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Dad has cancer and ...various rants

A friendly ear
Sunnypad
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Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71159

Postby Sunnypad » August 1st, 2017, 9:46 am

oh members of anonymous forum
may I have all the hugs?

Sorry if this is selfish, but I most from my perspective rather than Dad's!

Dad found out a couple of weeks ago that he has cancer. It is thought to be quite advanced though that's not confirmed yet.

He is feeling okay - he has other health issues so there's the pills and the side effects that go along with that, but the short version is if I rang up and said "do you want to go for pizza this evening" he'd say "sure" so in the normal way of life, he's fine. His worst worry was my mum after all the issues we've had with her, but anyway......

as some of you will know, I have a sister who is not in touch with my parents and a great bunch of friends. But dad is adamant that he wants this news kept in the "family" for now. None of his friends know.

In the ordinary way, I suffer with anxiety and rampant insomnia and currently my stress level is really high, so not being allowed to tell even my best mate is really bothering me. I'm seeing two close friends this week - the sort who in the end, will be ferrying me to and from hospitals and hospices etc and I'm not allowed to tell them.

and my mum, who is unwell already, looks like she's about to collapse in a heap. I'm so worried about it all and....I'm not allowed to tell anyone. Gah.

Is it awful if I ask dad to reconsider this? I bet if I was married he wouldn't mind me telling my husband.

thanks for listening, anonymous ones!

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71166

Postby kiloran » August 1st, 2017, 10:04 am

It's tough, having to keep it all bottled up inside you. Having someone to talk to about it does relieve a lot of stress.

Do you have a close and absolutely trustworthy friend you could confide in, preferable not closely linked to your family? If so, there are two options:
  1. Ask your dad if he would mind if you discussed it with your friend. Explain that it would really give you support in these tough times
  2. Talk to your friend anyway!
Otherwise, there are more "professional" support groups such as https://carers.org/section/help-advice who can offer a lot of help, advice and someone to talk to.

--kiloran (been there, done that!)
p.s. I deal with a lot of people with cancer, and it is just amazing what modern medicine can do to help them. It's great to see their faces when they are told they have many years ahead of them.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71171

Postby vrdiver » August 1st, 2017, 10:27 am

Firstly, big (virtual) hug. My wife had cancer and the worry and stress that you feel, whilst not being able to "fix it" are horrible.

Talking, or just having a normal day with a friend who knows and understands why you might not be as cheerful as normal is really important. But so's your dad's wishes. If you tell somebody and it gets out, he will be hurt, very hurt. He may want to keep things "normal" for now, maybe in a sort of self denial, maybe because he thinks that's the best for everyone. Do talk to him, tell him you need a friend's support, so "is it OK to talk with XXX" would be a good way forward.

If that upsets him, or meets with a refusal or "not yet", pop in to your MacMillan centre. If he hasn't already seen this (or you, or your mum) do take a look: http://www.macmillan.org.uk/information ... lking.html

In the meantime, "normal" is important. Spend time together and focus on having a normal time, not a "oh god this is terrible" time. Seriously, cancer is scary, but the whole family will have a much higher quality of time when it's not allowed to dominate.

The shock you've been handed is huge. Don't underestimate it. Come back for more hugs, talk to us anonymous folk and we'll be here for you.

VRD

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71192

Postby Sunnypad » August 1st, 2017, 11:10 am

thanks
I am so anxious I feel sick all the time
I would really like to tell my best friend and my boss - my boss because of the potential to need time off - but I asked him on Sunday and he said no.

How long before it's okay to ask again?!

I might just tell my best mate there's an issue going on, he will probably put 2 and 2 together. It's crazy not to tell him because he's my family but also he will see the anxiety in my body language.

I've been bugging my parents to tell me what was wrong for 2 weeks because it was so obvious something was wrong.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71195

Postby kiloran » August 1st, 2017, 11:18 am

Sunnypad wrote:I would really like to tell my best friend and my boss - my boss because of the potential to need time off - but I asked him on Sunday and he said no.

I would certainly tell your boss (unless he/she has very close links to your dad). It would be bad if your boss noticed a fall-off in timekeeping or performance without understanding the reasons. I would hope most bosses would be very supportive if they knew that your family had serious health issues that needed your support.

--kiloran

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71236

Postby didds » August 1st, 2017, 12:52 pm

Just picking up on what Kiloran said, TBH I don;t think your dad "has the right" to tell/ask/require you not to tell your boss.

If your boss is a relative etc they wear two hats here.

didds

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71247

Postby Sunnypad » August 1st, 2017, 1:54 pm

thanks for the replies

Part of the issue here is I am the Keeper of All the Secrets...

I don't just mean for blackmail :lol:

I mean everyone knows they can tell me whatever they need to and it won't go any further. So telling my best mate and saying "you're not supposed to know" doesn't do a lot to ensure trust, does it? As well as the compromise on my own standards. I stewed all day yesterday about even putting this on the board.

