification or notification.

Additions and alterations can be done* by competent persons outside of special locations. These special locations are outdoors, and within zones of wet-rooms (saunas, showers, bathrooms, and swimming pools). Either a Minor Works or an Electrical Installation Certificate must be issued though. This can also be done by that competent person but test equipment is required to ascertain certain measurements (so an electrician would be useful here if only for the testing).

Within special locations, in addition to the certification, the local authority must be notified. This now can be done by a Part-P registered electrician if he/she has had a chance to see the work and is satisfied that it is done correctly, especially parts that have become hidden from view. I think there is still an expensive way of doing this with the local authority directly but that may have been phased out as they couldn't cope back when it was the only way.

Chris

* To the latest version of BS7671

PS According to Part 2 of BS7671 (Wiring Regulations) a Competent Person is:
A person who possesses sufficient knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

PPS Changing out a fuseboard/consumer-unit also requires notification to the local authority.

or just read this

https://www.electricalcompetentperson.c ... -Explained

Crazbe7

Crazbe7 wrote:or just read this

Oi, you'll render me redundant here with talk like that! C.

BullDog wrote:Indeed it seems to be getting increasingly difficult to find modern light fittings with real replaceable bulbs rather than integrated light units. Progress? I don't think so really.

Yes it's progress and about time.

In my experience the mean time to failure for lamp sockets in shorter than the mean time to failure for LEDs and LED drivers. I have a lamp that is on its fourth socket with the same bulb. I've looked for higher quality sockets but there aren't any.

The lamp socket with a separate bulb was used because of the short life of incandescent bulbs. LEDs change this, when the parameters change the design decisions should change. People get stuck on contingent design details as if they were laws of nature.

9873210 wrote:

BullDog wrote:Indeed it seems to be getting increasingly difficult to find modern light fittings with real replaceable bulbs rather than integrated light units. Progress? I don't think so really.

Yes it's progress and about time.

In my experience the mean time to failure for lamp sockets in shorter than the mean time to failure for LEDs and LED drivers. I have a lamp that is on its fourth socket with the same bulb. I've looked for higher quality sockets but there aren't any.

The lamp socket with a separate bulb was used because of the short life of incandescent bulbs. LEDs change this, when the parameters change the design decisions should change. People get stuck on contingent design details as if they were laws of nature.

I honestly don't understand how this can be progress? A light fitting with changeable bulbs can last a lifetime, you can buy different bulbs in terms of brightness to suit your brightness needs and probably never have to use an electrician. What advantageous are there of fittings with non changeable bulbs?

Hi

Next question. I have another light fitting i want replacing in my bedroom. Is it easy for an electrician to replace the current light fitting for simply a wire with a bulb at the end of it which i can stick a light shade over should i wish?

Thanks

Andy46 wrote:Hi

Next question. I have another light fitting i want replacing in my bedroom. Is it easy for an electrician to replace the current light fitting for simply a wire with a bulb at the end of it which i can stick a light shade over should i wish?

Thanks

It's the usual "easy task to do safely if you know what you are doing" task.

The question you need to ask when shopping around: "How much to replace a light fitting with a ceiling rose plus pendant?"

Andy46 wrote:Next question. I have another light fitting i want replacing in my bedroom. Is it easy for an electrician to replace the current light fitting for simply a wire with a bulb at the end of it which i can stick a light shade over should i wish?

Probably.
Might leave a hole in the ceiling, depending on the present fitting, and a dirt shadow where the old fitting was.
And if the attic is boarded, getting above the fitting might be a pain.
Other than that, usually a simple job.

Take a peep when the job is finished to ensure that the electrician has put the loft insulation back properly.

V8