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Trivial mistake on return

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Trivial mistake on return

#108367

Postby XFool » January 6th, 2018, 5:51 pm

Having filed my tax return online for 2016-17 I am faced with a dilemma.

I realise I have missed £1.08 in interest off the totals. Should I bother refiling? Bearing in mind:

1. I was overcharged a (very) small amount of tax in 2015-16 due to foolishly increasing the annual State Pension payments (as 13 x monthly amount) rather than accepting the HMRC prefilled (and presumably more accurate) figure.

2. I have since rediscovered a very tattered receipt from 2016 for admission to an exhibition in the Natural History Museum which bangs on about: "Thank you for your Gift Aid and donation received today." (Listed as £10) - complete with my (incorrect) name and (correct) address.

As it also charged 90p VAT on a £6 total, age discounted admission charge (17.65% VAT - Que?) I cannot possibly imagine where a £10 Gift Aid comes from (On a £15.xx standard admission price?). I remember they did say something about Gift Aid on the day. But it didn't seem important at the time.

A phone call to HMRC would likely cost more to sort this out than the tax...

What would you do? There's still time. ;)

I just like to get these things correct.

WRT the above tax return, in the end I gave up trying to understand it, just lay back and thought of England.

P.S. HMRC charged Higher Rate Tax

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Re: Interest & dividend taxation

#108377

Postby scrumpyjack » January 6th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Personally I would adhere to the maxim 'de minimis non curat lex' (The Law doesn't care about trivial mistakes).

It appears you have paid too much tax anyway, (the HRT relief on the charitable donation is more than the unpaid tax on the interest received I think)

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Re: Interest & dividend taxation

#108400

Postby XFool » January 6th, 2018, 7:17 pm

Thanks for reply.

What's bugging me is the figures on the receipt. How can £10 Gift Aid come from me paying £6 for entrance?

If I look at the bottom half of the receipt it says: Event £15.1x, Gift Aid £10

If I go with the top half it says: Adult 60+ £6, Gift Aid £0, Total £6, Amount Due £6, Payments cash £6

If I say £6 - 90p VAT = £5.10 then add £10 Gift Aid I can get a figure of £15.10...

But none of this seems to make much sense to me. e.g. VAT = 90p/£5.10 = 17.65%

And how can £10 Gift Aid come from me apparently paying £6 entrance fee?

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#109817

Postby XFool » January 12th, 2018, 11:41 am

Oh well.

Received my HMRC paper Self Assessment Statement 009 (whatever happened to the previous eight?) in the post today.

Lots of numbers, no idea what they mean! But all the 'Balance now owing...' and 'Balance on account...' entries say '0.00'. So I should wotsit.

Case of 'sleeping dogs'... ;)

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#109933

Postby Wuzwine » January 12th, 2018, 3:47 pm

Hi Xfool,

If you pay £6 the charity get £7.50. If you are a 40% payer this £7.50 is multiplied by 125% giving £10 when rounded up. This gives you the higher rate relief.

I wrote a letter when I missed out about £3 interest. However I worked for HMRC at the time and they rightly take a very dim view of staff that make even trivial errors. (I thought the account was closed)

As has been said I would now ignore such a trivial amount.

Although if it comes from a source without other entries on the return, you could cover yourself for the price of a second class stamp from any enquiries. e.g. getting a phone call asking was any source of income missed on the return? Anything else? The hope would be to find something like you doing cash-in-hand work!

However this is extremely unlikely for such a minimal amount.

Wuz

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#109997

Postby XFool » January 12th, 2018, 8:06 pm

Wuzwine wrote:Hi Xfool,

If you pay £6 the charity get £7.50. If you are a 40% payer this £7.50 is multiplied by 125% giving £10 when rounded up. This gives you the higher rate relief.

Thanks for that explanation, Wuzwine. But... how would the charity know I was a going to be a 40% taxpayer when, at the time, even I didn't know I was going to be?

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#110316

Postby Wuzwine » January 13th, 2018, 9:53 pm

Xfool,

No,they wouldn't know and wouldn't even know whether you were a taxpayer or not for confidentiality reasons.

However the HMRC know and that's why you get the relief. If you weren't a taxpayer in the good old pre Gift aid days and you made a Deed of Covenant to the charity, they would have received £7.50 but we would have asked you for the £1.50.

At that time it was one of the few times there was no de minimus limit, the thinking being that the Inland Revenue couldn't contribute money to organisations, often churches but also relatives even children of the donor. I am long retired but I believe there is a de minimus now. I remember having to explain why the Revenue spent more on postage (never mind admin. costs) for trivial amounts. As a last resort I said "complain to your MP as Parliament makes the rules, I just try to enforce them". I don't remember anyone ever following it up, and unless their MP was a Treasury Minster they would have little chance of changing the status quo!