If he needs me to help out with medical stuff, then he will say okay, tell your boss, and if at that point he's not all right with me telling my best mate.....that would be bonkers.

But I think that waiting till he needs me for something, so that I'm asking boss, for example, on a Tuesday, to have the day off on a Thursday, wouldn't be right.

This cancer is quite advanced as far as we know, we are waiting for confirmation of a stage. So any appointments will come up quickly.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71321

Postby didds » August 1st, 2017, 5:47 pm

Sunnypad wrote:But I think that waiting till he needs me for something, so that I'm asking boss, for example, on a Tuesday, to have the day off on a Thursday, wouldn't be right.
.



And there is the distinct possibility (which I think you were alluding to) that in many businesses you just couldn't get that leave at such a short notice. So at that juncture you'd have to play the family-in-grave-condition card... and at some stage your boss would reasonably ask how long you'd known about it, and why hadn't you warned him so he could at least have contingency plans in place for when you did need the leave at very short notice.

I really do appreciate that your dad has very good reasons of his own to ask you not to disclose his condition; he should be able to want some privacy etc. But its not really feasible for him to not to divulge the information, in confidence, to somebody else who is reliant on you. And as I said before, if there is crossover between work and family, your boss has two hats to wear then, and should respect the limitations of them (which i hasten to add I am sure they would).

Despite the slightly blunt views above I hope you do find a solution SP.

Best wishes

didds

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71383

Postby Clitheroekid » August 1st, 2017, 9:44 pm

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. It's one I can well understand, as when my dad discovered he had terminal cancer I was the first person he told, and he asked me not to tell my mum or my sister as he wanted to do this himself at what he considered to be the right time.

Fortunately, the right time turned out to be very quickly, but it was awful being the repository of that information and knowing that my mum and sister were in blissful ignorance.

I also found that it was the announcement that he had terminal cancer which was the most shocking and painful part of the whole situation. It really did feel like a bereavement, and I think I did most of my grieving then, so that when my dad actually died the grief wasn't as hard to bear as it would have been normally. I hope you'll find the same.

I don't think there’s any right or wrong in a situation like this, and we all have to deal with it in whatever way seems right to us at the time. However, such platitudes are pretty useless as advice goes, so I think you should take a pragmatic attitude.

The starting point is that you should abide by your dad's wishes. However, this has to be balanced against other factors, and it's possible that those other factors might outweigh that duty of confidentiality.

Of course there's no simple answer to the question of how to weigh those factors, but another practical point to consider is the harm, if any, that breaking the confidence would do to your dad.

My own view is that you should tell your employer. Firstly, it will have the positive effect of making it easier to get time off to look after your dad, which is a clear benefit to him. It will also make you feel a bit better for knowing you've done something to help. Don't forget that your wellbeing is important not just to you but also to your dad, who will inevitably be worried about you.

Secondly, on the `harm' question it's extremely unlikely to cause your dad any harm simply because he won't find out. I assume that he and your employer don't know each other, and if you impress upon your employer that you're breaking confidence and feel bad about doing so I'm sure they will very much respect both the fact that you've acted responsibly as an employee and the need for absolute confidentiality.

The situation with your friend is slightly more of a grey area. No matter how much you impress the need for confidentiality on them it's almost inevitable that they will also feel the need to tell someone else "in strictest confidence". That person will do the same, and before you know it your confidential secret is general knowledge, and could well feed back to him.

I therefore think that - at least for the time being - the good advice to speak to a professional should be followed. Again, using the same principles outlined earlier it will benefit you (and indirectly your dad) and it won't harm your dad. Speaking to a professional will mean you can be quite sure that it won't go any further, and hopefully just sharing the burden, even with someone you don't know, will make you feel a lot better.

Even if it doesn't fulfil your need to talk to someone then at least you will have done your best to keep your dad's confidence, and I suppose that would be the time to ask him again.

Bear in mind that your dad will also still be trying to come to terms with it, but that he will do so, at least to some extent, at which point he's likely to feel less concerned about people finding out.

Finally, although it's a cliché time really is a great healer. When it happened to me I was absolutely distraught, as my dad and I had always had a very close relationship and I loved him very much. It felt at the time as though I'd never get over it, but I did, and that pain and grief that you think will never leave you does eventually fade away.

Although even now, years later, I can easily be moved to tears if I consciously think about it my main thoughts are gratitude for having had such a brilliant dad.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71392

Postby Sunnypad » August 1st, 2017, 11:27 pm

Thanks again for support and thoughts

Re boss and the two friends I'd like to tell, there's no reason at all that dad would find out, though of course there's always a risk, but the circles aren't connected in any way. It's more that I don't betray confidences and he has a right to privacy of course.

