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He went and did it

A friendly ear
PinkDalek
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Re: Tracing Agents for Australia

#55834

Postby PinkDalek » May 24th, 2017, 8:41 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:... A 'former friend ' of mine has got £4,000 of my cash and is making no efforts to pay it back - unfortunately he's in Australia so I can't find him and extract the cash/give him a good kicking


Using CK's search term you can find plenty of hits. This is the first one (no personal knowledge):

http://traceanyone.co.uk/australia/

How hard have you tried to locate him generally? There are a fair few genealogists on LMF who might be able to give some search tips (possibly you can name him by PM if you find someone interested). They appear mainly to discuss such matters at "History":

search.php?keywords=genealogy

Lootman
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Re: He went and did it

#55836

Postby Lootman » May 24th, 2017, 9:11 pm

PingPong wrote:[no he has completely disappeared off everything. And nobody is aware that he had any friends. Nor do we know where he works. The Police are after him but they appear to have put it on the back burner for lack of progress. I do not know what powers they have to find someone. You think that going via the DVLC they could find out what car he is driving. Or go to the bank where he has/had an account and find out who is paying his wages.

It seems simple to me but then I know nothing of what they are permitted to do and stealing £6500 is hardly crime of the century.

It's not that hard to go off the grid if you really want to. The easiest way is to go overseas, flip through a couple of airports, and then buy a cash ticket to a location that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the UK and which doesn't recognise UK court judgements.

And as I mentioned in another context the other day, there are nations where for US $10,000 you can legally assume a new identity.

There are also people who can make you "disappear", for a price of course. Witness protection programmes also do it.

But for £6,500? Heck no. I'd need 100 times that to take that kind of risk. This chap is an amateur, and he will be caught. Whether he will have any money on him at the time is another matter. But how sad and sick is it that someone would deprive a child in this way? That is his real punishment.

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Tracing Agents for Australia

#55838

Postby AleisterCrowley » May 24th, 2017, 9:27 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:... A 'former friend ' of mine has got £4,000 of my cash and is making no efforts to pay it back - unfortunately he's in Australia so I can't find him and extract the cash/give him a good kicking


Using CK's search term you can find plenty of hits. This is the first one (no personal knowledge):

http://traceanyone.co.uk/australia/

How hard have you tried to locate him generally? There are a fair few genealogists on LMF who might be able to give some search tips (possibly you can name him by PM if you find someone interested). They appear mainly to discuss such matters at "History":

search.php?keywords=genealogy

I know roughly where he is - he's still a Facebook Friend(!)- but if I knew exactly ,what could I do? I can hardly set the lawyers on him.
Him and money never have a long term relationship, he's always broke. The twit.

Lootman
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Re: He went and did it

#55840

Postby Lootman » May 24th, 2017, 9:35 pm

Clitheroekid wrote: It may also be that he has a pension fund. If so, and he is able to draw from it, a court order can be obtained that would effectively force him to do so in order to pay the debt. This is a very little known / used method of enforcement, and it's always a pleasure to educate people who have concealed their other assets and think they are exempt from enforcement!

Hmm, I didn't know that pension payouts can be attached in that way. I had always assumed that they were exempt.

But isn't there some kind of restriction on how much of someone's pension can be seized by a creditor if the result would be that that retiree would be left deprived of the ability to pay for basic needs? If so, a clever debtor might simply structure their affairs so that, at the last possible date for starting to take pension distributions, the creditor had no other assets or income in his name.

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#55945

Postby PingPong » May 25th, 2017, 11:08 am

AleisterCrowley wrote:Having no children (and no will currently) I wouldn't know - but I always assumed the money would be held by a trusted third party in such cases.
Hope you catch up with him. A 'former friend ' of mine has got £4,000 of my cash and is making no efforts to pay it back - unfortunately he's in Australia so I can't find him and extract the cash/give him a good kicking


The trusted third party being your child.

Hands up anyone who wouldn't trust their children to look after money for your grandchildren you had left in the will. I would expect it's a short list.
Anyway. I have had a phonecall while I was at the Doctors this morning and they say they have found him. Just waiting for the call back.

Hey CK. You're a star!

Ping Pong

superFoolish
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Re: He went and did it

#56520

Postby superFoolish » May 29th, 2017, 3:52 am

This is not an unusual occurrence in families. My son's biological father took about £2K out of son's trust account (it was birthday money & gifts from birth to age 15. Technically, the grandmother (biological father's side) stole the money, but she gave it to the father. It was a simple building society account held in trust with her as trustee, which is a common way of doing things (at least, it used to be).

Solicitor advised:

a) legal costs would wipe out any recovery of £s (which was unlikely).
b) We were moving abroad and the case couldn't be held in our absence (at least, we wouldn't succeed in our absence).