I often had to follow some daft rules, such as not accepting photocopies of some Revenue forms, and usually did, probably too often for my sanity!

Regards,

Wuz

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111073

Postby XFool » January 16th, 2018, 6:37 pm

Thanks for your explanations wuzine. Just one more query. ;)

So, if I were to report this, I'd just report the (90p VAT inclusive) £6 entrance fee as the Gift Aid donation? I am used to normal Gift Aid donations where it is just a simple straightforward deduction from pension.

I'm thinking I will just let things stand for now and possibly write HMRC a letter later on, explaining all the facts, plus my other very small overpayment in the previous years return.

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111320

Postby Wuzwine » January 17th, 2018, 2:59 pm

Xfool

Yes, you just enter the net amount you have paid £6.

The amount is grossed up and appropriate relief calculated when the Tax Calculation is done by either your purchased or the HMRC's software.

Regards,

Wuz

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111323

Postby PinkDalek » January 17th, 2018, 3:08 pm

Wuzwine wrote:Xfool

Yes, you just enter the net amount you have paid £6.

The amount is grossed up and appropriate relief calculated when the Tax Calculation is done by either your purchased or the HMRC's software.

Regards,

Wuz


I’ve found this thread very hard to understand but the £6 is the entrance fee and not a Gift Aided donation.

Did the OP donate an additional £10 or not?

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111340

Postby melonfool » January 17th, 2018, 3:49 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
Wuzwine wrote:Xfool

Yes, you just enter the net amount you have paid £6.

The amount is grossed up and appropriate relief calculated when the Tax Calculation is done by either your purchased or the HMRC's software.

Regards,

Wuz


I’ve found this thread very hard to understand but the £6 is the entrance fee and not a Gift Aided donation.

Did the OP donate an additional £10 or not?


Many many organisations (charitable) now ask you to 'waive your entry fee in return for a donation of the same amount' so they can claim gift aid on it. It's very common.

On another matter, I've been trying to pay the Revenue about £1,300 I owe them for four years now, they seem unable to work out how to accept it, so I really wouldn't worry about £1!

Mel

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111347

Postby PinkDalek » January 17th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Yes but how does £6 paid become a Gift Aided donation of £10 or £15.10 ????

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111529

Postby melonfool » January 18th, 2018, 10:07 am

PinkDalek wrote:Yes but how does £6 paid become a Gift Aided donation of £10 or £15.10 ????


It was my original belief that the OP gave *another* £10 as a gift, and has simply forgotten about it.

But Wuzwine up thread seemed to think the £6 -> £10 could work. Maybe we should all give him £6. I'd be happy with £9 back, he can keep £1..... ;)

Mel

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111544

Postby GoSeigen » January 18th, 2018, 10:33 am

melonfool wrote:
Many many organisations (charitable) now ask you to 'waive your entry fee in return for a donation of the same amount' so they can claim gift aid on it. It's very common.
Mel


Really? Can you give a prominent example? That's extremely dodgy.

GS

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111546

Postby melonfool » January 18th, 2018, 10:38 am

GoSeigen wrote:
melonfool wrote:
Many many organisations (charitable) now ask you to 'waive your entry fee in return for a donation of the same amount' so they can claim gift aid on it. It's very common.
Mel


Really? Can you give a prominent example? That's extremely dodgy.

GS


I have no idea if it is 'extremely dodgy' but I have been asked more than once - the one I can recall was the Eden Project where our entry fee was converted to enable it to be Gift Aid. I think Bletchley Park did the same thing.

Mel

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111547

Postby melonfool » January 18th, 2018, 10:41 am

melonfool wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
melonfool wrote:
Many many organisations (charitable) now ask you to 'waive your entry fee in return for a donation of the same amount' so they can claim gift aid on it. It's very common.
Mel


Really? Can you give a prominent example? That's extremely dodgy.

GS


I have no idea if it is 'extremely dodgy' but I have been asked more than once - the one I can recall was the Eden Project where our entry fee was converted to enable it to be Gift Aid. I think Bletchley Park did the same thing.

Mel


Here you go: http://www.edenproject.com/visit/buy-tickets

"Advance Annual Pass*: up to 10% off full ticket price
Your entry fee will be treated as a donation to our charity on which we may also be able to claim Gift Aid. You'll also get year-round entry to Eden. Buy at least one day before your planned visit."

We didn't buy a day before, we bought it on the day, so they maybe twisted their own 'rules' there, don't know.