Tonight I went for dinner with one of the friends I'd like to tell, but I realise that actually having a nice evening out without any horrible shadow over it isn't a bad thing because there's going to be a lot of unpleasantness later...

It's not clear at the moment what the next steps are or if there will be any, so I suppose I should wait for them and then see where he stands on the issue.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71468

Postby Sussexlad » August 2nd, 2017, 11:30 am

I accept it's a dreadful burden but looked at another way, it's also a tremendous privilege to be entrusted with such a personal secret. My sister's son is similarly unwell and has also been asked not to pass on the news because he doesn't want his children to know just yet. However she has shared it with me and I think that's OK because the burden is awful to bear alone and if there is someone in whom you have that ultimate trust I would go ahead. Lastly there are many tales of people missing the opportunity to tell a loved one, what they meant to them. Certainly I *very* much feel that way about my dad. If you haven't expressed any thoughts you have in that direction, now might be the time ? (((((((Sunnypad))))))

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71491

Postby Sunnypad » August 2nd, 2017, 1:28 pm

Sussex, it's known "in the family" so mum and sister know as well (the sister who is barely in touch with parents anyway, might as well have told a stranger in the street)

I said in my first post that I am really worried mum will collapse under the strain and that remains my main worry - I think it would be good for her if she could tell her friends too, but admittedly that's not her top worry at the moment.

I will be speaking to the folks later this evening so things might have changed by then in terms of how dad feels.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#71984

Postby Sunnypad » August 4th, 2017, 9:38 am

just to update

the admin on this seems to be a complete mess sadly

We were told all sorts of things about where his case had gone and and heard nothing. I decided to get on the case yesterday because it seemed to me that with the type he has, it could only be dealt with in one place, so we called them and they are having a case conference about him next week and they will be in touch after that.

I had thought that what was thought to be an advanced case would be dealt with quite quickly - well maybe it is, I don't know, but they didn't tell us or the GP how this was progressing. I wonder if that's normal? Perhaps it's sheer dumb luck - the heart problems he and mum had seemed to be dealt with very quickly.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#72945

Postby didds » August 8th, 2017, 11:07 am

In the little I know of this area, if your dad is within 6 months of death the funding changes and everything ramps up hugely to provide the best quality for end of life. As this hasn't yet happened it seems, this may be a "good thing" in that regard if you get my drift.

Best wishes to you all.

didds

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73008

Postby beeswax » August 8th, 2017, 2:59 pm

I'm sorry to hear this story and have just a couple of points that one is a question and one is a helper so to speak.

I know lots of people who have had cancer but only after they have died in some cases quite quickly and I personally cannot understand why they wanted to keep it a secret? Is it still the dreaded 'C' that dare not say its name? I also can understand why a husband would want to keep it a little while from his wife and vice versa in order not to distress them too much but if they need medical treatment that is almost impossible to do but why does anyone want to keep it from their children or their employers or anyone else when people would surely be very sympathetic? Everyone is different and they are entitled to do what they want to do but it is a question I have wondered about often?

My second point is rather perverse in a way but its based on my 2 years experience visiting my MIL in a care home and nursing home now and they are NOT places where you want to end up and far better if you could die before that happened and the CQC today have said that lots of care homes are failing to meet basic standards of care but I don't want to dwell on that too much. My Mother died aged 70 which was thirty years ago and my Dad about ten years later and so they didn't have to face that which in some ways is more reassuring that living to a ripe old age with severe dementia. Cancer can strike at any age of course and many young people get it which os difficult to bear for young children they may have. To say putting things into perspective isn't always helpful but its just my take on these things.

Hope things work out for you and your Mother especially..I hate to use the term, 'blessings in disguise' but they can be in some situations!

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73012

Postby Clariman » August 8th, 2017, 3:30 pm

beeswax wrote:My second point is rather perverse in a way but its based on my 2 years experience visiting my MIL in a care home and nursing home now and they are NOT places where you want to end up and far better if you could die before that happened and the CQC today have said that lots of care homes are failing to meet basic standards of care but I don't want to dwell on that too much.

While there are certainly some poor care homes out there, there are also some very good ones. My father spent his last few years in a fabulous home with great facilities, great staff and great care. It really was his home and he had end-of-life care there rather than being rushed into a hospital to die.

Returning to the original question. I think many people need to come to terms with illness themselves before they are ready to deal with it publicly, so your father may be going through that process. Sometimes it is hard to deal with the responses of others, but if you don't communicate the information then you also lose the opportunity for other people's support.

In your position, I would tell your employer for sure. I would try not to tell my friends but it depends on how much you trust them. As others have said, it is so easy for a series of people to tell another "in strictest confidence" - and it becomes more widespread.