That was 7 years ago. Forgotten about now (to the extent that I am not sure about the £s involved), and the biological father and grandmother are 'paying' far more than the money that they stole. Son is now 21, a marvellous, respectful and respected young man, with a very healthy sum in his savings (a good 5 figures), all earned by himself, working part time, and paying his own university fees (living FOC at home with us, and receiving contributions from us, for books, etc). He's already made more of his life than his biological father has, and has no psychological issues.

Some people are just scum; they might think they are getting away with it, but their loss is far greater than the value of money.

Experience shows that, in the vast majority of these cases, the money is forgotten about fairly quickly, but the perpetrator suffers indefinitely.

The same man held my (now) wife to ransom over the sale of their flat when they divorced; she ended up giving him a share far over the odds to get rid of the problem (a five figure sum). Guess what? He's spent it all, and has nothing to his name. Presumably, he's waiting for his mother to die, so he can inherit her house, but he's got a surprise coming there, because his sister has been bailed out (financially), so many times, that there's nothing left.

I haven't written the above with any glee; I'd much rather events had been less unpleasant. My point is that this type of person rarely get's away with anything, as such; they typically lead miserable lives.

Unless huge sums are involved, or there is a very good chance of recovering life-changing amounts of money (which may be appear small to us; it's all relative), it's best to move on, and forget about it. The time and stress aren't worth it; see the person for what they are, and let them wallow in their own misery.

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#59102

Postby PingPong » June 10th, 2017, 9:52 am

Well since the police were told of brothers address on the 25th nothing has been done.
Next stop complaint to the Police Commissioner.

Makes you sad really.

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Re: He went and did it

#60177

Postby Sunnypad » June 14th, 2017, 7:57 pm

oh Simon!

I well remember this asshat and the misery he has caused.

I really hope there's a way to recover that money. Your poor niece. And poor you, I feel for you.

Ach, one can only hope for natural justice of some sort.

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#60276

Postby PingPong » June 15th, 2017, 12:43 pm

Sunnypad wrote:oh Simon!

I well remember this asshat and the misery he has caused.

I really hope there's a way to recover that money. Your poor niece. And poor you, I feel for you.

Ach, one can only hope for natural justice of some sort.


Well there is natural justice - he has no-one and is living in a crappy £100 a week bedsit.

Spoke to the Police yesterday. As the evidence is at the bank and will not disappear then this case is on the back burner whilst other cases whose evidence (like finger prints) will disappear. I asked them to update my Niece more often as she is not in a good place right now. She thinks nobody cares.

I would pay an awful lot of money to see the look on his face when they do go a-knocking because with each passing day he must feel more and more secure and that he has got away with it again.

Thanks Sunny

Ping Pong <and don't ask me how I got that nickname> :lol:

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#65098

Postby PingPong » July 6th, 2017, 10:53 am

The Police visited on tuesday.
I was by the Officer told he crumbled and was an emotional wreck and kept going on about how crap his life was. When he was told of the devastation he had done to his daughter he became totally un-interviewable.

Formal interview is today.

I guess he is realising just what he has done with his life.

I'm reminded of the old saying about the jar with rocks, pebbles and sand. Don't know if you know it so I will relate it you here. Don't fill your jar with sand first like my brother because then there is no room for the important stuff.

A professor of philosophy stood before his class with some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks about two inches in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full.

They agreed that it was full.

So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly and watched as the pebbles rolled into the open areas between the rocks. The professor then asked the students again if the jar was full.

They chuckled and agreed that it was indeed full this time.

The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. The sand filled the remaining open areas of the jar. “Now,” said the professor, “I want you to recognize that this jar signifies your life. The rocks are the truly important things, such as family, health and relationships. If all else was lost and only the rocks remained, your life would still be meaningful. The pebbles are the other things that matter in your life, such as work or school. The sand signifies the remaining “small stuff” and material possessions.

didds
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Re: He went and did it

#65111

Postby didds » July 6th, 2017, 12:13 pm

and the final section is the professor asked the class if after the sand the jar was full.

the students agreed it was.

the prof took a can of beer, opened it, and poured it into the jar where it soaked into the sand.

The professor explained then that there is always room for a beer...

allegedly

didds

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#67745

Postby PingPong » July 16th, 2017, 8:35 pm

Just heard today the Police are not going to prosecute. Not in the public interest.

My Niece cannot understand it. Steal a few thousand quid and walk away scott free.

Pathetic.

didds
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Re: He went and did it

#67855

Postby didds » July 17th, 2017, 11:25 am

So anybody stealing off a family member is "not in the public interest".

Unbelievable.

I refuse to believe whoever made that decision would believe it if they themselves were robbed.

didds

stevensfo
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Re: He went and did it

#67858

Postby stevensfo » July 17th, 2017, 11:36 am

Not in the public interest.