Mel

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111572

Postby DrBunsenHoneydew » January 18th, 2018, 11:40 am

For Gift Aid to be claimed on admissions, one of the following two conditions must be met:

1) The museum can request a voluntary donation worth 10% or more than the normal admission price. This must be clearly identified to the visitor as a voluntary donation and signs should show both amounts. So a general ticket could be £10, but a gift-aid ticket must be a minimum of £11, which is worth £13.75 to the charity after the tax claim.

Or

2) A donation is made in return for the right of admission to the property for a 12 month period at all times when the property is open to the public, excluding five days per year permitted for special events. This can mean either unlimited free entry or reduced price entry for all visits during the 12 month period. In the latter case, only the fee paid on the first visit qualifies for Gift Aid.

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111624

Postby PinkDalek » January 18th, 2018, 2:14 pm

Examples from HMRC:

The ‘admission charge plus 10%’ option

3.39.10 This option applies where a member of the public could purchase a right of admission, but instead chooses to make a gift that is at least 10% more than the admission charge, and in return for that donation the charity grants the equivalent admission to view charity property. The whole amount received from a donor is treated as a donation for Gift Aid purposes, not just the additional 10%.

3.39.11 Any period of admission from one day to less than 12 months can be included within this option as long as members of the public could purchase an equivalent right of admission.

Example
A charity may sell a summer season ticket for a period of 3 months for £30; if the same right of admission is granted to an individual donating an additional 10% (that is, paying £33 in total), the whole £33 can qualify for Gift Aid.

3.39.12 For payments to qualify for Gift Aid, each visitor must be made aware at the time they’re asked for payment that they can choose to pay the admission charge or make a voluntary donation of 10% more than the admission charge and receive the same right of admission. If the visitor is denied the right to choose to pay the standard admission charge, then payment of the extra 10% is not a freely given gift and can’t be a qualifying donation. Charities must clearly advertise their normal admission charges and make it absolutely clear to all visitors that they will be admitted upon payment of the lower admission charge if they choose not to make an additional 10% voluntary donation.


Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 3-gift-aid

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111657

Postby GoSeigen » January 18th, 2018, 3:47 pm

melonfool wrote:
melonfool wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:
Really? Can you give a prominent example? That's extremely dodgy.

GS


I have no idea if it is 'extremely dodgy' but I have been asked more than once - the one I can recall was the Eden Project where our entry fee was converted to enable it to be Gift Aid. I think Bletchley Park did the same thing.

Mel


Here you go: http://www.edenproject.com/visit/buy-tickets

"Advance Annual Pass*: up to 10% off full ticket price
Your entry fee will be treated as a donation to our charity on which we may also be able to claim Gift Aid. You'll also get year-round entry to Eden. Buy at least one day before your planned visit."

We didn't buy a day before, we bought it on the day, so they maybe twisted their own 'rules' there, don't know.

Mel


Thanks Mel (and DrBunsenHoneydew). Looks like you were buying an annual pass, not a single entry, so they are taking advantage of the rules about annual free entry. Seems fair enough to me.

GS

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Re: Trivial mistake on return

#111769

Postby XFool » January 18th, 2018, 10:09 pm

DrBunsenHoneydew wrote:For Gift Aid to be claimed on admissions, one of the following two conditions must be met:

1) The museum can request a voluntary donation worth 10% or more than the normal admission price. This must be clearly identified to the visitor as a voluntary donation and signs should show both amounts. So a general ticket could be £10, but a gift-aid ticket must be a minimum of £11, which is worth £13.75 to the charity after the tax claim.

Or

2) A donation is made in return for the right of admission to the property for a 12 month period at all times when the property is open to the public, excluding five days per year permitted for special events. This can mean either unlimited free entry or reduced price entry for all visits during the 12 month period. In the latter case, only the fee paid on the first visit qualifies for Gift Aid.

Neither was the case with my ticket. It was a single entry Adult 60+ ticket of £6 inclusive of 90p VAT (I can't even make that work...) to an exhibition in the Natural History Museum. Referred to on the ticket as a "Jerwood Event (A)"

Gift Aid is shown as added at 0.00 giving a total payment of £6.00 + £0.00 = £6.00

The second (bottom) half of the ticket shows:
Jerwood Event (A), Grp(?) A, Qty 1, £15.1x - this is now indistinct.
Gift Aid Grp(?) A, Qty 1, £10

XFool's name (incorrect)
XFool's address (correct)

"Thank you for your Gift Aid donation received today. Your donation will support our valuable work. Gift Aid donors must pay an amount of income Tax and/or Capital Gains Tax equal to...etc"

Wording not entirely clear now. Mainly because even originally the text overran the sides of the ticket.


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