Clariman

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73092

Postby YeeWo » August 8th, 2017, 8:37 pm

https://www.maggiescentres.org

We donate a small amount Monthly to Maggies. Best to contact them in this situation, this is what they're there for! Make sure you do plenty of exercise and manage your own stress levels. All the best, YW.

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73228

Postby Sunnypad » August 9th, 2017, 11:05 am

Hello all
Thanks for the replies.
To take them in order –

Didds – yes, we’ve heard nothing although we are aware that we will probably hear something next week (but that was only in response to me having to do quite a bit of enquiring). If this is how they treat patients approaching end of life, well, yikes. The initial information was put in quite an urgent way but doesn’t yet have a stage attached to it. As I read up on it I realise it’s because the cancer type is rare so that might account for the slowness as well.

Beeswax – I so see your point about old age and so does dad – one of my friend’s fathers had a few months of seriously grim chemo, came out the other side with dementia, had a terrible time with that……I’ll address the taboo thing a bit later.

Clariman – yes, I think he is processing it himself and that’s partly why he doesn’t even want me to tell my boss and given that we are still waiting for follow up perhaps he was right and there was no need to share the information yet.

YeeWo – thanks, I will look them up.

Overall – I am understanding dad not wanting to tell people a bit better now and I no longer feel the need to confide in anyone in real life yet.
Part of the problem dad has now, he has what I call “hangers on” – not sure how to explain it. A bit like the Dowager Countess saying “I have plenty of friends I don’t like”. So his social circle is a bit kind of like that, a lot of people relating to his career, general social climbing, some particularly horrible ones that he met when he first came to this country and they never made other friends so he didn’t break off with them – all people I avoid like the plague, though they live far enough away for that to be quite easy. I think they still give him a hard time for his daughters not being married – you know the sort. And interestingly I think he now realises what a waste of time they were, but anyway….

Reason that is relevant is that if the news gets out then he’s got a bunch of pretend friends who might find out.

Also, depending on what the docs say, it’s quite possible his preferred option will be to have no treatment at all, and that’s going to horrify people and quite possibly they’ll turn up on the doorstep offering their unwanted opinions.

Beeswax, this brings me back to the taboo thing. I don’t really know why cancer was such a taboo subject in the past? But currently, I think we have this awful “fighting cancer” narrative, we have a society that views 78 as not old age and all kinds of medical intervention so we can live for a very very very long time. So I wonder if, when you hear someone died of cancer and they never said, they simply couldn’t face hearing all that crap, perhaps didn’t take any treatment etc.

Also they might have just had a really horrible time in treatment and didn’t want to deal with anyone other than their absolute closest loved ones. So I think it’s not necessarily a taboo that made them want it private.

Also Dad is feeling perfectly fine and I can see the argument that while you feel fine, why have depressing conversations about it with people, why not just live normally.

This is where I’ve come to – I don’t know how long this is going to cast a shadow so actually it’s better for me to just be enjoying my time with my friends rather than talking about this.

sorry, that was very long!

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73259

Postby beeswax » August 9th, 2017, 12:02 pm

Sunnypad, thanks for the replies and understand more of where you are coming from and especially the come day go day so called friends..

I have a similar thing with my MIL who I mentioned is 99 with severe dementia in a nursing home and she has no family only her daughter and me but we thought the dozens of friends she made when she went to her church for 60 odd years would rally round when her husband died about ten years ago but no, not one of them came to her house to have a cup of tea with her or even phoned her up. Not even her own Pastor that she gave money too over many years and indeed the church itself for roof repairs etc. If that is christian loving ones' neighbour they can keep it and confirms my opinion over many years and many churches, that most of them are just a bunch of self serving hypocrites which brings me back to the point that I don't want any of them at my MIL's funeral, none and when that happens, IF I'm still going myself (I'm 73 now) then I won't tell them or even her nephews and nieces who also haven't visited and its not the right time to discuss this but I don't want her to have a funeral service in any church and neither do I and my plan for what its worth is for her and me and not sure about my wife is to go immediately to be cremated and ashes buried in the plot where my MIL husband is as we have bought and paid for it lol and have a headstone. Its not the money we are thinking of ie 5 grand for a cheap funeral. I would rather that go to the starving kids that need it...

So, I can understand your Dad's reservations why he is still mentally aware and so good on him...You have a duty to look after yourself too and enjoy life as best you can and it aint easy, I know that but thanks for sharing that all with us..

ATB, Mike

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Re: Dad has cancer and ...various rants

#73295

Postby Sunnypad » August 9th, 2017, 1:35 pm

has this funeral talk crossed over from another thread? I might be being a bit dense but I can't see it in beeswax' original remarks.

I'd pay to keep some of my parents' awful "friends" away but I presume that's not allowed :lol:

you remember those old cartoons that finished with "that's all folks!" on the screen at the end? I want that for my funeral but my sister says it's not allowed!

A thousand pounds for a hearse, I think I need a lie down....


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