I'd love to know what that actually means, and who decides. Maybe 'Not likely to get in the tabloids'? :-(

Two thousand quid? Nah, that's nothing. Try nicking a Curly Wurly! A boy got caught stealing one from our village shop many years ago, at the school bus stop. The poor old shopkeeper was going crazy with all the kids nicking things. Humiliated, cautioned by the police, apparently thrashed to within an inch of his life by his Dad and possibly by the Headmaster as well, since he'd been in school uniform.

The guy's now a very respected Head of a Primary school and soon to retire.

If only he'd aimed higher and gone for two thousand quid! :-)

Steve

AleisterCrowley
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Re: He went and did it

#67861

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 17th, 2017, 11:47 am

I don't know how these things are decided, but suspect they (CPS?) have concluded that there is little realistic chance of recovering the money.

redsturgeon
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Re: He went and did it

#67871

Postby redsturgeon » July 17th, 2017, 12:09 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:I don't know how these things are decided, but suspect they (CPS?) have concluded that there is little realistic chance of recovering the money.


Indeed.

Frustrating as it may seem, if you weigh up the cost of the trial, the likely penalty, the chances of repeat offending etc it becomes clear that nobody really gains from prosecuting this crime.

John

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Re: He went and did it

#67874

Postby vrdiver » July 17th, 2017, 12:22 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:I don't know how these things are decided, but suspect they (CPS?) have concluded that there is little realistic chance of recovering the money.


Indeed.

Frustrating as it may seem, if you weigh up the cost of the trial, the likely penalty, the chances of repeat offending etc it becomes clear that nobody really gains from prosecuting this crime.

John


Except perhaps as an example to others? I thought the law was a code that we as citizens had agreed to adhere to, not some sort of corporate profit & loss account? The police seem to have moved ever more closely towards a stratification of crime, whereby "lesser" crimes are left unsolved and/or unprosecuted. This low-level background of acceptable crime makes, IMHO, a culture whereby potential criminals have no deterrent to make them reconsider and ultimately leads to higher levels of all crime as criminals pursue and progress their careers.

The end result is that the police have more crime to deal with than if they nipped it in the bud to begin with.

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Re: He went and did it

#67890

Postby redsturgeon » July 17th, 2017, 1:38 pm

vrdiver wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:I don't know how these things are decided, but suspect they (CPS?) have concluded that there is little realistic chance of recovering the money.


Indeed.

Frustrating as it may seem, if you weigh up the cost of the trial, the likely penalty, the chances of repeat offending etc it becomes clear that nobody really gains from prosecuting this crime.

John


Except perhaps as an example to others? I thought the law was a code that we as citizens had agreed to adhere to, not some sort of corporate profit & loss account? The police seem to have moved ever more closely towards a stratification of crime, whereby "lesser" crimes are left unsolved and/or unprosecuted. This low-level background of acceptable crime makes, IMHO, a culture whereby potential criminals have no deterrent to make them reconsider and ultimately leads to higher levels of all crime as criminals pursue and progress their careers.

The end result is that the police have more crime to deal with than if they nipped it in the bud to begin with.


I don't disagree with your general point at all. However in this specific case I can understand the decision...while also empathising with the victims.

John

PingPong
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Re: He went and did it

#67982

Postby PingPong » July 17th, 2017, 8:02 pm

Thankyou all for your replies. I won't do individual quotes as I'm not very good at this forum.

Suffice to say the POlice aren't interested in getting involved in family matters. And they aren't interested in spending a lot of money to make someone pick up litter. Or, like the last time he was prosecuted for fraud, work in a charity shop every saturday for 3 months.

I am as surprised and confused about this as you are.

The Police just said he's got a job so take him to court. But as I know from the trace I did on him he has no assets, no money, low paid work and is servicing 2 loans. I think the odds of getting this money paid back in his lifetime are very slim. There really isn't much point in starting a civil case.

My Niece of course is devastated. She can't come to terms with what her father has done and now has to cope with the harsh real world which has turned round and said "Tough luck we don't care". You and I may well of guessed the outcome but it's not so easy for someone just turned 18.

His punishment will be a £90 a week bedsit and no family and a paupers grave.

Thankyou for listening. It helps me to write stuff down. I just hope the whole thing now is over, close the book and move on.

midnightcatprowl
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Re: He went and did it

#68004

Postby midnightcatprowl » July 17th, 2017, 9:58 pm

My Niece of course is devastated. She can't come to terms with what her father has done and now has to cope with the harsh real world which has turned round and said "Tough luck we don't care". You and I may well of guessed the outcome but it's not so easy for someone just turned 18.


I feel very sorry for your niece, it's very hard at that age but also maybe equally hard at any age to come to terms with this sort of thing. All I'd say is that she is does have your support/concern/understanding and at least has someone she can trust.


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